BUT...
Which part of first or second place is "getting away with it" ?
Kaci got away with obvious foul in the WPM final?! (plus similar case Capito)
- Thread starter djyadj
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Which part of first or second place is "getting away with it" ?
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
I don't like bad behavior from competitors but when you have dedicated your life to an activity and are now playing for the highest stakes possible, yeah, I can understand why their emotions get the best of them.
tomatoshooter
Well-known member
Thanks for specifying when it happened. It looks like the ball moved back where it was and he gained no competitive advantage. I can't get upset about it.Well, it was 3-3 when Kaci touched 8 ball with his finger tip and he won the rack to lead 4-3. If it was foul BIH, Ko would win rack and lead 4-3.
Would not have made much difference to end result.
Anyway, it is nonsense to expect and trust someone to call foul on himself (especially when there is ref) when playing in final where winner gets record $40K (big increase from $25K last year) and runner up gets $20K
It is like the scene in one of last episodes of the overrated Breaking Bad.
Walt asks Ed "The Disappearer"- "My money over there. What happens to it then? What if I ask you to give it to my family? Would you do it?"
Don’t kid yourself, it doesn’t always happen in golf either. You just don’t ever hear about it unless the player calls the infraction on himself.
Certainly, this is as matter of opinion, and mine is yes, even more so because pro pool remains a sport trying to escape a very negative image that has tended to separate it from sponsorship dollars over the years.
Pro golf has it right. If you are caught violating the rules (whether you knew it or not and whether it was intentional or not) and sign an incorrect scorecard, you are disqualified from the event. This tends to ensure that players are vigilant about knowing and sticking to the rules.
Even if it's true, and it probably isn't, this discussion is about how things should be handled in pro pool.
I'm not saying that 96% didn't claim it, merely suggesting that the figure probably doesn't accurately represent the percentage that will call a foul on themselves.
I am reminded of how comedienne Gracie Allen, George Burns' comedic partner in the 1940s and 1950's, was curious what percentage of homes in her neighborhood had telephones. She concluded that everybody had one ---- because everyone she phoned said they had one.
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I think it is entirely possible that you didnt see that vid where it was not zoomed-in/slowed down as in the full video you can easily see Kacis INSTANT reaction to that touch. There is snowballs chance in hell that Kaci didnt know he touched that ball. As a player I made such foul several times in my 25+ years pool career and especially with fingers/nails touch you simply KNOW right away, that realization of foul is always like a lightning bolt through your body and thats exactly how Kaci reacted when he did it..
Yes, I didn't see that video and the reaction. But in general, people assume that a player is always aware of small fouls. I know I've fouled myself without knowing and at other times I have maybe fouled but I was not sure.
If Kaci knew he fouled, he should have called it on himself. Obviously the ref missed it.
I think it's rather interesting that there exists a double-standard when it comes to calling these technicality fouls. Slightly touching an OB ball (playing all ball fouls) even though the OB doesn't get displaced from its original position is almost universally deemed a foul with absolutely no wiggle room whatsoever. However, in this thread, touching a moving CB or placing your hands in a pocket while the CB is still moving even though there is no way the CB would scratch should NOT be called a foul.
Not sure I see a big difference between the two cases.
I think it's rather interesting that there exists a double-standard when it comes to calling these technicality fouls. Slightly touching an OB ball (playing all ball fouls) even though the OB doesn't get displaced from its original position is almost universally deemed a foul with absolutely no wiggle room whatsoever. However, in this thread, touching a moving CB or placing your hands in a pocket while the CB is still moving even though there is no way the CB would scratch should NOT be called a foul.
Not sure I see a big difference between the two cases.
I can't find the foul in question.
snooker too. but i think the fact that they have a lot of cameras and eyes on them all the time helps to make the right thing.. pool players go from a tournament with one foul rule to a tournament with another foul rule, all the time.
I know you are at many pro events.
However, when playing, with adrenaline it is hard to know if you touched a ball or just think you did. I only expect for players to call obvious fouls (refs are there for that reason).
What's worse then not calling a maybe foul on yourself? Calling a foul on yourself mistakenly!
As he is preparing to shoot the 1-ball at 46:25, the tip of the stick touches the cue ball.
Point well taken.I know you are at many pro events.
However, when playing, with adrenaline it is hard to know if you touched a ball or just think you did. I only expect for players to call obvious fouls (refs are there for that reason).
What's worse then not calling a maybe foul on yourself? Calling a foul on yourself mistakenly!
At a WPBA event (at Soaring Eagle Casino if memory serves), Karen Corr met Jeanette Lee in the semifinal.
At one point in the match, Karen Corr was over the cue ball and, in her opinion, the cue ball moved slightly but she had not touched it. She approached Jeanette and told her as much, offering that a video replay might clarify things. Jeanette said "if you say you didn't touch it, that's good enough for me" and Karen continued.
I feel strongly that Kaci would have known that he touched the object ball, but if he thought it was only that he might have, he could have asked for a videotape replay.
I'm no doctor and won't opine on how adrenaline affects one's sense of touch but I do know that an adrenaline rush helps INCREASE, not DECREASE one's concentration, seemingly making it more likely they'd know whether they had touched a ball in a situation like this one.
while you might be right, i think it’s entirely impossible not to notice because when we are at the table we are ultra focused on every tiny thing
I've played pool quite a while and I can't recall a single instance where a tournament promoter/director informed the players that the expectation for their tournament was that ALL players would call fouls on themselves. I'm sure it's happened BUT the question remains - is pool a gentleman's game like golf or is it not? I have no idea if it is. I have no problem with that being the expectation but not because the moralists demand it. In a refereed match I have ZERO problem with players not calling fouls on themselves if that action has not been demanded by the promoter, and there's someone in the arena getting paid to make those calls!
We had a horrible call in a championship softball game over the weekend where a clearly foul ball was ruled fair. The opposing team's coach saw that the ball was clearly foul but during the "discussion" with the umpire she said nothing, nor did I expect her too as it wasn't her responsibility.
The question here is not one of integrity but of expectation!
We had a horrible call in a championship softball game over the weekend where a clearly foul ball was ruled fair. The opposing team's coach saw that the ball was clearly foul but during the "discussion" with the umpire she said nothing, nor did I expect her too as it wasn't her responsibility.
The question here is not one of integrity but of expectation!