Not in 9 ball with their girly man breaks. You got to be kidding. I think Efren is over rated in 9 ball - just like Parica.
Keith Would have Crushed Them
- Thread starter DrawtheRock
- Start date
Not in 9 ball with their girly man breaks. You got to be kidding. I think Efren is over rated in 9 ball - just like Parica.
I really likee the play I have seen out of most of the people mentioned. I think Keith will be best known for his form and attitude. He had an amazing stroke with a form unique to himself. I wish we had more of that today. There is basically filipino and other. I much prefer any off the filipino strokes. Then the attitude. You have to love that. That is part of the complete player. So, yes, IMO, Keith was great! Was he acting in the Color of Money? If pool didn't havee to take a back seat to fame, I would have much preferred he and Tom Cruise switch roles!
Efren, well he peaked in my era, so I truely see him as the best in the world. I wish we could see Efren and Mosconi line up in straight pool or what ever. . .Prime vs. Prime. The games would be different, but both amazing. Som back to the OP. . .No, Efren is the best ever!<sacasim>
Jose Patrica. . .Yea, he is good, but will not make US history because of the points mentioned.
So, the question is. . .who will be the next Mr. Amazing? SVB? Corey? Mika? They have to start beating an older Efren to get the crown.
Efren, well he peaked in my era, so I truely see him as the best in the world. I wish we could see Efren and Mosconi line up in straight pool or what ever. . .Prime vs. Prime. The games would be different, but both amazing. Som back to the OP. . .No, Efren is the best ever!<sacasim>
Jose Patrica. . .Yea, he is good, but will not make US history because of the points mentioned.
So, the question is. . .who will be the next Mr. Amazing? SVB? Corey? Mika? They have to start beating an older Efren to get the crown.
Well, now I'm sick of eating popcorn and wondering, How good did Jimmy Mataya really play????????????
YES! Parica had been here a few years before to play in a Straight Pool Championship in New York, but he was yet to show his true "stuff" to the entire US pool community. He played one money game with Mizerak on that trip and the Miz tried to give him 50 to 150. No sale! He then came back within a year of Efren's victory at Red's and beat a host of top players (Little David, Kim and Earl among them) for over a hundred grand, giving many of them weight. It all happened in Houston too. Technically Efren was the true leader of the invasion.
You might want to read my post #295 where I said that Efren was not the best 9-Ball player in the world. He did suffer from a weak break that many players exploited. It took him years to win another tournament.
As far as your statement about Parica, you are either uninformed or just plain don't know how good he was. THE REST OF THE WORLD DUCKED THIS MAN AT 9-BALL AND TEN BALL for a good fifteen years! And that's the way it was, whether you chose to believe it or not. I was there (several times) when he walked in a room full of champions and laid down the gauntlet. And no one stepped up. For good reason too. Imagine someone who shoots like Orcollo at his best (and can do it all day and all night) with more heart than any pool player ever. Only Buddy (and Alex) had as big a heart. And even he knew where to draw the line. Parica never barred anyone, anywhere at anytime! PERIOD! Buddy included.
Parica is the best money player I ever saw, ANYWHERE. Buddy's second.
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Buddy and Effie
Jay, I am totally in agreement on the "extenuating circumstances" that you referred to in Efren's 10 ball match with Buddy. I was there at Red's too, and watched Cesar Morales (Efren) dismantle the field like it was a joke. I bet on Wade Crane getting 3 games on the wire in the finals! Wasnt close. Now, since this is a Keith thread, I had half of Keith's bet when he played 9 ball on the bar table against Efren at Red's, in the beginning of the tourn. Keith won the first set and then Efren must have caromed in a jillion balls and won the next one or two sets, I cant remember which. We either broke even and quit or came one set behind and quit. At that same time he offered the reigning rotation champion, Allen Hopkins the fifteen ball. Efren's loss to Buddy made no sense to me either. Being of a natually suspicious nature, I always think about the crew that Efren was with, about 15 Philipinos. They won, like you said, about 50k, but they were cheap creeps and I think Efren was only getting about 10 percent, if that. Effie didnt manage as well as Parica, who would have never played for less than 50%. Once Jose got winners in Texas, when he first arrived in the USA, he fired all his backers and bet and won all the money himself. Buddy and Effie never played any more 10 ball and I dont think anybody else played Effie any 10 ball, even, for the next 20 yrs.
the Beard
One more point that I should mention. Both players betting their own cheese, even Efren admits that Parica was the favorite over him.
Jay, I am totally in agreement on the "extenuating circumstances" that you referred to in Efren's 10 ball match with Buddy. I was there at Red's too, and watched Cesar Morales (Efren) dismantle the field like it was a joke. I bet on Wade Crane getting 3 games on the wire in the finals! Wasnt close. Now, since this is a Keith thread, I had half of Keith's bet when he played 9 ball on the bar table against Efren at Red's, in the beginning of the tourn. Keith won the first set and then Efren must have caromed in a jillion balls and won the next one or two sets, I cant remember which. We either broke even and quit or came one set behind and quit. At that same time he offered the reigning rotation champion, Allen Hopkins the fifteen ball. Efren's loss to Buddy made no sense to me either. Being of a natually suspicious nature, I always think about the crew that Efren was with, about 15 Philipinos. They won, like you said, about 50k, but they were cheap creeps and I think Efren was only getting about 10 percent, if that. Effie didnt manage as well as Parica, who would have never played for less than 50%. Once Jose got winners in Texas, when he first arrived in the USA, he fired all his backers and bet and won all the money himself. Buddy and Effie never played any more 10 ball and I dont think anybody else played Effie any 10 ball, even, for the next 20 yrs.
the Beard
One more point that I should mention. Both players betting their own cheese, even Efren admits that Parica was the favorite over him.
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Thanks for the confirmation Freddie. My condolences on being in with Keith that trip. I made a few missteps with him myself. But the good ones more than made up for it. You are very right about one thing. Even when Efren was struggling to win a 9-Ball tourney, NO ONE would consider playing him even up Ten Ball. He and Parica clearly ruled the roost over here for years. They were the ones who made the American players finally realize that we weren't the only real pool players on the planet. In fact Efren became the new Lassiter. When he played all the top players would grab a seat and sweat it. They wanted to learn from him. :smile:
The one thing that's getting to me about all this feuding over which old school players would run over which current players is that noone considers that maybe neither would run over the other.
With the skills both groups have or had, I think there would be a lot of close, exciting matchups that would run on for days with no huge advantage. Maybe Keith and Alex would break even?
With the skills both groups have or had, I think there would be a lot of close, exciting matchups that would run on for days with no huge advantage. Maybe Keith and Alex would break even?
