KInd Attn All and Mr Jforney36

9ballrun said:
Just an idea, why not use your other paypal account to pay him that way paypal has a way to track it and see. Then the claim could be lifted without either one worrying.
Dont kill me it just sounded like an easy way to me


PAYPAL IS SMARTER THAN THAT. IF THE SAME ACCOUNT IS LISTED WITH DIFFERENT E-MAIL ADDRESS' IT MERGES THE ACCOUNTS. HE'D HAVE TO BE USING A SEPERATE CHECKING ACCOUNT AS WELL, AND MOVE HIS FUNDS MANUALLY TO THE OTHER CHECKING ACCOUNT.

THAT IS THE WAY TO GO, IF HE HAS TWO SEPERATE CHECKING ACCOUNTS THOUGH.
 
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I was not doulbe dipping.. You know was well as I tell people if there are interested please paypal me at ********. I was asked to hold the cue for a few days by one azer and the asked to hold it for a few more and the next thing I knew I had 2 payments.. I just called paypal they told me that they can't lift the claim until they here from the buyer. I don't understand. *****ing here won't get him his money back. The only thing that will get him his money back is to lift the claim. If he dont lift the claim he can't get the money back.. If he lifts the claim and I dont pay him he's still out.. Problem being I have the money how and can't seem to give it back..
 
From Paypals site: "It is important that you wait until you are 100% satisfied that your concerns have been addressed before closing the dispute. A closed dispute cannot be reopened or escalated to a Paypal claim".
 
JFORNEY36 said:
Look at the History of both Azer's.. I posted about 50 posts back that I refunded an Azer $1100 for my lathe because I couldn't return home from business and ship in a timely matter so I refunded him.. I don't have a history of this here. Ya'll don't think somethings fishy here Monto has been a posting azer for 7 days.. I have been here for 4 years and have 12 Itrades with some great azer's.. What gives...

I'M PRETTY SURE I WAS THE ONE THAT EVENTUALLY BOUGHT THAT LATHE..... I CAN'T REMEMBER HAVING ANY PROBLEMS WITH OUR DEAL.
 
JFORNEY36 said:
I was not doulbe dipping.. You know was well as I tell people if there are interested please paypal me at ********. I was asked to hold the cue for a few days by one azer and the asked to hold it for a few more and the next thing I knew I had 2 payments.. I just called paypal they told me that they can't lift the claim until they here from the buyer. I don't understand. *****ing here won't get him his money back. The only thing that will get him his money back is to lift the claim. If he dont lift the claim he can't get the money back.. If he lifts the claim and I dont pay him he's still out.. Problem being I have the money how and can't seem to give it back..

GO GET A MOEY ORDER, OR DO A WESTERN UNION TRANSFER TO HIM, AND THE PROBLEM GOES AWAY.

HELL, IF YOU WANT A MIDDLE MAN, SEND PAYMENT TO ME, AND I'LL PAY HIM THROUGH PAYPAL SO YOU HAVE A RECORD OF THE TRANSACTIONS. I CAN'T MAKE IT EASIER THAN THAT.

IF I WAS THE BUYER/PAYER, I WOULDN'T LIFT THE CLAIM EITHER. IF HE LIFTS IT, IT CAN'T BE REFILED
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
GO GET A MOEY ORDER, OR DO A WESTERN UNION TRANSFER TO HIM, AND THE PROBLEM GOES AWAY.

HELL, IF YOU WANT A MIDDLE MAN, SEND PAYMENT TO ME, AND I'LL PAY HIM THROUGH PAYPAL SO YOU HAVE A RECORD OF THE TRANSACTIONS. I CAN'T MAKE IT EASIER THAN THAT.

IF I WAS THE BUYER/PAYER, I WOULDN'T LIFT THE CLAIM EITHER. IF HE LIFTS IT, IT CAN'T BE REFILED
Excellent idea and I agree.

BVal
 
Monto P2 said:

I JUST OFFERED TO ACT AS A MIDDLE MAN TO GET YOU YOUR MONEY WITHOUT LIFTING THE CLAIM.

IF HE SENDS ME MONEY, ONCE I HAVE IT YOU LIFT THE CLAIM TO UNLOCK HIS PAYPAL ACCOUNT. ONCE HE VERIFIES IT'S UNLOCKED, I'LL SEND YOU PAYPAL PAYMENT FOR WHATEVER AMOUNT HE SENDS ME?

HOW DOES THAT SOUND?
 
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What we have here is a Catch-22. Logic says that Monto P2 could potentially lose $780 if he drops his claim for it and gets nothing. that is.... if JFORNEY36 does not make good on his word to refund him the $780 money through Paypal. If that were to happen, JFORNEY36 would be in a world of Red here on AZBilliards and no one would likely do business with him again in the foreseeable future. On the other hand, there is a possibility that JFORNEY would make good on his word and everything could work it's way out and everybody would be happy and all this would be over. There also is the logical outcome that if Monto P2 does not drop his claim, he will not see any money as JFORNEY will be in a position to leave the Paypal account in limbo unless Paypal does some creative accounting and finds the money elsewhere to pay him, which isn't likely without a court order allowing them access to another of JFORNEY's bank accounts. The cost in lawyer fees alone would well exceed the claim and coming from overseas would be a "Non-event". JFORNEY did a bad thing when he moved the funds for the 2 deposits from his Paypal, but that is over and done with. As I see it, Monto doesn't have much leverage unless he has some mafia type here in the states to do his bidding. The courts and legal community consider this civil, not criminal, since JFORNEY admits he owes the money and states he will re-pay it. Lastly, the scenario where Monto refuses to remove the claim, he is pretty much guaranteed not to recover anything monetarily, and the other scenario, where he releases the claim, the probability of being refunded through Paypal goes up exponentially. Remember zero chance to any possible chance is considered exponential. I think, I would go with the exponential chance, because the one with zero chance is exactly that. Using this logic, you have nothing to lose by dropping the claim since you have nothing to gain if you don't. And JFORNEY should consider apologizing for pulling both funds out of Paypal. That was wrong and you know it. Maybe you were hedging against a possible paypal claim, but it still was not the ethical thing to do. Paypal makes people do strange things... like pull money back to your bank account as soon as it is received knowing it takes 3-4 days to get deposited sometimes.

Bottom line. Monto... You can't lose anything you don't already have or are not going to get with your current actions. So remove the claim, and document it. Give it a few days because I know for a fact Paypal works in mysterious ways and takes their sweet ass time moving money when it is moving away from Paypal instead iof into it. JFORNEY, document and refund him the money as soon as you can, staying in communication with each other to get this resolved. This can be resolved. You just both need take care of business.
 
our_auctionguy said:
Bottom line. Monto... You can't lose anything you don't already have or are not going to get with your current actions. So remove the claim, and document it. Give it a few days because I know for a fact Paypal works in mysterious ways and takes their sweet ass time moving money when it is moving away from Paypal instead iof into it. JFORNEY, document and refund him the money as soon as you can, staying in communication with each other to get this resolved. This can be resolved. You just both need take care of business.

I CAME OUT WITH A SOLUTION IN THE PREVIOUS POST, LET'S SEE WHAT THEY THINK.
 
I am by no means taking any sides. I feel forney made a mistake and is trying to honor it. The problem lies with the claim. If forney returns monto his money by other means and monto does not lift the claim he will be able to double dip forney, and that what forney is afraid of. I think we are forgetting about the $200 some odd dollars that are not accounted for that was sent by western union. forney said he never got it and Monto has never addressed what happened to it, or if he ever checked with Western Union. Once again just a neutral party.
 
our_auctionguy said:
What we have here is a Catch-22. Logic says that Monto P2 could potentially lose $780 if he drops his claim for it and gets nothing. that is.... if JFORNEY36 does not make good on his word to refund him the $780 money through Paypal. If that were to happen, JFORNEY36 would be in a world of Red here on AZBilliards and no one would likely do business with him again in the foreseeable future. On the other hand, there is a possibility that JFORNEY would make good on his word and everything could work it's way out and everybody would be happy and all this would be over. There also is the logical outcome that if Monto P2 does not drop his claim, he will not see any money as JFORNEY will be in a position to leave the Paypal account in limbo unless Paypal does some creative accounting and finds the money elsewhere to pay him, which isn't likely without a court order allowing them access to another of JFORNEY's bank accounts. The cost in lawyer fees alone would well exceed the claim and coming from overseas would be a "Non-event". JFORNEY did a bad thing when he moved the funds for the 2 deposits from his Paypal, but that is over and done with. As I see it, Monto doesn't have much leverage unless he has some mafia type here in the states to do his bidding. The courts and legal community consider this civil, not criminal, since JFORNEY admits he owes the money and states he will re-pay it. Lastly, the scenario where Monto refuses to remove the claim, he is pretty much guaranteed not to recover anything monetarily, and the other scenario, where he releases the claim, the probability of being refunded through Paypal goes up exponentially. Remember zero chance to any possible chance is considered exponential. I think, I would go with the exponential chance, because the one with zero chance is exactly that. Using this logic, you have nothing to lose by dropping the claim since you have nothing to gain if you don't. And JFORNEY should consider apologizing for pulling both funds out of Paypal. That was wrong and you know it. Maybe you were hedging against a possible paypal claim, but it still was not the ethical thing to do. Paypal makes people do strange things... like pull money back to your bank account as soon as it is received knowing it takes 3-4 days to get deposited sometimes.

Bottom line. Monto... You can't lose anything you don't already have or are not going to get with your current actions. So remove the claim, and document it. Give it a few days because I know for a fact Paypal works in mysterious ways and takes their sweet ass time moving money when it is moving away from Paypal instead iof into it. JFORNEY, document and refund him the money as soon as you can, staying in communication with each other to get this resolved. This can be resolved. You just both need take care of business.

Well said, essentially what I said more verbose.
 
I Agree

FAST_N_LOOSE said:
I JUST OFFERED TO ACT AS A MIDDLE MAN TO GET YOU YOUR MONEY WITHOUT LIFTING THE CLAIM.

IF HE SENDS ME MONEY, ONCE I HAVE IT YOU LIFT THE CLAIM TO UNLOCK HIS PAYPAL ACCOUNT. ONCE HE VERIFIES IT'S UNLOCKED, I'LL SEND YOU PAYPAL PAYMENT FOR WHATEVER AMOUNT HE SENDS ME?

HOW DOES THAT SOUND?
I AGREE:( :mad: :confused:
 
not that it means anything, but i have delt with jforney and the deal went perfect. if it was me (and i realize its not) i would lift the claim and take his word that he will transfer back. just my .02.
 
FAST_N_LOOSE said:
I JUST OFFERED TO ACT AS A MIDDLE MAN TO GET YOU YOUR MONEY WITHOUT LIFTING THE CLAIM.

IF HE SENDS ME MONEY, ONCE I HAVE IT YOU LIFT THE CLAIM TO UNLOCK HIS PAYPAL ACCOUNT. ONCE HE VERIFIES IT'S UNLOCKED, I'LL SEND YOU PAYPAL PAYMET FOR WHATEVER HE SENDS ME?

HOW DOES THAT SOUND?


JFORNEY's account may be frozen to do any FRESH business, but it's not frozen to where he cannot issue a refund to an individual that has opened a DISPUTE or CLAIM....JFORNEY may not have the funds available in his paypal account to issue a refund, but he does have the ability to transfer funds to his paypal account to resolve any DISPUTES or CLAIMS....trust me on this point paypal would not get in the way of a refund just because a dispute or claim has been opened....They want this resolved asap......
 
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.

Probelm is I told Monto P2 the day this happened that I would return his funds I am right now transfering funds to my account. It'll take 3-4 days and I will send it to you.. The same day he files a claim and paypal stops the transfer.. I never told him I wouldn't pay him.. I talked to paypal again about using a middle man. I have a fellow azer that is willing to pay the $780 from his account and I'll pay him but paypal says this won't protect me because the claim is against my account. Monto can still claim i didn't pay him.. I even tried to add a credit card to me account to pay him and it won't even let me do this.
I'm at a lose..
 
What?

You say you were not double dipping but it is exactly what you did. WOW.
You say the next thing you know you have two payments. The next thing you know after that - you transferred both of them out of your paypal account knowing that one needed to be returned. WOW again. You are upset with him because you took money from him that you knew you should not have in the first place. If you are willing to do that what makes anything else you say trustworthy?

BVal

JFORNEY36 said:
I was not doulbe dipping.. You know was well as I tell people if there are interested please paypal me at ********. I was asked to hold the cue for a few days by one azer and the asked to hold it for a few more and the next thing I knew I had 2 payments.. I just called paypal they told me that they can't lift the claim until they here from the buyer. I don't understand. *****ing here won't get him his money back. The only thing that will get him his money back is to lift the claim. If he dont lift the claim he can't get the money back.. If he lifts the claim and I dont pay him he's still out.. Problem being I have the money how and can't seem to give it back..
 
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Sounds like Paypal makes out on mutiple fees.

FAST_N_LOOSE said:
I JUST OFFERED TO ACT AS A MIDDLE MAN TO GET YOU YOUR MONEY WITHOUT LIFTING THE CLAIM.

IF HE SENDS ME MONEY, ONCE I HAVE IT YOU LIFT THE CLAIM TO UNLOCK HIS PAYPAL ACCOUNT. ONCE HE VERIFIES IT'S UNLOCKED, I'LL SEND YOU PAYPAL PAYMENT FOR WHATEVER AMOUNT HE SENDS ME?

HOW DOES THAT SOUND?
I thought about this, however, the remittance needs to be between the two of them. He Paypals, you, so now Paypla deducts a fees for that transaction. You paypal the remainder?? (780-fee) and Paypal takes both the fee and the crrency exchange fees. By the time this is done, Poor Monto will end up with the equivalent of about $675. Boy you guys love Paypal.:D :D :D :D
 
I Agree

FAST_N_LOOSE said:
THAT'S ONE SIDE..... JFORNEY, WHAT DO YOU THINK?
you give money to fast n loose.i will lift claim if claim lifts he pays me and if not he pays u back
 
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