Knowledge in pool (long post)

I've come to believe that some of the most important attributes a player can have is playing without tension in their arm and not overthinking/second guessing themselves. I think this comes a little more naturally for some people than others and as a result you get people pot from the lamp shades with seemingly less effort than the rest of us.

When I started playing, a friend of mine was like this. Right from the start he had a relaxed stroke, nice follow through and didn't second guess himself. By way of comparison, my arm was full of tension and I always, always second guessed myself. Took me a long time to drill these habits out of me, and I still struggle at times.

If one of these players can assimilate all of the knowledge as well while maintaining their approach, they become
 
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Chopdoc said:
A Ferrari and a 26 year old girlfriend. The gut will remain, but you won't care. :thumbup:



.
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That will relieve you of that pesky overloaded bank account too, then one day you'll wake up and all of it will be gone.....except for the gut. =)



Neil
 
I call them "See Ball, Make Ball" players.
They have tremendous pocketing ability, seemingly from almost when they first start playing.
The rotation games
are almost too easy for them, all they need to do is be able to hit the ball and they can pocket it, so there is no real need to learn much more than some basic patterns and they run racks.
I saw one guy who played center ball every shot, shot 3 speeds , soft medium and hard and ran rack after rack.
It was absolutely disgusting {but I sure wished I could do it}.
Nooooooo, I gotta be smart and put spin on the ball to make better position, alas it also causes me to miss a lot.
 
Straightpool_99 said:
Having played yet another "potting idiot savant" and BARELY scraping out a win, I wonder how much of a role knowledge really plays in pool? You see these guys over and over, doing everything wrong, bumping into balls when unnecessary, going into clusters too hard, creating new clusters, playing the wrong position (on the wrong side of the ball) as a rule rather than the exception etc. Not to mention safety play, kicking at warp speed and coming up safe over and over, accidentally leaving you safe because they don't care to properly play position etc. Somehow these people can actually string racks sometimes and a couple of them can actually do it quite often, how, I do not know?

Once these guys get to certain skill level, you can't really beat them with knowledge in an ordinary length matchup(with the possible exception of one pocket). In a short race in 9 ball, 8 ball, or even a game of straight pool it often comes down to luck if you can defeat them or not. Basically you need to run a lot of racks from nowhere. I don't care how good you are, that takes at least a little luck sometimes.

Lets take a straightpool matchup as an example: I make the opening break, leaving him near frozen to the rail with a razor thin cut, that he makes and blasts into the pack, the cueball jumping up. Then he proceeds to make the most amazing 50+ ball run I've ever seen, mindlessly blasting into clusters, getting stuck, then kicking/banking/jumping out of trouble, over and over. Then he misses and leaves me frozen to a ball with a fairly open table, no shots to shoot, not even a decent kick. So I play a safe, doubling him up on most of the balls, with the exception of a long bank, which he makes. It would possibly have been better to take 3 fouls, but the table was not breaking well, and I remembered the first break... He won the game to 100 points in nothing flat. I came to the table 4 times with practically nothing whatsoever to shoot at, him freezing me accidentally to a ball twice. I shot an extremely difficult shot, and managed to run a few from there but that was it. I wasn't angry about it as much as I was genuinly impressed with the insane things he was pulling off.

It's just not practical to race to 15 in rotation pool or play to 500 points in straightpool to have the knowledge/luck/psycho potting factors even out a bit. Still the potting talent will triumph after all. I'd take that guy over any bookworm in a matchup.

I guess there is a reason why the older guys in the US switch to one pocket when they start losing their vision a bit. Over here they switch to 3-cushion, which has a lot of knowledge in it (nobody plays one pocket). I guess it's a smart move for people like me, too, who don't have the extreme talent needed for those insane pots. I mean it takes a lot of talent to play well in 3-cushion, but at least you can level the playing field a little bit with some knowledge, and you get an advantage from having an actual stroke. In pool, all you need is a straight "poke" and know how to get to center table. If your poke is straight enough, that's pretty much all you need to win a LOT of matches.

I see these books for sale about "esoteric" concepts in pool, and I wonder if I really get what the author is trying to say or not? Or more importantly, even if I did, would it actually help me win? "Sayings" in pool are not as clear as some claim. Even extremely simple things like "following through" can frequently be misunderstood. by some people. At least I have had discussions over exactly what that means with other players, and nobody seems to agree fully.

I have bought some books on pool (and tons of videos), and possibly the only book that really helped me was "Banking with the Beard". (Diagrams, and accurate speed/spin definitions, that still needed tweaking). All in all, though I'd say that in pool, (potting)talent is what matters. And if you haven't got talent, the thing that is most likely to help you is one on one coaching, with a guy physically moving you about, pointing and saying "Do this!", then demonstrating it himself if you still don't get it.

rant over
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I'll sum it all up for you real short. When YOU are at the table, and it's YOUR turn to shoot, NO ONE in the world can beat you in THAT game....unless you MISS YOUR SHOT, and let them back to the table, in which case you invited the loss by how ever it comes about....because YOUR skills at playing haven't caught up with the way you THINK you play.
 
realkingcobra said:
I'll sum it all up for you real short. When YOU are at the table, and it's YOUR turn to shoot, NO ONE in the world can beat you in THAT game....unless you MISS YOUR SHOT, and let them back to the table, in which case you invited the loss by how ever it comes about....because YOUR skills at playing haven't caught up with the way you THINK you play.
Click to expand...

I know I suck. If I shot straighter, I'd win more. That's a short but accurate summary.
 
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Specific Instruction

I certainly feel your pain. It amazes me that some of the people that Ive run across teach concepts that have no meaning or specific direction but they do and some of their follower pretend to understand. Pool is simple, Make shot, use speed and spin and control those things and through playing a discipline develop your strategy for it. Anything other than concrete teachable knowledge to me is hogwash and a waste of time.

Straightpool_99 said:
Having played yet another "potting idiot savant" and BARELY scraping out a win, I wonder how much of a role knowledge really plays in pool? You see these guys over and over, doing everything wrong, bumping into balls when unnecessary, going into clusters too hard, creating new clusters, playing the wrong position (on the wrong side of the ball) as a rule rather than the exception etc. Not to mention safety play, kicking at warp speed and coming up safe over and over, accidentally leaving you safe because they don't care to properly play position etc. Somehow these people can actually string racks sometimes and a couple of them can actually do it quite often, how, I do not know?

Once these guys get to certain skill level, you can't really beat them with knowledge in an ordinary length matchup(with the possible exception of one pocket). In a short race in 9 ball, 8 ball, or even a game of straight pool it often comes down to luck if you can defeat them or not. Basically you need to run a lot of racks from nowhere. I don't care how good you are, that takes at least a little luck sometimes.

Lets take a straightpool matchup as an example: I make the opening break, leaving him near frozen to the rail with a razor thin cut, that he makes and blasts into the pack, the cueball jumping up. Then he proceeds to make the most amazing 50+ ball run I've ever seen, mindlessly blasting into clusters, getting stuck, then kicking/banking/jumping out of trouble, over and over. Then he misses and leaves me frozen to a ball with a fairly open table, no shots to shoot, not even a decent kick. So I play a safe, doubling him up on most of the balls, with the exception of a long bank, which he makes. It would possibly have been better to take 3 fouls, but the table was not breaking well, and I remembered the first break... He won the game to 100 points in nothing flat. I came to the table 4 times with practically nothing whatsoever to shoot at, him freezing me accidentally to a ball twice. I shot an extremely difficult shot, and managed to run a few from there but that was it. I wasn't angry about it as much as I was genuinly impressed with the insane things he was pulling off.

It's just not practical to race to 15 in rotation pool or play to 500 points in straightpool to have the knowledge/luck/psycho potting factors even out a bit. Still the potting talent will triumph after all. I'd take that guy over any bookworm in a matchup.

I guess there is a reason why the older guys in the US switch to one pocket when they start losing their vision a bit. Over here they switch to 3-cushion, which has a lot of knowledge in it (nobody plays one pocket). I guess it's a smart move for people like me, too, who don't have the extreme talent needed for those insane pots. I mean it takes a lot of talent to play well in 3-cushion, but at least you can level the playing field a little bit with some knowledge, and you get an advantage from having an actual stroke. In pool, all you need is a straight "poke" and know how to get to center table. If your poke is straight enough, that's pretty much all you need to win a LOT of matches.

I see these books for sale about "esoteric" concepts in pool, and I wonder if I really get what the author is trying to say or not? Or more importantly, even if I did, would it actually help me win? "Sayings" in pool are not as clear as some claim. Even extremely simple things like "following through" can frequently be misunderstood. by some people. At least I have had discussions over exactly what that means with other players, and nobody seems to agree fully.

I have bought some books on pool (and tons of videos), and possibly the only book that really helped me was "Banking with the Beard". (Diagrams, and accurate speed/spin definitions, that still needed tweaking). All in all, though I'd say that in pool, (potting)talent is what matters. And if you haven't got talent, the thing that is most likely to help you is one on one coaching, with a guy physically moving you about, pointing and saying "Do this!", then demonstrating it himself if you still don't get it.

rant over
Click to expand...
 
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