L D question

jackpot

jackpot

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
On most if not all LD shafts the ferrules are shorter than 1" which used to be
standard. It is my understanding that reducing the weight at the tip end is
the main factor in reducing squirt. So does that mean that the ferrule material
is heavier than the wood in the shaft. If it is lighter, then it seems that a longer
ferrule would produce less squirt. When Meucci's first came out the ferrules
were very light and 1 1/4" long and had a long taper. They had far less squirt
than the other cues at the time. So is it correct to assume that the ferrules on
most LD shafts are heavier than the wood and they are shorter to reduce
weight.
jack
 
jackpot said:
On most if not all LD shafts the ferrules are shorter than 1" which used to be
standard. It is my understanding that reducing the weight at the tip end is
the main factor in reducing squirt. So does that mean that the ferrule material
is heavier than the wood in the shaft. If it is lighter, then it seems that a longer
ferrule would produce less squirt. When Meucci's first came out the ferrules
were very light and 1 1/4" long and had a long taper. They had far less squirt
than the other cues at the time. So is it correct to assume that the ferrules on
most LD shafts are heavier than the wood and they are shorter to reduce
weight.
jack
Click to expand...

Here is a page that shows weights of various ferrule making material. From what I can make out, it looks like the maple is lighter than the ferrule materials.

http://www.dzcues.com/ferrules_4.html

FWIW, I've gotten used to the carbon fiber Becue shaft that doesn't have a ferrule. I thought it would be "weird" at first, but I don't even notice that it doesn't have one. With the solid snow-white shaft it is really easy to see the black tip.
 
jackpot said:
On most if not all LD shafts the ferrules are shorter than 1" which used to be
standard. It is my understanding that reducing the weight at the tip end is
the main factor in reducing squirt. So does that mean that the ferrule material
is heavier than the wood in the shaft. If it is lighter, then it seems that a longer
ferrule would produce less squirt. When Meucci's first came out the ferrules
were very light and 1 1/4" long and had a long taper. They had far less squirt
than the other cues at the time. So is it correct to assume that the ferrules on
most LD shafts are heavier than the wood and they are shorter to reduce
weight.
jack
Click to expand...

The shaft is designed to give instead of the cue ball getting kicked to the side .
Kind A light using wet using a wet noodle .
 
jackpot said:
On most if not all LD shafts the ferrules are shorter than 1" which used to be

standard. It is my understanding that reducing the weight at the tip end is

the main factor in reducing squirt. So does that mean that the ferrule material

is heavier than the wood in the shaft. If it is lighter, then it seems that a longer

ferrule would produce less squirt. When Meucci's first came out the ferrules

were very light and 1 1/4" long and had a long taper. They had far less squirt

than the other cues at the time. So is it correct to assume that the ferrules on

most LD shafts are heavier than the wood and they are shorter to reduce

weight.

jack
Click to expand...



Old school ferrule materials are definitely heavier than wood. Especially ivory!

I believe there are some materials in modern use that may be lighter than wood. But generally all the phenolic and plastic substances are denser than wood. Don't forget that the thickness of the ferrule material is a huge factor as well, not just the length.

I think you're thinking accurately about this.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
What happened to the no ferrule craze

why no Balsa Wood ferrule

I personally could never shoot with a Meucci so i think there is more to pool than light ferrules and no delection

I just decided to hit center ball anyway because it seems easier

then I play less bad than usual
 
deanoc said:
What happened to the no ferrule craze

why no Balsa Wood ferrule

I personally could never shoot with a Meucci so i think there is more to pool than light ferrules and no delection

I just decided to hit center ball anyway because it seems easier

then I play less bad than usual
Click to expand...

Balsa wood I think would be way too brittle for a ferrule, the thing still has to hold up to impact, some off-center. It not only needs to have good strength head on but also handle off-center hits and mis-cues. Plus you can't have it deform too much or you would end up with some weird results.
 
PhilosopherKing said:
Has anyone tried drilling holes in the front end of an ld shaft or using a sort of latticed ferrule?
Click to expand...

Here we go. https://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=463154&page=2
My shaft has 7" deep hole 8 mm in diameter but with carbon fiber tube inside. No ferrule, just T-shape fiber pad sitting in the tube, amazing aged hard maple = very happy owner. Last Saturday I tuned the taper making the first 15" of the shaft just a little bit thinner to make it livelier because it was good but extremely stiff. Now it plays just fantastic. Still very stiff but now I'm completely satisfied with the taper and I feel the CB and all the shots better. When it comes to the deflection I can compare it with Pred. 314/2 and Jacoby Hybrid Edge and it is pretty close, definitely not more but feels better for me.;)
BTW so as I'm from Ukraine and the most popular billiard game here is piramid where the balls are much bigger and heavier do you know the fact that most piramid pros play with the ferruleless cues with fiber pads instead and all saying because of the feeling and connection with the ball? But of course the shafts are hornbeam which is more densed than maple but you know most of the shots are made with much more power than it is used in pool...
 
Last edited:
HawaiianEye said:
Here is a page that shows weights of various ferrule making material. From what I can make out, it looks like the maple is lighter than the ferrule materials..............
Click to expand...

Guess that explains the OB's laminated ferrules. When I had my OB shaft I had so many people asking about it. Where I am from if it's not a Schon or McDermott most are not familiar with it.
 
KMRUNOUT said:
Old school ferrule materials are definitely heavier than wood. Especially ivory!

I believe there are some materials in modern use that may be lighter than wood. But generally all the phenolic and plastic substances are denser than wood. Don't forget that the thickness of the ferrule material is a huge factor as well, not just the length.

I think you're thinking accurately about this.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
Click to expand...

I used to have a Keith Kue that came with 2 shafts both with an Elk Antler ferrules. I had a 30" OB shaft I used on it so I never used his shafts. I am sure they hit like a ton with a lot of deflection but the Elk had a natural marbling to it so they did look sharp.
 
Has anyone tried drilling holes in the front end of an ld shaft or using a sort of latticed ferrule
Click to expand...

Many of us drill our shafts anywhere from 3" to 7" deep. I use a capped ferule (made from melamine rod) instead of a T ferule.

There's some company that claimed a patent on hollow shafts even though people had done it in the past. So most of us can't advertise that feature. :rolleyes:

smt
 
I meant drill holes laterally through the already hollow front-end.
Click to expand...

At some point you have to leave enough material in the front so it does not crush when the cue ball is stroked with some speed. :)

I'm not an engineer, but my sense is that there is more gain (strength vs mass) in wood by reducing the wall thick (thin)-ness rather than swiss-cheesing it. So those of us drilling axially kind of drill as much diameter out until we feel the strength (resistance to cracking in straight grain wood) would be compromised.

Those using carbon fiber tubes can get thinner with more strength; but depending on the shaft taper it can introduce a stress riser at the end of the tube.

smt
 
Ssonerai said:
At some point you have to leave enough material in the front so it does not crush when the cue ball is stroked with some speed. :)

I'm not an engineer, but my sense is that there is more gain (strength vs mass) in wood by reducing the wall thick (thin)-ness rather than swiss-cheesing it. So those of us drilling axially kind of drill as much diameter out until we feel the strength (resistance to cracking in straight grain wood) would be compromised.

Those using carbon fiber tubes can get thinner with more strength; but depending on the shaft taper it can introduce a stress riser at the end of the tube.
smt
Click to expand...

In fact so as my cue is 4" longer (31+31) when I've built it my main concern was to not lose the desired stiffness. It came out just great, thanks to the woods and the construction. The middle of the cue is incredibly stiff.
When it comes to the deflection I played all these years before with solid maple shafts with standard length and pretty heavy ferrules so to get used to the deflection is not a big problem for me. One of the shots I like for testing the deflection is the one we had in the Artistic pool program when I used to participate in WAPC more than 10 years ago. "Simple" rail cut shot when the CB is on the spot and OB frozen to the short rail on the middle diamond. With my previous set up it was that kind of a feel shot but now it feels like cheating just aim&shoot. I remember how good Mike Massey was in this shot but he was one of the best in most of the shots anyway:thumbup:
 
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