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Lack of interest for Bonus Ball
- Thread starter Jesters
- Start date
Somewhere in this thread do they mention if this sweating it live costs money, and how much?
That could easily explain the difference between standing room only vs. ghost town.
If they're pricing seats at like 50 bucks, I probably wouldn't bother.
Maybe one time only, to see some specific favorite players, and then watch from home the rest of the year.
And that's only if I was already in the area, obviously not gonna fly out to LV to watch.
If I'm in the area, and it's free, or like 10-15 bucks? Hell yeah I'll watch that every week.
At price points like that, there's no excuse not to fill the stands, it's a straight up marketing failure.
That could easily explain the difference between standing room only vs. ghost town.
If they're pricing seats at like 50 bucks, I probably wouldn't bother.
Maybe one time only, to see some specific favorite players, and then watch from home the rest of the year.
And that's only if I was already in the area, obviously not gonna fly out to LV to watch.
If I'm in the area, and it's free, or like 10-15 bucks? Hell yeah I'll watch that every week.
At price points like that, there's no excuse not to fill the stands, it's a straight up marketing failure.
I like that idea a lot
The idea has merit for sure, but then there would be the home team advantage on equipment. Of course, this happens in all professional competitions when it comes to home team advantage.
Having the BB stage in Vegas is not going to bear fruit for the BB unless they capitalize on the recordings of each match.
Let's see how that pans out. :embarrassed2:
I've already done that shtick, make pool better myself, when I first began to follow the professional pool tournament trail. My enthusiasm diminished after I learned how much loyalty there is in the pool world.
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You are correct, America was built on competition. That is what free enterprise is all about. But America was also built on the premise of free speech. If you think that something sucks, you have the right to say so, and so do I, and so does JAM.
That said, even under the constructs of a free enterprise system, some methods of doing business are clearly better than others - for the business owners themselves and for the industry in which they are involved as a whole.
A simple example might be a paper production company who "gives back" to the industry by planting new forests each year...or the NFL hosting training camps for kids.
The law might not require these companies to do these things, but they do it anyway, for the sake of everyone involved.
The distinct "disconnect' between the entity that is Bonus Ball and the already established pool industry, as well as the pool playing public at large, almost to the point of blatant disregard for the people to whom they eventually hope to sell the merits of 'their game', is no less than suicide by negative popularity. The 'Brittany Spears Sydrome', in which (by her own doing) the public eye is saturated with negative press to the point that most people cant stand the sight of her anymore.
It is true that Bonus Ball technically didnt break any 'laws' by scheduling their matches as they did, but at the same time, there is no particular aspect of the BB league business model that absolutely required them to do what they did with their schedule. In other words, during the actual inception of the entire Bonus Ball concept, it should have been very clear, early on, that every other major event would present scheduling conflicts for players who already attended the other events, and in some cases, also threaten the existence of other events altogether.
In my opinion, the 'conflicts' whether real or theoretical, havent been dealt with in a way that is beneficial to anyone in the end. I hope that eventually they are.
I do too. I've always thought that "city-oriented" teams were a brilliant idea, exactly for the reasons he stated, but, not playing a game that 99% of Americans have never even heard of.I like that idea a lot
Remember what happened when they tried to get everyone in the U.S. to switch to the metric system? LOL
I decided to listen again to the interview with Larry Chiborak that Daryl Smith did for Pool Time (it can be found in the archives about half way through the May 26th show at dsmithpool.com).
It struck me as I listened to Larry that he expresses himself well, a little folksy, lacking in hyperbole and bluster but without the passion that one might expect from someone talking about a labor of love. This is not a criticism but rather an observation that might explain the apparent lack of screaming promotion that some have commented on. Simply put, Larry strikes me as a doer who believes that actions speak louder than words. He is not one to brag about what will be but rather will stand on the results of what is. I will paraphrase some of the points that were discussed and add my own opinion where I feel appropriate. In either case I offer this to add to the overall picture and to stimulate thought.
This “newcomer” from Canada, thought by some to be coming to America to step on the toes of long time promoters of the game has actually been in the pool business for over 30 years. His background is in manufacturing and retail under the Dufferin games retail banner. He started thinking about the need for a new game 1986. From then, until now, it went through several metamorphoses to what it is today; after input from players, professional and others, and fans.
According to his comments in the interview, the idea was to make a viewer friendly game. It was felt that fans did not generally appreciate some of the traditional games for a variety of reasons (In 9 ball one player makes 7 balls and then bobbles the 8, the opponent makes the duck 8 and easy 9 and wins). Additionally, many of what was supposed to be viewer friendly games on TV were too predictable. The professional player had long since advanced to a point where you could predict with some certainty after the break if they would run out. Even players were not always watching traditional pool because the result was too predictable. In my own opinion I think that the long races has alleviated the predictability but they may not be attractive to the casual fan who does not want to spend the time.
Bonus Ball was created to be a game that would be viewer friendly. The outcome would not be apparent after the break. Runs outs would not be automatic. It would challenge the player to have all the skills. To succeed one must be able to make big shots, be skilled at banking etc.; even playing safeties is more difficult. All of this adds to viewer excitement. The outcome is not easily predicted until the end.
The interviewer asked Chiborak about his vision and long term goals, specifically if television was a goal. His reply was telling to me. He was, of course, interested in Television but felt that he should put his money where his mouth is and create the product (as he has done) and then show them. Again, he does not seem to be by nature a hype-artist.
They, the interviewers, asked him about his business plan and then deflected any real answer by steering the question toward merchandising. I would have loved to hear his answer in respect of the business plan; unfortunately, the interviewers were their own worst enemies.
They brought up the scheduling and it was indicated that Dave McCall (hope I’ve spelled his name right) was charged with setting up the schedule and did, in Larry’s opinion, a very good job with a difficult mandate. The overriding principle would be to have a consistent schedule that could be communicated to the fans so that those fans could, with confidence, decide what matches they would follow.
The schedule needed to be 22 weeks plus playoffs with matches each Thursday and Friday nights plus double headers on Saturday and Sunday. To work around other tournaments would be difficult if not impossible as dropping a full week of matches would disrupt the consistency of the schedule and potentially be a source of confusion for the BB fan trying to follow.
In an attempt to satisfy, as many as possible without disrupting the principle of having a consistent schedule, they sought input from the players and then allowed the addition of alternates to fill in if some had a strong desire to play in a particular event. In my view, from a business perspective, this was/is a major concession. After all, BB is a business and to succeed their fans must grow and continue to support it. To disrupt their schedule and/or to allow their top players to be replaced by alternates is obviously counter to their chances to succeed and, again, I view what they have done so far as a major concession.
Mr. Chiborak was quite clear in stating that he does not want to deliberately offend or hurt anyone. I believe that is true. In light of what he has stated as to his vision for this league along with the concessions offered that could be counter to that vision, I think that he has already went farther than might be prudent.
It is a fun game to watch and I will leave it with these last few thoughts. I will be watching some of the games in the future and have bookmarked some games that feature Toronto and of course those that have New York involved. I hope the freezing problem is totally resolved by then and, of course, that the commercials are history. The good news from my selfish perspective is that I do not see any conflicts between my desire to watch the major events that I have historically been drawn to, either going to see them live or buying the PPV with BB.
Last word.......Nathan, please do not end the broadcast when Earl and Jeremy are still having a conversation about the match.
It struck me as I listened to Larry that he expresses himself well, a little folksy, lacking in hyperbole and bluster but without the passion that one might expect from someone talking about a labor of love. This is not a criticism but rather an observation that might explain the apparent lack of screaming promotion that some have commented on. Simply put, Larry strikes me as a doer who believes that actions speak louder than words. He is not one to brag about what will be but rather will stand on the results of what is. I will paraphrase some of the points that were discussed and add my own opinion where I feel appropriate. In either case I offer this to add to the overall picture and to stimulate thought.
This “newcomer” from Canada, thought by some to be coming to America to step on the toes of long time promoters of the game has actually been in the pool business for over 30 years. His background is in manufacturing and retail under the Dufferin games retail banner. He started thinking about the need for a new game 1986. From then, until now, it went through several metamorphoses to what it is today; after input from players, professional and others, and fans.
According to his comments in the interview, the idea was to make a viewer friendly game. It was felt that fans did not generally appreciate some of the traditional games for a variety of reasons (In 9 ball one player makes 7 balls and then bobbles the 8, the opponent makes the duck 8 and easy 9 and wins). Additionally, many of what was supposed to be viewer friendly games on TV were too predictable. The professional player had long since advanced to a point where you could predict with some certainty after the break if they would run out. Even players were not always watching traditional pool because the result was too predictable. In my own opinion I think that the long races has alleviated the predictability but they may not be attractive to the casual fan who does not want to spend the time.
Bonus Ball was created to be a game that would be viewer friendly. The outcome would not be apparent after the break. Runs outs would not be automatic. It would challenge the player to have all the skills. To succeed one must be able to make big shots, be skilled at banking etc.; even playing safeties is more difficult. All of this adds to viewer excitement. The outcome is not easily predicted until the end.
The interviewer asked Chiborak about his vision and long term goals, specifically if television was a goal. His reply was telling to me. He was, of course, interested in Television but felt that he should put his money where his mouth is and create the product (as he has done) and then show them. Again, he does not seem to be by nature a hype-artist.
They, the interviewers, asked him about his business plan and then deflected any real answer by steering the question toward merchandising. I would have loved to hear his answer in respect of the business plan; unfortunately, the interviewers were their own worst enemies.
They brought up the scheduling and it was indicated that Dave McCall (hope I’ve spelled his name right) was charged with setting up the schedule and did, in Larry’s opinion, a very good job with a difficult mandate. The overriding principle would be to have a consistent schedule that could be communicated to the fans so that those fans could, with confidence, decide what matches they would follow.
The schedule needed to be 22 weeks plus playoffs with matches each Thursday and Friday nights plus double headers on Saturday and Sunday. To work around other tournaments would be difficult if not impossible as dropping a full week of matches would disrupt the consistency of the schedule and potentially be a source of confusion for the BB fan trying to follow.
In an attempt to satisfy, as many as possible without disrupting the principle of having a consistent schedule, they sought input from the players and then allowed the addition of alternates to fill in if some had a strong desire to play in a particular event. In my view, from a business perspective, this was/is a major concession. After all, BB is a business and to succeed their fans must grow and continue to support it. To disrupt their schedule and/or to allow their top players to be replaced by alternates is obviously counter to their chances to succeed and, again, I view what they have done so far as a major concession.
Mr. Chiborak was quite clear in stating that he does not want to deliberately offend or hurt anyone. I believe that is true. In light of what he has stated as to his vision for this league along with the concessions offered that could be counter to that vision, I think that he has already went farther than might be prudent.
It is a fun game to watch and I will leave it with these last few thoughts. I will be watching some of the games in the future and have bookmarked some games that feature Toronto and of course those that have New York involved. I hope the freezing problem is totally resolved by then and, of course, that the commercials are history. The good news from my selfish perspective is that I do not see any conflicts between my desire to watch the major events that I have historically been drawn to, either going to see them live or buying the PPV with BB.
Last word.......Nathan, please do not end the broadcast when Earl and Jeremy are still having a conversation about the match.
Yeah, I recall those days since I was a wee younger in grade school when the change was in the works.
And we are no better for not making the move when we could have. It's a system that is 100 x's easier to learn and understand.
I'm betting the average person (no tradesman's) has no clue to put the following in order, from smallest to largest. My wife could not do this with a gun to her head, and she's a pretty smart lady. And those that can, still gotta think for a few seconds to do it
5/8, 3/4, 3/8, 9/16, 7/8, 1/8, 5/16
Thus, by comparison, BB has got to be easier to "learn" lol
Nor even speak when they are "speaking" to one another..... I mean, really, is there any commentary that needs to go over the top of that. Sometimes a good "color commentator" needs to know when to hush, and let the action tell the story. This is NOT radio
Soft Launch
Soft Launch?
Yeah that is funny. 10 people in the stands and 6 of them are with the players.
Does someone have a link to the Earl beat down???
Heard something about Jeremy Jones and I would like to see what actually happened.
Soft Launch?
Yeah that is funny. 10 people in the stands and 6 of them are with the players.
Does someone have a link to the Earl beat down???
Heard something about Jeremy Jones and I would like to see what actually happened.
Hey Mark.
Whats up Mark ? Have you watched BB, I like it. I have watched several matches, And I find it more entertaining than other games. So much negativity in this forum. Seems like everyone would be rooting for BB to succeed. I haven't paid to watch any streams, but I am going to watch some BB. What do you think ?
Gary
Soft Launch?
Yeah that is funny. 10 people in the stands and 6 of them are with the players.
Does someone have a link to the Earl beat down???
Heard something about Jeremy Jones and I would like to see what actually happened.
Whats up Mark ? Have you watched BB, I like it. I have watched several matches, And I find it more entertaining than other games. So much negativity in this forum. Seems like everyone would be rooting for BB to succeed. I haven't paid to watch any streams, but I am going to watch some BB. What do you think ?
Gary
Jam, would you quit with the These Canadians this and These Canadians that in every thread that you post in.
It makes you look like more of a drama Queen than you already are. When did you suddenly decide to wake up and take a stand against the scheduling conflict. They've been posting about it for weeks now if not months.
Its one Canadian ok. You're not being invaded by Canadian Pro Pool crushing zombies.
Your American Pro players have done the damage to their careers and futures for some time now. This is just another nail in their coffin. No one twisted their arms
and forced them to play BB.
Man is Master of his own Destiny and American Pro Players exemplify this 100 fold.
They want to listen to Larry Chib and Archer, thats their business. Not the first time that they have listened and followed the wrong Piper.
It was an ill conceived idea from one person. His place of birth has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Larry has a pocket full of cash and a bag full of promises. It gives Pro Players big boners and they will follow Larry like a hobo to a hot dog until it runs out.
It makes you look like more of a drama Queen than you already are. When did you suddenly decide to wake up and take a stand against the scheduling conflict. They've been posting about it for weeks now if not months.
Its one Canadian ok. You're not being invaded by Canadian Pro Pool crushing zombies.
Your American Pro players have done the damage to their careers and futures for some time now. This is just another nail in their coffin. No one twisted their arms
and forced them to play BB.
Man is Master of his own Destiny and American Pro Players exemplify this 100 fold.
They want to listen to Larry Chib and Archer, thats their business. Not the first time that they have listened and followed the wrong Piper.
It was an ill conceived idea from one person. His place of birth has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Larry has a pocket full of cash and a bag full of promises. It gives Pro Players big boners and they will follow Larry like a hobo to a hot dog until it runs out.
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