The question asked wasn't about low-deflection vs. regular shafts. It was about laminated vs. regular shafts. Laminating doesn't make shafts low-deflection.
pj
chgo
laminated shaft vs reg maple shaft
- Thread starter christopher3222
- Start date
pj
chgo
I don't see many laminated shafts with high deflection ...
Try the old Tiger X shaft (original, before the Ultra). It threw more than any conventional one piece shaft I've ever used.
I also have a Rick Howard custom that has been put on the Mythbuster that beat a Meucci and a Predator for lowest deflection. And, it has regular maple shafts. Rick must be drilling them out.....
Not to hijack the thread, but on a related topic I'm trying to think of veteran players who switched from maple to laminated. I believe Mika switched from a Capone to a Mezz, am I right that the Capone was maple and the Mezz is laminated?
Can anybody think of other examples? Does Bustamante play with a predator shaft?
Seems like whatever people get used to is what they play with. When a guy like Earl switches cues he makes sure the shaft meets his specifications and plays as close as possible to what he was using before.
Just random thoughts on my part.
Can anybody think of other examples? Does Bustamante play with a predator shaft?
Seems like whatever people get used to is what they play with. When a guy like Earl switches cues he makes sure the shaft meets his specifications and plays as close as possible to what he was using before.
Just random thoughts on my part.
It could spin the ball like a top, too! Masses and swerves were pretty fun with that shaft. But, it wasn't "point and shoot" like the new Predators or OB shafts.
It's more likely a laminated shaft can be made to feel and play the same way from batch to batch over a long period of time. I've played with many Predators over the years and they were pretty much interchangeable. Same with OB and Tiger's shafts.
Some laminated shafts are better than others. Personally, I prefer less glue and more wood as being a better, more lively feel.
Conventional maple is hit or miss. A lot of the quality depends on the cue maker's ability to find and recognize good stock, good grain qualities and how the wood was handled in the stacking and drying process.
Laminated wood takes some of these variables away.
Chris
I can tell you in the case of Tiger, their maple stock is first rate and they only use 5 pieces. The quality appearance of their shafts and consistent feel is due to the high quality maple they use.
Patrick - I have a demo program going if you'd like to try one, you're welcome. It's only on the new 11.75 mm Pro X right now. If this works out, i'll try it on the new Ultra LD which is 12.75 mm.
From a playing standpoint, sometimes getting new equipment sparks renewed interest in practicing. After I got my OB Classic, I was consistently pocketing more difficult shots and it really charged me up and made we want to play the game more.
Chris
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The massé is not harder with an LD shaft than with a normal shaft. In both cases one has to be very deliberate with the tip end of the cue when stroking the shot.
As far as I know, Mika plays with a WD700 shaft which is not laminated and not hybrid. I think Mezz playing shafts are not laminated by the way. Some of them are hybrid (carbon insert).
I believe Bustamante does not use a predator shaft to play. Even Thorsten, who used to play with a custom Vollmer, has admitted that although sponsored by Lucasi hybrid, he plays with the regular deflection version of the shaft (not the low squirt one) because he is a traditional deflection kind of guy.
A good example might be SVB since he was playing with a Joss shaft for many years and switched to a Cuetec R360, which is laminated.
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..................my answer still stands
the shaft deflection part. maybe the consistently part too. i'm betting if you put 10 predator shafts and 10 (pick a cue maker) shafts and the predators would play closer to the same
doncole66us
Registered
R360 Shaft
The R360 is not laminated.
The R360 is not laminated.
I'll bite on #3 if you had 2 shafts 1 regular maple and the other laminated. With the same wood, same taper, same ferrule, tip, joint, yadda yadda yadda. The laminated would deflect less. The laminated shafts are lighter due to the glue being lighter than the maple. And lighter shaft= less deflection. I believe this is why you dont see many laminated shafts ever reach 4 oz's.
On a side note to the gentleman that could not masse with his laminated or ld shaft. I would look at your tip, that has been the only reason i have ever had any issue with any masse.
Laminated vs Reg maple
I agree , I just started getting used to this Z2 after almost throwing it in the trash a couple of times. I have lost the ability to make a few banks I used to make by coming in at a slight deflection induced angle.
But the overall ability to pocket balls and play position and still stay close to the center of the cueball is worth it 10 fold.
The 11 3/4 mm tip has forced me to pay more attention to the way I line up and keep my mechanics correct.
I guess I just started getting lazy as I got older because when I started using this shaft it was evident immediately I was not lining up properly.
I actually believe that even being 61 years old and sick I am going to improve with this cue above the best I ever played, I just need to put in some practice time with it.
I agree , I just started getting used to this Z2 after almost throwing it in the trash a couple of times. I have lost the ability to make a few banks I used to make by coming in at a slight deflection induced angle.
But the overall ability to pocket balls and play position and still stay close to the center of the cueball is worth it 10 fold.
The 11 3/4 mm tip has forced me to pay more attention to the way I line up and keep my mechanics correct.
I guess I just started getting lazy as I got older because when I started using this shaft it was evident immediately I was not lining up properly.
I actually believe that even being 61 years old and sick I am going to improve with this cue above the best I ever played, I just need to put in some practice time with it.
In general, I agree; however, many low-squirt (AKA, "low cue-ball deflection", AKA "LD") shafts are laminated. Regardless, I agree with you that it is the reduced "endmass", and not the laminations, that reduce squirt.
Low-squirt shafts have both advantages and disadvantages for different people. FYI, here's one of the advantages listed on the site, concerning a radial laminate:
Many low-squirt shafts are constructed as a radial laminate (long wedge-shaped sections glued together and then turned down on a lathe), so they are more likely to hold their straightness over time (i.e., they are less likely to warp). If the wood laminates are chosen carefully (e.g., with a certain grain orientations), this might help improve strength. Also, this could help with consistency from one shaft to another of the same model. Some people think the radial consistency also helps create a more consistent "hit," regardless of the orientation (twist angle) of the cue, but this effect is questionable. Some people think radial consistency also helps create more consistent squirt, but that effect is also questionable (see my February '08 BD article).
Regards,
Dave
doncole66us
Registered
I have to correct this as the R360 is a three piece cut maple laminated LD shaft. But it does not have a fiberglass coating.
SOUL
great cue makers don't give you Predators unless you insist
the feel, the sound, the touch.... SOUL
dings
After playing for over 15 years with maple, I now play with the OB-2 and think it is the jam sandwich. I will never go back to a non-LD shaft. However, the one thing that really bugs me about laminated shafts is that they are much more prone to little dings and dents than conventional maple ... at least compared to my Schon shafts. The pores on those shafts seem so much tighter and wood just seems harder. However, after years with the OB when trying to go back to the Schon with side english, the squirt is just so apparent. I just take the time to make sure the OBs are taken care of and burnished/sealed more often.
After playing for over 15 years with maple, I now play with the OB-2 and think it is the jam sandwich. I will never go back to a non-LD shaft. However, the one thing that really bugs me about laminated shafts is that they are much more prone to little dings and dents than conventional maple ... at least compared to my Schon shafts. The pores on those shafts seem so much tighter and wood just seems harder. However, after years with the OB when trying to go back to the Schon with side english, the squirt is just so apparent. I just take the time to make sure the OBs are taken care of and burnished/sealed more often.