Layered tips glazing over

mnShooter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I play with a 314 shaft and a layered tip with masters chalk. I've tried numerous different layered tips and all seem to glaze over after a few days of use. Are there any layered tips that don't need constant picking or scuffing? I'd like to have one that doesn't require all that maintenance. I'm even considering switching to a triangle or similar regular tip because I'm sick of the chalk not sticking. I'd rather stay with a layered tip as I'm afraid I won't get the same consistency and spin with a regular tip but it might be worth it.

I've tried Moori's (Quick, Med, Soft), Sniper's, Everests, Kamui Black and Brown and all of them have the same problem. It seems the glue that holds the layers together seems to come to the surface and create a smooth surface that won't hold chalk. Moori's seem to be the worst.
 

zy112

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've had this problem in the past. I liked the Wizard tips. I experienced it the worst with Moori's. Ultimately, I ended up switching to Triangles though.
 

manwon

"WARLOCK 1"
Silver Member
I play with a 314 shaft and a layered tip with masters chalk. I've tried numerous different layered tips and all seem to glaze over after a few days of use. Are there any layered tips that don't need constant picking or scuffing? I'd like to have one that doesn't require all that maintenance. I'm even considering switching to a triangle or similar regular tip because I'm sick of the chalk not sticking. I'd rather stay with a layered tip as I'm afraid I won't get the same consistency and spin with a regular tip but it might be worth it.

I've tried Moori's (Quick, Med, Soft), Sniper's, Everests, Kamui Black and Brown and all of them have the same problem. It seems the glue that holds the layers together seems to come to the surface and create a smooth surface that won't hold chalk. Moori's seem to be the worst.



The main reason you are experiencing this problem is where you play and the equipment you play on. This problem occurs due to dirty equipment, IE, the cloth, and the balls. The dirt from the cloth is picked up by the balls which makes them dirty, and this dirt is transfered to your cue tip from contact with the cue ball.

If you play on clean cloth, with clean balls this problem will almost completely go away. I own a pool room, my equipment is kept very very clean and this problem is not a factor here, however, when I use play in bars it use to be a very common problem even with non-layered tips.

JIMO
 

softshot

Simplify
Silver Member
you will get a ton of responses from those hanging on the nuts of layered $20+ tips..

we call those guys fish

get a good triangle .. have it put on by someone who knows what they are doing..

and never worry about it again..

yea y'betcha dat's da way to go hey....
 
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softshot

Simplify
Silver Member
where we live tips have to do it all..

we have 100 degrees at 99% humidity in august

we have 0% humidity at -20 degrees it February

they don't factor Minnesota extremes into the glue formula

so stop buying tips with glue in them...you have no idea how they will react... and neither do the people who make them...

the same temp extremes exist in Wisconsin... and they came up with the world famous McDermott never warp shaft....not because they wanted to... but because they HAD to..


y'betcha... hey
 

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
All tips require a little maintenance, from time to time, mn. The Everest tip in your Predator is about as good as it gets so try not to worry so much about it. Try using a Willard shaper once or twice a week to freshen it up. A couple of twists, back and forth, and you're good to go.
Do not use a pick, especially on a layered tip. If used incorrectly a pick can cause a layer to de-laminate. Picks are dubious, at best, when used on any tip. :)
 

UPlayLucky

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Tips

All tips eventually glaze over, you'll need to scuff any tip regardless of the type. Some are better than others but they all do it.
 

ShootingArts

Smorg is giving St Peter the 7!
Gold Member
Silver Member
minimum damage

I wipe the chalk off of my tip after playing, on a paper towel, napkin, or the inside of my blue jeans near the cuff. I don't want whatever dirt and spills are on the carpet on my cue tip. Then before I play I take one of the low crowned BRAD tools and roll it around on the cue tip. Since I am not cutting into the leather or cutting parts off of it rolling dents into the surface does very little damage. I may need to do it again in a long session but I use plain Masters chalk with no problems.

I'm using layered tips now but my game favors a milk dud, or my game has been built playing with the milk dud. Either way, layered tips are coming off of all of my shafts and milk duds going back on.

Hu
 

softshot

Simplify
Silver Member
Try using a Willard shaper once or twice a week to freshen it up. A couple of twists, back and forth, and you're good to go.

I shape my tips.... ummmm NEVER...

get a good hard one shaped right from the install.... and all tip tools become obsolete

tip scuffers are made to sell more tips...nothing more

twice a week??? buy a new tip every 3 months????

nah... buy a decent tip... and ride it for YEARS!!!

if it's installed properly and you don't beat the crap out of it... you can get YEARS of great play...

sell your scuffer to the guy with the $40 Kamui and then spend the rest of your time laughing at him
 

conetip

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
dirty equipment

The main reason you are experiencing this problem is where you play and the equipment you play on. This problem occurs due to dirty equipment, IE, the cloth, and the balls. The dirt from the cloth is picked up by the balls which makes them dirty, and this dirt is transfered to your cue tip from contact with the cue ball.

If you play on clean cloth, with clean balls this problem will almost completely go away. I own a pool room, my equipment is kept very very clean and this problem is not a factor here, however, when I use play in bars it use to be a very common problem even with non-layered tips.

JIMO

I have come to a similar conclusion. I and others were having a problem with tips glazing. I was being blamed for poor installation methods.
However, when the tables got recovered and the ball sets cleaned, these problems went away.Most here use elks or similar non layered tips.They all did the same.
 

pocketpared

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Moori medium

I have Moori mediums on my cue from around 10 years ago. Light play and still around 85% original height. Best tips I've ever had. I have a rolling toolbox in my basement near my table. I started using a file to scuff my tips. It's closer to fine than coarse. I just lay it lightly on the tip and roll the shaft on my palm. If I ever start shooting outside my house again I'm going to get the same file and cut a section a few inches long and keep it in my case. I haven't had anything work as well.

ps I keep my table very clean, use my Diamond ball cleaner regularly, and never have a problem with glazing. But, to be honest, I never had any problems on other tables either. If I miscue, it's from not chalking and I scuff the tip to get rid of the resulting slick spot after wetting and buffing the side of the tip. The radius still looks like the day I received the cue. I use blue Masters chalk but am not averse to trying Blue Diamond in the future.
 
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Thunderball

Auto rep for belly laughs
Silver Member
I had the same problem with glazing. Seemed every time I played I had to, at a minimum, scuff or pick some texture into the tip. I have moved back to simple one piece (and cheaper) triangle tips and the problem is better.At least now its not EVERY time I put it together. I'd say moving away from layered tips solved 75% of the issue.

Just my experience.
 

peteypooldude

I see Edges
Silver Member
I play with a 314 shaft and a layered tip with masters chalk. I've tried numerous different layered tips and all seem to glaze over after a few days of use. Are there any layered tips that don't need constant picking or scuffing? I'd like to have one that doesn't require all that maintenance. I'm even considering switching to a triangle or similar regular tip because I'm sick of the chalk not sticking. I'd rather stay with a layered tip as I'm afraid I won't get the same consistency and spin with a regular tip but it might be worth it.

I've tried Moori's (Quick, Med, Soft), Sniper's, Everests, Kamui Black and Brown and all of them have the same problem. It seems the glue that holds the layers together seems to come to the surface and create a smooth surface that won't hold chalk. Moori's seem to be the worst.

I had the same problems with the same tips,I switched to a triangle tip on my 314-2 and a milk dud on my 314 that I bought from pooldawg,that was the end of layered tips for me
 

Tramp Steamer

One Pocket enthusiast.
Silver Member
I shape my tips.... ummmm NEVER...

get a good hard one shaped right from the install.... and all tip tools become obsolete

tip scuffers are made to sell more tips...nothing more

twice a week??? buy a new tip every 3 months????

nah... buy a decent tip... and ride it for YEARS!!!

if it's installed properly and you don't beat the crap out of it... you can get YEARS of great play...

sell your scuffer to the guy with the $40 Kamui and then spend the rest of your time laughing at him


I look at it a different way. Having a tip installed is part of the cost of playing pool. Just like table time, lunch, a Quervo or two. It's all part of the overhead. If the occasional cost of a tip bothered me, then I probably shouldn't be playing.
 

sfleinen

14.1 & One Pocket Addict
Gold Member
Silver Member
Use the "seating the chalk" procedure with a tip tapper to prevent glazing

I play with a 314 shaft and a layered tip with masters chalk. I've tried numerous different layered tips and all seem to glaze over after a few days of use. Are there any layered tips that don't need constant picking or scuffing? I'd like to have one that doesn't require all that maintenance. I'm even considering switching to a triangle or similar regular tip because I'm sick of the chalk not sticking.

mnShooter:

The problem may lie not in the tip, but in how you're preparing/maintaining the tip. If you're constantly tip-picking and scuffing, I offer that you're doing something wrong. It might be how you're chalking the tip, that is causing the glazing.

Have you ever tried the old-timer's trick of "seating the chalk"? You'll need only one tool to do this: the miniature frying-skillet-shaped "tip tapper":

http://seyberts.com/products/Tip_Tapper-68-24.html

I would venture to guess that MOST POOL PLAYERS do not know that the knurled part of the tip tapper was not intended to be used as a "file." Instead, that knurled part is intended to be rolled across the tip.

Here's the chalk-seating procedure:

  1. Chalk the tip as you normally do (which, hopefully, is a brush-on method instead of a drilling method). Do not blow, tap, wipe, or brush any excess chalk off.
  2. Using the tip tapper with the knurled part embedded in the palm of your hand (knurled pattern facing out, obviously), handle facing upwards towards your fingers (basically the tip tapper is "upside down" in your hand -- just as you see it positioned in the picture above), you "roll" the knurled part with a little bit of pressure all over the chalked tip. Do NOT rub or scuff the tip tapper across the tip! You want a rolling action, with only modest pressure; you're not trying to stamp or impression metal, so ease up on the pressure. Continue rolling the tip tapper across the tip until you actually see the knurling pattern evenly distributed across the entire surface of the tip. It should only take about 5 seconds of rolling, but if you don't see the knurled pattern across the entire surface of the tip, keep doing it until you do.
  3. Chalk the tip again, and you're ready to play.
  4. You probably want a maintenance regimen of seating the chalk once every 6 or so racks, or more often if need be.

"Seating the chalk" does NOT damage the tip, like filing/tip-picking/scuffing do. What it does do, is to help bond the chalk to the tip by gently impregnating it. This prevents the glazing from taking place.

I actually keep two different types of tip tappers in my kit:

  • The tip tapper with the knurled pattern you see above (available in the AZBilliards MarketPlace) -- this one I use for the chalk-seating procedure.
  • The newly-redesigned tip tapper from the original designer/manufacturer. The newly-redesigned one has a true file surface on it (roughly equivalent to a machinist's mill file). As the product literature says, "A new precision one directional pattern acting as a true file or rasp."


I use this second tip tapper as, just as the literature says, to gently file and shape the tip. I don't use it even remotely as often as the knurled version, but it's there in my kit if I needed it. I probably use it once every blue moon, to shape the tip. The beauty about using a file, instead of an abrasive, is more precision in the process -- it doesn't take as much off the tip as abrasives do.

I'd rather stay with a layered tip as I'm afraid I won't get the same consistency and spin with a regular tip but it might be worth it.

I'm not sure I agree with this statement. I use both layered and standard/regular tips on my cues. My favorite tip at the moment is ElkMaster -- yes, a soft tip, but when I install a new one, I play some "slam ball" for about a day or two to compress it (which also has the secondary benefit of letting my stroke out for power shot practice), and then after that, I'll shape the mushroomed portion off the sides, and reburnish. I don't have to do much after that, for the life of the tip.

I haven't found a tip that, for me, gives as much controlled spin as a compressed ElkMaster. I really like soft tips for this purpose.

I've tried Moori's (Quick, Med, Soft), Sniper's, Everests, Kamui Black and Brown and all of them have the same problem. It seems the glue that holds the layers together seems to come to the surface and create a smooth surface that won't hold chalk. Moori's seem to be the worst.

There's some truth to that, IMHO. And it seems the more layers the tip has (equating to each layer being thinner), the more layers' glue gets exposed when the correct shape is applied to the tip. If you have a dime-shaped radius, even more layers' glue gets exposed over a nickel radius.

So although seating the chalk helps to prevent the glazing (and I've not experienced any problems with layered tips), I'm still a fan of one-piece leather tips, like the ElkMaster. YMMV.

Hope this is helpful,
-Sean
 
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MitchAlsup

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I play with a 314 shaft and a layered tip with masters chalk. I've tried numerous different layered tips and all seem to glaze over after a few days of use. Are there any layered tips that don't need constant picking or scuffing?

If this is your actual problem, then you need a harder tip--really. If this is a symptom on not understanding that a hard tip is stroked a bit more deliberately than a softer tip, then you just need a stroke adjustment.


I'd like to have one that doesn't require all that maintenance.

My last layered hard (82.4 on the durometer) lasted almost 1,000 hours of practice and a couple hundred of play. It needed maintenance (1 minute worth) about once a month.

I'm even considering switching to a triangle or similar regular tip because I'm sick of the chalk not sticking.

What kind of chalk do you use?

It seems the glue that holds the layers together seems to come to the surface and create a smooth surface that won't hold chalk.

Can you describe the step by step process by which you apply chalk to the surface of the tip?
 

Majic

With The Lights ON !!
Silver Member
I play with a 314 shaft and a layered tip with masters chalk. I've tried numerous different layered tips and all seem to glaze over after a few days of use. Are there any layered tips that don't need constant picking or scuffing? I'd like to have one that doesn't require all that maintenance. I'm even considering switching to a triangle or similar regular tip because I'm sick of the chalk not sticking. I'd rather stay with a layered tip as I'm afraid I won't get the same consistency and spin with a regular tip but it might be worth it.

I've tried Moori's (Quick, Med, Soft), Sniper's, Everests, Kamui Black and Brown and all of them have the same problem. It seems the glue that holds the layers together seems to come to the surface and create a smooth surface that won't hold chalk. Moori's seem to be the worst.

Do you happen to break with this shaft?
 
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