Laying your stick on the table
- Thread starter dabarbr
- Start date
Really? We need to define what a hand is and whether it has to be real?
i believe he was being sarcastic
No, you may not. This is a foul under both WPA and BCAPL rules. Don't know about APA.
If you are talking about the the BCAPL then you were misinformed. Clearly the pool league's rule allows you to take your hand off the cue. Here's a post from Buddy Eick, the BCAPL National Head Referee, where he addresses this:
https://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=3419760&postcount=7
If you talked to someone at the Billiard Congress about the WPA rules, then you received the correct answer though you got lucky because I'd be surprised if they even have a rules official on the payroll.
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That's one set of rules - I'd like to be able to say that these are THE rules, but not everyone agrees they are. I just don't think you could call a foul on someone in APA based on WPA rules.
The rule about the stick on the table is under fouls, 6.12.
BCA rules maybe, but not BCA league rules. It's perfectly legal in league, for some reason.
Hmmm.. yeah...it's one cue..just in parts...so now the opponent calls forfeit? because you broke down your cue in concession of the game?
That would be fun to watch that conversation, especially after the opponent rakes the balls to rack the next game, since this game is over..
If indeed, as it appears, in the right situation, with the right sanctioning rules..and the opponent aware that you are not forfeiting, using both parts of the cue to measure could be a real advantage..
I know that I might want to measure 'tangent lines' by creating right angle 'crosses' with the two cue pieces.
My league allows cue measuring without keeping your hand on the stick, but they also allow the cue tip on the table, a half ball from the ob, as an aiming reference thru the ob to the pocket, pivot the cue back to the cb shot line, and leave a little mark on the table....hey it's league night...chalk up... heavy
What about the granny?
Could this "stick" be placed on the table for shot alignment purposes? After all, placing it on the table is the proper way to use it.
The rule makers will get these questions all tightened up. Then there will be a smartphone app that you can take a picture of the table and it will calculate the lines. I know there is one that will show the lines, but you have to place the balls on the table first.
Could this "stick" be placed on the table for shot alignment purposes? After all, placing it on the table is the proper way to use it.
The rule makers will get these questions all tightened up. Then there will be a smartphone app that you can take a picture of the table and it will calculate the lines. I know there is one that will show the lines, but you have to place the balls on the table first.
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An opportunistic opponent might also try for the "quick rake" of the balls when he leaves you hooked and, after assessing the situation you decide on a jump shot and begin to unscrew your jump/break cue as you approach the table. After all, at the moment it is your "playing cue". :grin-square:
I doubt a ref would support calling a concession in either of these situations when in both you are the player in control of the table. It would more aptly be called when your opponent is at the table and you unscrew from your chair. :wink:
Prolly. I was. :wink::grin-square:
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Originally Posted by Celophanewrap View Post
I don't think the APA addresses this at all. There is no rule preventing it
Please, this is the APA we're talking about
I don't think the APA addresses this at all. There is no rule preventing it
Please, this is the APA we're talking about
Here is what I remember.
The WPA has the 'it is a foul' rule ( if you take your hand off). That is how it was around 2004 when we took over the leagues.
We disagreed with this rule - in fact a year or two earlier, I saw a hill-hill team match lost because of that rule. The player was tying their shoelace. That is just wrong!
Even with a lot of aiming, you still gotta shoot the shot. I just think it is a bad rule. In CSI events, it does not exist. You cannot mark the table with chalk or anything like that- but you can line up things with your cue stick. If someone analyzes things too much, they might get a warning for slow play.
Also from memory I believe in the APA that you can use chalk as an aid on aiming - but it cannot touch the cloth. If it touches the cloth, it is a foul. You cannot use anytime as an aiming device in our events.
I gotta say - some of you guys get WAY to anal on these little idiosyncrasies of rules- lol.
Mark Griffin, ceo
CSI
The WPA has the 'it is a foul' rule ( if you take your hand off). That is how it was around 2004 when we took over the leagues.
We disagreed with this rule - in fact a year or two earlier, I saw a hill-hill team match lost because of that rule. The player was tying their shoelace. That is just wrong!
Even with a lot of aiming, you still gotta shoot the shot. I just think it is a bad rule. In CSI events, it does not exist. You cannot mark the table with chalk or anything like that- but you can line up things with your cue stick. If someone analyzes things too much, they might get a warning for slow play.
Also from memory I believe in the APA that you can use chalk as an aid on aiming - but it cannot touch the cloth. If it touches the cloth, it is a foul. You cannot use anytime as an aiming device in our events.
I gotta say - some of you guys get WAY to anal on these little idiosyncrasies of rules- lol.
Mark Griffin, ceo
CSI
That was a crazy ruling, losing a match because he put his cue down to tie his shoe. But that should not have been a foul even under WPA rules which state you cannot let go of the cue when using it to align a shot.
Since he wasn't in the act of aligning/measuring or aiming a shot, there should not have been a foul called.
Since he wasn't in the act of aligning/measuring or aiming a shot, there should not have been a foul called.
Frank..see what you started...
I just like to kick up a little dust sometimes.
In the current 2012-2014 edition ''official rules of the BCA Pool League I could not find rule 6.12 This edition puts a (-) between the number...example 6-2. Like someone may have said, the carry around cue case rule books could/may be different or from a different year. The common denominator tho was it had to be your playing cue, no other.
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Lying stick on the table
Well, that sounds simple ----- but in reality how is a referee going to tell that I wasn't using it to align a shot - and maybe I just tied my shoelace in the middle.
The rule is not necessary - the shot must still be executed. A rule like the one being discussed is only a way to start an argument.
Why create a situation that is open to 'intent?'
Mark Griffin
Well, that sounds simple ----- but in reality how is a referee going to tell that I wasn't using it to align a shot - and maybe I just tied my shoelace in the middle.
The rule is not necessary - the shot must still be executed. A rule like the one being discussed is only a way to start an argument.
Why create a situation that is open to 'intent?'
Mark Griffin
here is the rules
http://home.bca-pool.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=54
here is the section on fouls
http://home.bca-pool.com/displaycommon.cfm?an=1&subarticlenbr=54#fouls
dont shoot the messenger............:grin:
Fwiw
Copyright© 1995-2011 book is noted at the bottom page of your links. The current BCAPL book is the twenty twelve-twenty fourteen. The links given are from the BCA mfg. in CO website, not the BCAPL in Henderson NV.
Copyright© 1995-2011 book is noted at the bottom page of your links. The current BCAPL book is the twenty twelve-twenty fourteen. The links given are from the BCA mfg. in CO website, not the BCAPL in Henderson NV.