LD shaft for one pocket?

snipershot

Go ahead.....run for it.
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I used a LD shaft when I only played 9ball or 8ball (predator and OB1). I decided Id rather just stay with good regular shafts, but its always in my head that maybe I shot a little better with the LD shafts. There are a few people around here that cant stand the idea of using a LD shaft for one-hole, but I cant for the life of me figure out why??? The only reason I can think of is maybe, and I mean maybe, there are a small amount of shots where the deflection might help whitey get outta the way doin some cross banks. Anyone have any ideas why a LD shaft might be bad for one-hole? Or why it might be good? Or a guess about any of it? lol.


Joe
 
I used a LD shaft when I only played 9ball or 8ball (predator and OB1). I decided Id rather just stay with good regular shafts, but its always in my head that maybe I shot a little better with the LD shafts. There are a few people around here that cant stand the idea of using a LD shaft for one-hole, but I cant for the life of me figure out why??? The only reason I can think of is maybe, and I mean maybe, there are a small amount of shots where the deflection might help whitey get outta the way doin some cross banks. Anyone have any ideas why a LD shaft might be bad for one-hole? Or why it might be good? Or a guess about any of it? lol.


Joe

I think the guys who don't like LD shafts for one pocket are high. I feel like I can do more with an LD shaft in any game. Don't they ever bank balls in rotation games?
 
They do use LD shafts for one pocket.

Scott Frost uses an LD "Eye Shaft", as can be seen in the "What's in your case" video on utube. I'm pretty sure he knows what he's doing. He sold his Hunter, and plays with a Cog now, but I'd be willing to bet he had an Eye Shaft fitted to it right away.


Bottom line is this:


Use whatever works best for YOU!
 
why??? The only reason I can think of is maybe, and I mean maybe, there are a small amount of shots where the deflection might help whitey get outta the way doin some cross banks.
Nope. That's no easier with LD shafts. You have to hit the same spot on the ball.

pj
chgo
 
I dont like ld shafts for anything but i have tried them.When playing one pocket i like my shaft with the softest tip and its probably in my head but i feel i can pinch tight banks a little better and controll the cueball better in tight spots
 
It is all preference and some mental stuff. I know that my car is not going to run better because its clean but it seems when I have it all shined up my car is running smoother, its just in my head. :D
 
It is all preference and some mental stuff. I know that my car is not going to run better because its clean but it seems when I have it all shined up my car is running smoother, its just in my head. :D

Ding, ding... We have a winner IMHO too!
 
...there are a small amount of shots where the deflection might help whitey get outta the way doin some cross banks....
Joe

No sale. How is this the case. Where you aim is a function of how much deflection you allow for. Where it hits the object ball to go in the desired direction is always the same (within pocket tolerances and throw effect of spin).

Nick
 
cue physics is so mysterious

The point of "LD" shafts is to get the tip off of the ball fast so that the
cue stick doesn't have time to push the cue ball off of the aim line.

This has a dramatic effect on many shots, if you know what your cue stick is
capable of, and designed to do.

The obvious difference lies in the path of the cue ball. A "LD" shaft
will shoot straighter, with sidespin, than a "standard" shaft.

The "standard" shaft will allow you to "squirt" around blocking balls
whereas the "LD" shaft will require you to "aim" around them and let
the cloth + the side spin + stick elevation "swerve" the cue ball onto
the correct path.

"Standard" shaft = squirt + swerve = cue ball arc
"LD" shaft = swerve only
Your mileage may vary as this is all dependent on how you swing it.
 
cue physics is so mysterious
Not really. It's all pretty straightforward and common sensical.

The point of "LD" shafts is to get the tip off of the ball fast so that the cue stick doesn't have time to push the cue ball off of the aim line.
The point is really to reduce the amount of mass in the end of the stick that the ball has to push aside. The tip stays in contact with the CB about the same amount of time.

The "standard" shaft will allow you to "squirt" around blocking balls
whereas the "LD" shaft will require you to "aim" around them
Right, this is a difference.

and let the cloth + the side spin + stick elevation "swerve" the cue ball onto the correct path.
But this is true for both kinds of shaft.

Your mileage may vary as this is all dependent on how you swing it.
Actually, your swing has little to do with it.

pj
chgo
 
No sale. How is this the case. Where you aim is a function of how much deflection you allow for. Where it hits the object ball to go in the desired direction is always the same (within pocket tolerances and throw effect of spin).

Nick

The only shot I can think of at the moment is where the cue ball and the object ball are fairly close, say around an inch or two apart. I have seen the deflection occur when I use a lot of side spin. Whitey squirts off the tip pretty good. I play for the squirt, and once every hundred shots, I judge it right, and make the cross bank. With a LD shaft, I would have to learn to play it differently. I suppose it could be all in my head, but it seems logical. With that said, I can think of other shots (like using spin to throw the ball) where the LD shaft should improve my percentage of making those shots.

Joe
 
I made the switch to LD before I started playing 1Hole.I can say that I was used to curving around balls slightly with just a normal stroke due to the deflection of my old Muueci.I didn't even know what squirt was untill I started contacting the interfering ball when using the Predator 314.I haven't even picked up a whipy cue since so I don't know how it would effect 1 pocket.
 
I've used standard shafts for most of my pool playing days. And I should point out that I lived in the NYC area, where I grew up on and favored straight pool. I believe the unique positional demands of straight pool force a player to learn inside english. Therefore, I never had much problem with using inside. And inside, I believe, is the primary reason people go to a LD shaft.

In any case, since a lot of players had gone to LD, I thought I'd try them out. So I borrowed a Predator 314 and bought an OB1. Of the two, I preferred the hit of the OB1, which felt more solid to me.

As for squirt, at first I was impressed that I didn't have to make much of a compensation with english. I could shoot a straight in shot with a full tip of english and not have to change aim, as long as I hit it hard enough to negate throw. Pretty cool.

But as I began to play with the OB1, I realized how many aiming nuances I had to adjust for. I have played with the same cue for 25 years! I know it intimately, and we aim without thinking. And so, with an LD shaft I had to think on every shot I used english. It was incredibly distracting.

I had two lengthy trial periods before I concluded there was no benefit to LD shafts. Yes, there is less compensation required, but that primarily is limited to inside english. Using outside, there is often MORE compensation. Moreover, I had better feel with my solid shafts, so I felt more in control of cueball subtleties.

So, on balance, I can see why people are attracted to LD shafts. But to imagine that a LD can do things a solid shaft cannot shows a lack of understanding and reveals a tendency for magical thinking or delusion.
 
got it figured right?

Not really. It's all pretty straightforward and common sensical.

Maybe you can explain, in detail, the physical effect on
a cue stick, from tip to bumper, that occurs during that ~1millisecond.


The point is really to reduce the amount of mass in the end of the stick that the ball has to push aside. The tip stays in contact with the CB about the same amount of time.

Maybe you can define "about the same amount"
within your response to the first topic.


Actually, your swing has little to do with it.

My swing has everything to do with it.


pj
chgo

I was going to give you a hint but I can't wait to see what you come up with.
Good luck.
 
I was going to give you a hint but I can't wait to see what you come up with.
Good luck.
As I understand the physics, what Pat said was correct. Do you have some specific correction? Do you have a demonstration of the effect of stroke on changing squirt, other than the well-known compensation from back-hand english/aim-and-pivot?
 
As I understand the physics, what Pat said was correct. Do you have some specific correction? Do you have a demonstration of the effect of stroke on changing squirt, other than the well-known compensation from back-hand english/aim-and-pivot?

Hi Bob. Like Kaufman, I have played many years with the same standard shaft(s) and so small aiming adjustments when using side english probably happen without me thinking about it. On a cut shot using inside english, particularly when the ball is on the rail, I think I sometimes use a certain stroke to introduce a little swerve to compensate for squirt. Do you have a feeling for if this is common or likely, or would you suspect the end result of my stroke at point of impact is really me using a little back-hand english?

EDIT: I just reread your 2004 article on back-hand english. What I am describing you call in that article aim and swerve...and a recipe for disaster.

Kelly
 
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As I understand the physics, what Pat said was correct. Do you have some specific correction? Do you have a demonstration of the effect of stroke on changing squirt, other than the well-known compensation from back-hand english/aim-and-pivot?

You're kidding right?
 
I was going to give you a hint but I can't wait to see what you come up with.
Good luck.
Before you get all huffy about being corrected (and get yourself even more publicly committed to the wrong ideas), maybe you should read some of the posts that have been made on this topic over several years. Everything you mention has been pretty thoroughly questioned and answered by pretty knowledgable people.

If you don't trust my opinion (who would?), maybe you'll listen to what Bob Jewett says. He's a columnist for Billiards Digest who writes extensively on these things.

pj
chgo
 
I figured this topic was about some of the banks that are really hard to beat the kiss which is why I opened it. I was sadly mistaken. This is one big duh of a thread. I really can't see why LD or conventional makes any difference based on the content of the posts.
 
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