Legend vs Young Gambler woofin over the use of a jump cue!

Perk

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Figured I would share a sound bite from this weekend.

Little bit of woofin from Alpena this past weekend. In this sound bite you get to hear a Legend, a current pro, and a young gambler. All the heckling for a $1000.00 set and the use of a jump cue.

VN 00008.mp3 - 6.37MB
 
+1

I'm of the same thinking......you want my money?...jump with your playing cue....and leave the "short cue" in your pants! :)



G.
 
Drunk pool players woofin' at each other are some funny son-of-a-guns :grin-square:. I got my entertainment for the evening (since NCIS is a re-run). Thanks!!!

Maniac
 
Who were the people in the audio clip? I'm totally on the side of the old guy. If that kid was so tough, he'd leave his jump cue in the case and beat him anyway. I mean, if I used a jump cue and thought I was the nuts-favorite on someone and they cried about the jump cue--- I'd snap the thing in half and tell him to get up. Sounds to me the kid was scared, imo.

Reminds me of Joe Rogan's Earl impersonation. "Jump cue?! When I was younger we didn't have no f#$king jump cues. Look at you with your little cue thinking you did something; happy as punch. I jump with a Meucci. I jump full table with a Meucci--- how strong is THAT?!?"


hahaha Joe, you're the man
 
Well......of course I take the other side........I feel like the old guy should get with the program and use the new equipment.

I mean we aren't playing with maces on woven mats with bundled straw for bumpers. Imagine in Tennis if Jimmy Conners got up in Agassi's face and said he'd play but only if they used wooden racquets.

Can you see the dialog? "Listen punk, anyone can hit the ball 97 miles an hour with a graphite cyborg arm attached to your wrist, get your ass up there and do it with a piece of nature like we did it in my day.........."

The jump cue - here we go again - is a part of the modern game and has been for 20 years. It's stock equipment for anyone who wants to be part of pool now. If you don't want to use one and limit the amount of shots available to you then don't but don't seek to limit everyone else as well.

I mean imagine how it was when the guy with a cube of chalk showed up in town. All those great players who hadn't used chalk and didn't know how to use sidespin would have been *****ing about it. Look punk we play pool here without magic fairy dust on the ends of our cues and if you want to gamble with us then you have to go without it as well.

The "Twig" is a part of pool and has been for 20 years - get over it already.
 
Well......of course I take the other side........I feel like the old guy should get with the program and use the new equipment.

I mean we aren't playing with maces on woven mats with bundled straw for bumpers. Imagine in Tennis if Jimmy Conners got up in Agassi's face and said he'd play but only if they used wooden racquets.

Can you see the dialog? "Listen punk, anyone can hit the ball 97 miles an hour with a graphite cyborg arm attached to your wrist, get your ass up there and do it with a piece of nature like we did it in my day.........."

The jump cue - here we go again - is a part of the modern game and has been for 20 years. It's stock equipment for anyone who wants to be part of pool now. If you don't want to use one and limit the amount of shots available to you then don't but don't seek to limit everyone else as well.

I mean imagine how it was when the guy with a cube of chalk showed up in town. All those great players who hadn't used chalk and didn't know how to use sidespin would have been *****ing about it. Look punk we play pool here without magic fairy dust on the ends of our cues and if you want to gamble with us then you have to go without it as well.

The "Twig" is a part of pool and has been for 20 years - get over it already.

I respect your opinion. For me, you should have to jump with what you play with. Hemming someone up 3" from the impeding ball should force someone to kick. I've jumped with a bunch of jump cues and it takes the talent out of the shot completely. The hardest thing about using a jump cue is keeping the CB on the table because it jumps so well.

The jump cue is a part of our game because of marketing and retailing. It's fun to watch, but bad for the game (from a purist's perspective). What's wrong with jumping with your own cue? Ahhh that's right--- most people can't. It's like using the "Alien Wedge" out of a bunker on a golf course. My mom can blast out of a bunker with one and she doesn't even play :)
 
I respect your opinion. For me, you should have to jump with what you play with. Hemming someone up 3" from the impeding ball should force someone to kick. I've jumped with a bunch of jump cues and it takes the talent out of the shot completely. The hardest thing about using a jump cue is keeping the CB on the table because it jumps so well.

The jump cue is a part of our game because of marketing and retailing. It's fun to watch, but bad for the game (from a purist's perspective). What's wrong with jumping with your own cue? Ahhh that's right--- most people can't. It's like using the "Alien Wedge" out of a bunker on a golf course. My mom can blast out of a bunker with one and she doesn't even play :)

Ahh but we disagree, surprise!

Saying that the jump cue takes the talent out of it is like saying chalk takes the talent out of applying sidespin to the cueball.

In both situations the tool, a jump cue or chalk, only allows the action to happen at all with as much precision as the user can bring to bear. In both situations the tool is not needed to effect the shot as it's possible to jump without a jump cue and it's possible to apply sidespin without chalk.

But in both situations the RANGE of available shots is severely limited without the tool.

The example of the Alien Wedge may be true that it allows an unskilled person to do more but then it is equally true that it allows a skilled person to do much much much more. A rising tide lifts all boats.

So an Earl Strickland with a jump cue is far more dangerous on the pool table than I will ever be with a jump cue. His success rate will be so much higher than mine that it's not even worth comparing. Why? Because he already has forgotten more about jumping balls than I know and thereby when given a better tool he can use that wider range of shots with a precision that I can only dream about.
 
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The jump cue is a part of our game because of marketing and retailing. It's fun to watch, but bad for the game (from a purist's perspective). What's wrong with jumping with your own cue? Ahhh that's right--- most people can't. It's like using the "Alien Wedge" out of a bunker on a golf course. My mom can blast out of a bunker with one and she doesn't even play :)

Sorry I didn't address this part of your post.

First, the jump cue was invented by a world class player and that player never sold or marketed a jump cue in his life.

Jump cues were invented and refined to fill a specific need. And that need is to not give up ball in hand. Since the rules changed to one foul instead of push-out it made the game lopsided. When a person would deliberately play safe or get safe through luck then the incoming player was faced with a really tough situation with a really harsh penalty, ball in hand for the incoming player.

You see the people who wrote the push-out rules for nine ball were not stupid. They understood that getting lucky to safe a person and thus giving up ball in hand was not a pleasurable way to play the game. So they made the rule to eliminate lucky safes by allowing the incoming player to push the cue ball to another position instead of forcing them to try and hit the ball. This rule worked very well BUT it could lead to some long games.

So the guys at who formed the Texas Express tour did so with their new Texas Express rules. In these rules there was no more push out at any time allowed, only after the break. Thus the game changed in a critical way so that now lucky and intentional safeties were much much more powerful. Until that time very few people had good kicking games or good jumping skills. Those that did often exploited them under the old rules as they would push to a kick or a jump knowing that the incoming player would give the shot back.

in any event the new rules changed the game making it so that the incoming player MUST contact the lowest numbered ball and a rail or give up ball in hand. And this is why jump cues were invented and introduced. In order to somewhat reset the balance between defense and offense in the game of nine ball.

Many people have worked these past twenty years to refine the jump cue into a real good tool that fits the game. Rule makers have refined the rules to define the parameters of cues so that jump cues are made within those parameters.

There is no consortium of jump cue makers out there lobbying the rule makers to allow their products. It's simply a natural evolution of the game born out of the way the rules were changed and how the game itself changed along with those rules.

Now to address the second part of your statement;

"What's wrong with using your own cue to jump?"

Nothing except that all "normal sized" cues are not equally suited to the task. Some really do "jump" better than others. So if I happen to own one which "jumps" great and I am playing against you and your cue doesn't jump great then I have an advantage over you that has nothing at all to do with my skill level. If we switch cues then the advantage goes to you when it comes to jump shots.

And the other disadvantage to the player is that jumping with a full cue is very awkward. The cue was not designed to be used that way so the player has to contort quite a bit and it's frankly physically challenging. The "normal" pool cue has evolved into it's present form because that is the optimal form for playing pool with a level stroke. Going back in time you will find that there have been many variations of the pool cue.

So a jump cue gives all players the same tool and the same range of shots.

How good a player is using that tool depends entirely on their own skill.
 
Personally, I find it rather disgusting that the "young gun" would talk like that to the legend and the pro. Granted, the legend and the pro have surely been known to talk crap too, but the young gun hasn't proven a thing yet compared to them. What ever happened to respect?? Not to mention that both are old enough to be the young guns father. (I know who they are, but it's Perks thread, if he wants to out them, it's up to him.)

I agree completely. The legend doesn't even play anymore. When he DID play, I guess he was a world champion. What has the kid ever won - or who has he beat?

If I was that pro in this clip, I'd tell him I'd bet with him after he wins his first world championship. Otherwise, STFU nithead.
 
Figured I would share a sound bite from this weekend.

Little bit of woofin from Alpena this past weekend. In this sound bite you get to hear a Legend, a current pro, and a young gambler. All the heckling for a $1000.00 set and the use of a jump cue.

VN 00008.mp3 - 6.37MB

Old people are always afraid of change. it's the way of the world. give it time they'll be gone soon enough
 
if jump cues arent allowed then i dont see why break cues are allowed either. jump cues make it easier to jump and break cues make it easier to break. if the reason for banning jump cue is because they make jumping easier then the same theory can be applied to break cues and those should be banned also.

when i play safe and the guy jumps out of it, i dont get mad, i think about what i did wrong and realized i didnt play it well enough to prevent that from happening. contrary to what most people think, u cant jump ur way out of every safe. and if thats the case and the guy is jumping on u, then u just need to practice safes more in order to play a better safe.
 
Jump cue problems ....

When i play safe and the guy jumps out of it, i dont get mad, i think about what i did wrong and realized i didnt play it well enough to prevent that from happening.

Here is the problem with jump cues .... A lot of players do not even have a leather tips on their jump cue. As far as I am concerned, jump cues are great if they have legal tips on them, but with illegal tips on them you can hardly hook anyone anymore. That is the problem.

If leather is not used on the tip they should be illegal to use in a match unless both players don't care.

If I go to a tournament with a leather tip jump cue which mine is, I have a disadvantage if someone is using a tip other than leather. If the tournament director could care less about the cue tips I have a disadvantage when it comes to hooking someone in the match.
 
Here is the problem with jump cues .... A lot of players do not even have a leather tips on their jump cue. As far as I am concerned, jump cues are great if they have legal tips on them, but with illegal tips on them you can hardly hook anyone anymore. That is the problem.

If leather is not used on the tip they should be illegal to use in a match unless both players don't care.

If I go to a tournament with a leather tip jump cue which mine is, I have a disadvantage if someone is using a tip other than leather. If the tournament director could care less about the cue tips I have a disadvantage when it comes to hooking someone in the match.

Why should the tips be leather? It's possible to use a leather tip and make it hard enough to perform just like a phenolic tip. It just takes more steps to make it that way. The end result is the same.

There is no reason for you to be at any sort of disadvantage, it's self imposed because the same performance is available to everyone.

We have had this discussion so many times and in other sports there are valid reasons for restricting how the equipment performs, in baseball and golf the courses and stadiums cost millions to build so corked bats and certain drivers would require that the playing fields be changed - that's obviously not something that the investors want to think about.

But in pool there is no reason for a jump cue to be restricted in it's performance as long as it doesn't make the shot for you. Which it doesn't. You still have to be the one who strokes it and makes the shot.

The other night I played a guy for $100 a set and he missed EVERY jump shot he took with a jump cue. I mean he didn't clear one ball, not one. He took about five or six shots in the two sets we played and he didn't clear one ball. I made contact on all my jump shots and pocketed a few of them, I played jump-safeties and jump banks. And despite that we still broke even.

Now, I could have taught this guy the proper technique to jump balls in five minutes and normally I would. But it so happens that I was in ueber-competitive mode and didn't feel like being a teacher.

The point is that the jump cue doesn't do the work. It is an inert object that works when used properly. Saying a jump cue does the work is like saying that a hammer drives the nails by itself.

If you can't jump all shots with your jump cue then you should make sure that your equipment is the best it can be and that your skill level is as high as it can be on that aspect of the game.

Don't worry about what your opponent is using.
 
if jump cues arent allowed then i dont see why break cues are allowed either. jump cues make it easier to jump and break cues make it easier to break. if the reason for banning jump cue is because they make jumping easier then the same theory can be applied to break cues and those should be banned also.

when i play safe and the guy jumps out of it, i dont get mad, i think about what i did wrong and realized i didnt play it well enough to prevent that from happening. contrary to what most people think, u cant jump ur way out of every safe. and if thats the case and the guy is jumping on u, then u just need to practice safes more in order to play a better safe.

Or low deflection shafts, ass weights (from the Joe Rogan does Strickland video), gloves, etc....

I mean if you believe the advertising as many do that low deflection shafts improve accuracy then isn't it an advantage if one person is using an LD shaft and the other person is not.

Well, see now young feller I ain't gonna gamble with you unless you will use a normal shaft and a one piece tip - I ain't getting beat by all that high tech Iron Willie robot pool nonsense, you want to play me then you have to guess about deflection just like we had to 72 years ago. You didn't see no Ralf Greenleaf asking for a shaft made of splinters glued together. He ran millions using a regular American one piece of solid wood shaft. Yeah ok he did turn down that one challenge match from that 80 year old man who stilled played with a mace but that don't count, I mean who stilled played with maces when Greenleaf was champion. You can't expect a champion like Greenleaf to play with a mace.

Be a man and play with a shaft that ain't accurate, then we can see how much heart you have. It's ok if you're scared, I didn't grow up with them low-deflection shafts that make the damn ball for you - I learned pool like a man learns pool with a regular shaft - so it's ok if you're scared, just say you're scared.
 
> I think I know who the young kid is,almost sure the older champion is Ray Martin or Ed Kelly,who was the other? Tommy D.
 
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