Legendary Muscle

midnightpulp

midnightpulp

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Okay, we all know about the great roadmen, champions, hustlers, even the backers, but how about a shout out for the unsung heroes of high-stakes pool: The Muscle.

What's a 120 pound hustler to do if his opponent stiffs him? Without Muscle, that ten pack he put up to win 5k means nothing.

Freddy B, Jay H, Johnny T, I'm looking to you guys here. Let's hear some good stories about those looming figures with crossed arms who may not be able to play with a cue, but sure know how to use it, if you know what I mean.
 
midnightpulp said:
Okay, we all know about the great roadmen, champions, hustlers, even the backers, but how about a shout out for the unsung heroes of high-stakes pool: The Muscle.

What's a 120 pound hustler to do if his opponent stiffs him? Without Muscle, that ten pack he put up to win 5k means nothing.

Freddy B, Jay H, Johnny T, I'm looking to you guys here. Let's hear some good stories about those looming figures with crossed arms who may not be able to play with a cue, but sure know how to use it, if you know what I mean.
Click to expand...

The proper vernacular for such a character in pooldom is "tush-hog", of which Hubert "DaddyWarbucks" Cokes (Dec 19, 1898-Feb 13, 1978) was the grandaddy of 'em all.
Besides being ornery, quick tempered and always carrying AT LEAST 2 handguns, he was purported to have been directly involved in the "demise" of several, what's the word I'm looking for....."people who wronged him."
My favorite story about him is where he allegedly "*****-slapped" Baby Face Nelson and Nelson was too intimidated to retaliate.

He was the one who took Nick Varner on the road and while acting as his tush-hog, gave Nicky the nick-name of "The little gorilla" for how tough and tenacious Nick was in gambling sessions.

Cokes made the majority of his money in the oil business and was a regular at the Johnston City tournaments, both as a player and backer.

I have a 5x7 photo of him hanging in my poolroom. I would have loved to meet him in person

***Edited on 2/9/08
PS-Special thanks to JimS for pointing out to me that I left the "t" out of Johnston, lest somebody think I lost my mind.:)
 
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I never played for $5,000 on a pool table in my life but have played a lot $100-$500 14.1 and $50 a game 8-ball on a bar table. I was lucky to be from an Italian neighborhood, so when I played with in five square miles of my home base I was protected and always got my money.

If I found a place where they played for nice money away from home base that people didn't know me, I would have two to six of my biker friends come in after the match started. I'd give them each $20 to hang out and drink, and watch my back. This was in the late 1950's when a beer was a dime. Later on I had to pay them more but they did other things for me too...so I always got my monies worth.

Most of the people I played were dealers, bikers (not the working type), bookies and numbers runners, regular run of the mill thieves. Most all had done time.

The worst night I ever had was at a famous Black club in Freeport Long Island. I had a friend set me up to play 6-ball for $200 a game (yeah I said 6-ball and at the time I said WTF is he thinking?) with the big bookie on the Eastside of the Island. I went to my local hangout but I couldn't find anyone there that I had used before. I was panicing. I already gave $200 for the steer and I found out that the guy very rarely ran out. One of my friends had beaten him the year before for just under ten grand, and I played a little better than he did.

Then I made my big mistake of the year. Pete, a gun-nut, crazy as hell, unstable as hell friend of mine comes waltzing up to me asking if he can go with me to watch my back. All I could think of and picture was $200 a game 6-ball and fish swimming in a barrel, so I said let's go.

We go in the club. I find the guy I?m going to play. I'm up around two grand and getting along and joking with him and his friends when Pete thinks (THINKS) he sees someone around the pool table go for their gun. Pete wearing a trench coat pulls out a sawed-off and starts blasting away. Then about twenty other guys with handguns start shooting. As we were running to the door to get to his motorcycle I could feel the bullets going by me and hitting walls and bottle and glasses on the tables. Thank god his bike started right away (it was a Harley, they didn't start well cold). To this day I have no idea how I wasn't killed that night. About a month later Pete blew his girlfriend's head off with a shotgun and got life. Damn I miss those days. Johnnyt
 
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Johnnyt said:
I never played for $5,000 on a pool table in my life but have played a lot $100-$500 14.1 and $50 a game 8-ball on a bar table. I was lucky to be from an Italian neighborhood, so when I played with in five square miles of my home base I was protected and always got my money.

If I found a place where they played for nice money away from home base that people didn?t know me, I would have two to six of my biker friends come in after the match started. I'd give them each $20 to hang out and drink, and watch my back. This was in the late 1950's when a beer was a dime. Later on I had to pay them more but they did other things for me too...so I always got my monies worth.

Most of the people I played were dealers, bikers (not the working type), bookies and numbers runners, regular run of the mill thieves. Most all had done time.

The worst night I ever had was at a famous Black club in Freeport Long Island. I had a friend set me up to play 6-ball for $200 a game (yeah I said 6-ball and at the time I said WTF is he thinking?) with the big bookie on the Eastside of the Island. I went to my local hangout but I couldn't find anyone there that I had used before. I was panicing. I already gave $200 for the steer and I found out that the guy very rarely ran out. One of my friends had beaten him the year before for just under ten grand, and I played a little better than he did.

Then I made my big mistake of the year. Pete, a gun-nut, crazy as hell, unstable as hell friend of mine comes waltzing up to me asking if he can go with me to watch my back. All I could think of and picture was $200 a game 6-ball and fish swimming in a barrel, so I said let's go.

We go in the club. I find the guy I?m going to play. I'm up around two grand and getting along and joking with him and his friends when Pete thinks (THINKS) he sees someone around the pool table go for their gun. Pete wearing a trench coat pulls out a sawed-off and starts blasting away. Then about twenty other guys with handguns start shooting. As we were running to the door to get to his motorcycle I could feel the bullets going by me and hitting walls and bottle and glasses on the tables. Thank god his bike started right away (it was a Harley, they didn't start well cold). To this day I have no idea how I wasn't killed that night. About a month later Pete blew his girlfriend's head off with a shotgun and got life. Damn I miss those days. Johnnyt
Click to expand...

Now THATS a story!
 
Johnnyt said:
I never played for $5,000 on a pool table in my life but have played a lot $100-$500 14.1 and $50 a game 8-ball on a bar table. I was lucky to be from an Italian neighborhood, so when I played with in five square miles of my home base I was protected and always got my money.

If I found a place where they played for nice money away from home base that people didn?t know me, I would have two to six of my biker friends come in after the match started. I'd give them each $20 to hang out and drink, and watch my back. This was in the late 1950's when a beer was a dime. Later on I had to pay them more but they did other things for me too...so I always got my monies worth.

Most of the people I played were dealers, bikers (not the working type), bookies and numbers runners, regular run of the mill thieves. Most all had done time.

The worst night I ever had was at a famous Black club in Freeport Long Island. I had a friend set me up to play 6-ball for $200 a game (yeah I said 6-ball and at the time I said WTF is he thinking?) with the big bookie on the Eastside of the Island. I went to my local hangout but I couldn't find anyone there that I had used before. I was panicing. I already gave $200 for the steer and I found out that the guy very rarely ran out. One of my friends had beaten him the year before for just under ten grand, and I played a little better than he did.

Then I made my big mistake of the year. Pete, a gun-nut, crazy as hell, unstable as hell friend of mine comes waltzing up to me asking if he can go with me to watch my back. All I could think of and picture was $200 a game 6-ball and fish swimming in a barrel, so I said let's go.

We go in the club. I find the guy I?m going to play. I'm up around two grand and getting along and joking with him and his friends when Pete thinks (THINKS) he sees someone around the pool table go for their gun. Pete wearing a trench coat pulls out a sawed-off and starts blasting away. Then about twenty other guys with handguns start shooting. As we were running to the door to get to his motorcycle I could feel the bullets going by me and hitting walls and bottle and glasses on the tables. Thank god his bike started right away (it was a Harley, they didn't start well cold). To this day I have no idea how I wasn't killed that night. About a month later Pete blew his girlfriend's head off with a shotgun and got life. Damn I miss those days. Johnnyt
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Johnny,
Lately, I've given you enough props and atta boys and compliments on these forums to make most people sick in the belly. If I was any sweeter to you, I would have given you a cavity.
So, with those niceities out of the way, I have a question. Would you ever consider doing an autobiography book? I have only asked that of Freddy before on these forums, although I wish several pro players would do so.
Not to inflate your ego, but you do got some fun stories and a unique way of expressing yourself.:D
I for one wish you would write your life story. It's got everything I've always liked....guns, shooting, fighting, dangerous situations, funny characters and pool.
Give it some thought.
And don't worry about the statue of limitations.:eek:
 
30% of my week Im at work
30% Im in a pool room of sorts
40% I am at my boxing club

hahaha. 120lbs of fury!

sleep is for the weak.
 
Terry Ardeno said:
The proper vernacular for such a character in pooldom is "tush-hog", of which Hubert "DaddyWarbucks" Cokes (Dec 19, 1898-Feb 13, 1978) was the grandaddy of 'em all.
Besides being ornery, quick tempered and always carrying AT LEAST 2 handguns, he was purported to have been directly involved in the "demise" of several, what's the word I'm looking for....."people who wronged him."
My favorite story about him is where he allegedly "*****-slapped" Baby Face Nelson and Nelson was too intimidated to retaliate.

He was the one who took Nick Varner on the road and while acting as his tush-hog, gave Nicky the nick-name of "The little gorilla" for how tough and tenacious Nick was in gambling sessions.

Cokes made the majority of his money in the oil business and was a regular at the Johnson City tournaments, both as a player and backer.

I have a 5x7 photo of him hanging in my poolroom. I would have loved to meet him in person
Click to expand...


Here is a stroy about Hubert I had posted before. Repost for those who missed it.

Another good story Bobbi Newbols told me about Hubert at the Joston city tourney. Hubert was playing Danny Dilaberto and there was a argument about the ball count. They were playing one pocket. Finally Hubert said we can go into the bathroom and finish this argument. Danny said forget it the ball is yours. There was a guy in the stands telling Danny not to let him move the ball. Danny said you go in the bathroom with him and work it out then. The guy shut up for a short while. Then the guy starts back up about the ball. Hubert lays his cue down and picks up a piece of chalk walks over to the guy grabs him and starts grinding the chalk on his nose. Hubert said if you are going to be involved in the game I guess I better chalk you up.
Bobbi said this made him a little nervous because he was task with holding Huberts towel. There was a 357 in the towel.
 
Terry Ardeno said:
The proper vernacular for such a character in pooldom is "tush-hog", of which Hubert "DaddyWarbucks" Cokes (Dec 19, 1898-Feb 13, 1978) was the grandaddy of 'em all.
Besides being ornery, quick tempered and always carrying AT LEAST 2 handguns, he was purported to have been directly involved in the "demise" of several, what's the word I'm looking for....."people who wronged him."
My favorite story about him is where he allegedly "*****-slapped" Baby Face Nelson and Nelson was too intimidated to retaliate.

He was the one who took Nick Varner on the road and while acting as his tush-hog, gave Nicky the nick-name of "The little gorilla" for how tough and tenacious Nick was in gambling sessions.

Cokes made the majority of his money in the oil business and was a regular at the Johnson City tournaments, both as a player and backer.

I have a 5x7 photo of him hanging in my poolroom. I would have loved to meet him in person
Click to expand...

Yeah, a true gunslinger. I first read about him in "Hustler Days."
 
will8834 said:
Here is a stroy about Hubert I had posted before. Repost for those who missed it.

Another good story Bobbi Newbols told me about Hubert at the Joston city tourney. Hubert was playing Danny Dilaberto and there was a argument about the ball count. They were playing one pocket. Finally Hubert said we can go into the bathroom and finish this argument. Danny said forget it the ball is yours. There was a guy in the stands telling Danny not to let him mave the ball. Danny said you go in the bathroom with him and work it out tghen. The guy shut up for a short while. Then tghe guy starts back up about the ball. Hubert lays his cue down and picks up a piece of chalk walks over to the guy grabs him and starts grinding the chalk on his nose. Hubert said if you are going to be involved in the game I guess I better chalk you up.
Bobbi said this made him a little nervous because he was task with holding Huberts towel. There was a 357 in the towel.
Click to expand...

Yep, but you forgot that when he was done chalking his nose, Cokes picked him up and hung him by the back of the collar on a coathook on the wall and said "If you want your nose in my business so bad, then I guess you must want to watch too!". Turning to the gawking railbirds, he said "And don't nobody take hime done either!"

I wish so bad I could have met him.
 
Terry Ardeno said:
The proper vernacular for such a character in pooldom is "tush-hog", of which Hubert "DaddyWarbucks" Cokes (Dec 19, 1898-Feb 13, 1978) was the grandaddy of 'em all.
Besides being ornery, quick tempered and always carrying AT LEAST 2 handguns, he was purported to have been directly involved in the "demise" of several, what's the word I'm looking for....."people who wronged him."
My favorite story about him is where he allegedly "*****-slapped" Baby Face Nelson and Nelson was too intimidated to retaliate.
Click to expand...

Here's a nice little article about JC, Fats, Cokes, etc.

"Other road legends showed up in Johnston City. There was Hubert "DaddyWarbucks" Cokes, a septuagenarian oilman who carried a shotgun with fourbarrels "to make up for my poor eyesight." Fats revered him."


http://www.madison.com/archives/read.php?ref=/tct/2003/08/01/0308010130.php
 
Terry Ardeno said:
Johnny,
Lately, I've given you enough props and atta boys and compliments on these forums to make most people sick in the belly. If I was any sweeter to you, I would have given you a cavity.
So, with those niceities out of the way, I have a question. Would you ever consider doing an autobiography book? I have only asked that of Freddy before on these forums, although I wish several pro players would do so.
Not to inflate your ego, but you do got some fun stories and a unique way of expressing yourself.:D
I for one wish you would write your life story. It's got everything I've always liked....guns, shooting, fighting, dangerous situations, funny characters and pool.
Give it some thought.
And don't worry about the statue of limitations.:eek:
Click to expand...

Yes I'm writing a book from my teenage gang years, criminal activities, my pool hustling days, and up until I changed my ways and become a nurse to help people not hurt them.

There are a lot more people on AZBilliards more interesting than me. They were real road players who played the best in the world. I'm very small potato's compared to them. Johnnyt
 
A thanks

Those that know me know I ain't exactly a 98 pound weakling myself but I do owe some thanks to the muscle that had my back over the years. Louis C and AG, Lawrence D, Mike S, and a few more. It wasn't that I played for huge money but things could get a little rough some of the places I played. A nice little biker bar that my girlfriend ran for example.

Two guys had been mouthing off for awhile at each other until everyone was bored with them. Don decided he was ready to fight and reached in his belt to lay his pistol on the bar. Johnny saw the pistol flash and slapped Don upside the head with the large glass beer mug he had his hand around and they went to rolling around on the floor. Every other man in the place came up with a gun, at least half the ladies did. I yanked up my t-shirt, reached and jerked out a whole handful of belly hair. I hate it when that happens! My gun was a little awkward to carry playing pool and was outside, useless as teats on a boar hog. Never knew when somebody was gonna take advantage of the uproar to get in a free shot. There was a gun or two that went off but it was all accidental with everyone trying to get a gun out at once.

Hu
 
I can say since i loved pool so much and the action where i lived in the pool halls was dead for me i started back from where i picked up the game,in the bars.I started making the rounds in alot of bars anywhere from 5 minutes away to 30 minutes away,some places i knew and had friends and others i didnt but i enjoyed the new players and you never knew what to expect.I might go into a bar and fights breaking out,i might go in and take some drug dealing wannabe gangster for a few hundred,i might be lucky to get a game for a drink or $5,anything could happen and you just dont know who is ready to go off.I can say this for certain playing in the poolrooms for a $100 a game is far safer then playing for $5 in one of these roadhouse bars.One of the most valuable things i learned from the best bar player in my area who doesnt make the rounds anymore was that you can tell alot by a guy when he wins,so i would dump a game or 2 and see if the guy was a braggart or a jerk before i would gamble and try to take his money,usually i could tell whether the guy was going to be trouble or not. :cool:
 
When I owned my poolroom in Bakersfield, I would occasionally get a call to play someone in one of the many bars around town. Jim Jeffries was always on the lookout for pool games, as he hung out in bars all over town. He sometimes worked as a bouncer and was also one of the best ever at shaking dice out of cup. In other words a hustler. Jim could play pool, but not like me. He would call me when the going got too tough, and I could usually take it down. We won money together several times.

So one time he calls me to come to a rough bar in Oildale to play some oil field worker who no one could beat. The guy was from Texas is all I remember. We get to playing $10, then $20 Eight Ball. All his buddies from the rig are sweating the game and Jim is betting with several of them too. All together we are playing for about $50 a game, a pretty big bet in the 70's. I finally get the feel of the table, and now I'm running out most games, and we are starting to make some cash.

At this point, vague threats begin to be heard. Some of the drunk oil field workers aren't taking kindly to losing their money and begin to shark me. They are saying things when I'm shooting, and talking like we are going to get our asses kicked. Frankly, I was getting worried. Jim is a bad dude but he is only 5'10" or so and maybe 175 pounds. All these guys, and there must have been four or five of them, are bigger than him. He does not look like a tough guy either, clean cut and handsome.

After the next game was over (I won), Jim told me to hold up. I had no idea what he was going to do. He gets right next to the table and starts talking loud, so everyone can hear him. "We came in here to shoot pool, and that's what we're doing. If we win we're gonna get paid and if we lose we'll pay off. But if we win, we're taking the money and leaving. DOES EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND! If anyone thinks any different, speak up and we'll settle it right now". There was complete silence in the bar. All the big bad riggers got a case of lock jaw. Jim stood there for more than a minute, asking again if anyone had a problem with us winning. No one said boo.

I went on to rob the guy after that and we chopped up over $400 outside. Jim Jeffries was a serious guy. He later killed a guy with his fists outside a Bakersfield bar. Jim was the bouncer and he was throwing the guy out when the fight started. Jim got off.
 
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jay helfert said:
When I owned my poolroom in Bakersfield, I would occasionally get a call to play someone in one of the many bars around town. Jim Jeffries was always on the lookout for pool games, as he hung out in bars all over town. He sometimes worked as a bouncer and was also one of the best ever at shaking dice out of cup. In other words a hustler. Jim could play pool, but not like me. He would call me when the going got too tough, and I could usually take it down. We won money together several times.

So one time he calls me to come to a rough bar in Oildale to play some oil field worker who no one could beat. The guy was from Texas is all I remember. We get to playing $10, then $20 Eight Ball. All his buddies from the rig are sweating the game and Jim is betting with several of them too. All together we are playing for about $50 a game, a pretty big bet in the 70's. I finally get the feel of the table, and now I'm running out most games, and we are starting to make some cash.

At this point, vague threats begin to be heard. Some of the drunk oil field workers aren't taking kindly to losing their money and begin to shark me. They are saying things when I'm shooting, and talking like we are going to get our asses kicked. Frankly, I was getting worried. Jim is a bad dude but he is only 5'10" or so and maybe 175 pounds. All these guys, and there must have been four or five of them, are bigger than him. He does not look like a tough guy either, clean cut and handsome.

After the next game was over (I won), Jim told me to hold up. I had no idea what he was going to do. He gets right next to the table and starts talking loud, so everyone can hear him. "We came in here to shoot pool, and that's what we're doing. If we win we're gonna get paid and if we lose we'll pay off. But if we win, we're taking the money and leaving. DOES EVERYBODY UNDERSTAND! If anyone thinks any different, speak up and we'll settle it right now". There was complete silence in the bar. All the big bad riggers got a case of lock jaw. Jim stood there for more than a minute, asking again if anyone had a problem with us winning. No one said boo.

I went on to rob the guy after that and we chopped up over $400 outside. Jim Jeffries was a serious guy. He later killed a guy with his fists outside a Bakersfield bar. Jim was the bouncer and he was throwing the guy out when the fight started. Jim got off.
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People always underestimate the little guys,speed and knowing how to use it can equal alot of power,i have met guys who had a 100 pounds on me who couldnt punch as hard,you gotta put your ass and hips into it.The biggest thing is being cool and calm in heated situations,it does wonders and gives a big advantage,plus you gotta know when to walk away if possible too,when its 5 to 1 its no fun. :cool:
 
Fast Lenny said:
People always underestimate the little guys,speed and knowing how to use it can equal alot of power,i have met guys who had a 100 pounds on me who couldnt punch as hard,you gotta put your ass and hips into it.The biggest thing is being cool and calm in heated situations,it does wonders and gives a big advantage,plus you gotta know when to walk away if possible too,when its 5 to 1 its no fun. :cool:
Click to expand...

When it's 5 to 1 it's time 4 the gun. Johnnyt
 
Johnnyt said:
When it's 5 to 1 it's time 4 the gun. Johnnyt
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There, see what I mean! I'm going to start marking all them funny lines down in a notebook so I can remember them.:D

(Was you serious about being a nurse now or you pulling my leg?):confused:
 
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