The way they are conducting their business makes it very hard to be 100% behind them. They don't care about pool, just themselves. IMO.
Let's Boycott the ABP and their affiliates
- Thread starter dom_poppa
- Start date
The way they are conducting their business makes it very hard to be 100% behind them. They don't care about pool, just themselves. IMO.
Its clear to me your experience around professional pool is very limited. Give yourself a education and spend 20 more years around pool and then you understand their point. Nobody wants to boycott anything-thats why the press release was done now and not 2 weeks before the event, it gives all parties enough time to work things out so there will be a US Open. I dont have a horse in this race, I hope it all works out.
The economy is not helping Barry or the players, perhaps the US Open as it was is not economically viable and Barry might need to rearrange things. Nothing lasts forever, 35 years is a very long time for anything in business, and that is what the US Open is-its just a business transaction that lasts 3 or 4 days every year(I cant remember right now i'm tired). Thats what any pool tournemnt is nothing more or less. The Mosconi Cup is a TV show once a year. If the ratings go down its gonna get the axe too. Dont make pool out to be something its not.
Things run their course, there are peaks and valleys in all markets, events and shows. No mater how successful something is-it never lasts forever. I cant lay anything on the players or Barry thats for them to work out. But to drag Nick Varner and his website into this is shitting where you eat and short sited.
like I said, I hope it works out for everyone,
fatboy
First off, I said the Post was ignorant and I stand by that. Second, I've addressed everything you've had to say with logic, something you obviously lack.
All I said was the players deserve to get paid on time and you brought up gambling and them being stupid for doing so......so as you can see, it's not possible to have an intelligent argument with you because you are emotional and missing the point.
I brought up the Open you went off on a tangent saying he has a very profitable pool room that covers his loses or what not....(which you factually don't know for sure either)..............so explain to me again how you would like me to have an intelligent argument with you?
You said the open has lost money for 35 years, I called you out on that and you said "Those were Barry words"......yes they were, the very same words you were validating as if you knew for fact. I can go back and forth with you all night but the point is.....it's pointless.
If you have a (Quote from above post)" very profitable pool room" with 35 to 40 tables with a full bar and kitchen with full menu and 30 to 40 employees. The pool room has been there for close to 20 years you should have a business that is profitable enough to front a venture 40k to 60K for a month or two untill Barry gets all his money from vendors. Mika is stilled owed 10K dollars. Get all the facts
easy-e look at it this way: they are pro pool, shouldnt they care about themselves? if they take action than makes promoters change how they do business isnt that good for the game? if you could actually make a living playing pro pool similiar to the way golfers or tennis pros do wouldnt that encourage more young pple to take up pool? again good for the game. these players deserve our 100 percent support and it we dont give it to them then we are the ones who dont really care about pool, only ourselves, which may really be what this forum is all about anyway...
brian
Right on Brian!
He doesn't say Barry's lost money for 35 years, he says Barry's put on the Open for 35 years, even when he's lost money (like after 9/11).
Go read the post again.
Is this not implying he was putting on the Open for the past 35 years while losing money?
That's not the way I read it.
Besides, a little research done by reading the earlier threads on this subject will pretty much confirm that the US Open is, more or less, a break even proposition. The biggest thing that contributes to Barry not making a profit during a bad year (or a bigger profit during a good year) is that HE ADDS THIS MONEY TO THE PRIZE FUND.
I respect that you want to support the players in this, but getting into these kinds of "he said/she said" p1551ng matches on a forum like this will get you nowhere.
Again, much respect.
I have tried to look at it that way. While I do think you make some very good points, I just don't think their goals are either realistic, or good for pool. I will try to address each point you made.
- Yes, they should care about themselves. Everyone should, not just pro pool players. They want seeding in tournaments. I won't enter a tournament like the US Open if they seed it, I want everyone to have the same opportunity as everyone else. I am not alone on that point. I would think a move like that will drive more amateurs out of their tournament, which will lower the participation numbers, which could turn off the sponsors and vendors. That doesn't sound like a winning deal to me.
- I think they are right to want to be paid on time, who wouldn't want that? I think the only way to make that happen would be to add less money, something that may not be too appealing to the pro players. Or they could have some wealthy people hold the tournament, but the past has shown that there is little to no money to be made by investing in tournaments.
- There is no way that pool players will ever make the kind of money that golfers or tennis players make. For some reason, most people find pool boring to watch (I am one of them). I don't believe there is a remedy for that.
- I absolutely care about pool. Organized pool may be a little different. I won't lose a minute of sleep if all pro pool tournaments vanished forever. I really don't think any pool rooms would suffer greatly from that either. It might actually be good for me if that happened, I could get a great discount on a new Diamond table for my basement! Does that make me selfish? Maybe. But it's not pool that I don't care about, it's the pro players who choose to boycott certain events that don't meet their expectations while participating in others that also don't meet their expectations.
Maybe I have been rubbed the wrong way by the last ABP member who logged in telling us that we have no idea what the pros go through, wants our support, but won't even identify himself.
I hope I am wrong. If this boycott results in bigger paydays, more participation by amateurs, and thriving pool-related businesses, than I will be the first one to write a formal apology to EVERYONE. I just don't see it helping.
-Eric
Which came first, the chicken or the egg? :embarrassed2:
I agree. That is a GREAT synopsis of the current state of affairs. Well written, polite, and excellent points contained within.
One thing we know for sure, is that the ABP members would rather play in the US Open than boycott. Barry Behrman would like them to play in his tournament. We would like to see them play in the Open. It's time to stop the posturing and lock them in a room together until they can hammer out a solution.
Polarizing the fans, sponsors, and other players is doing nothing for pool. It is driving a stake in the heart of the game. Other professional sports have paid the price for their strikes which took years for them to reestablish their popularity with fans.
The players need to get paid and Barry knows this. It should be burned into his SOP by now, so let's quit all the bull$hit. The point has been made...pool needs both groups to move forward or splinter what little we have as a recognized professional sport.
I don't want to be on one side of the fence. I want to friggin' destroy the fence and whomever and whatever built it. Let's quit woofin'. Time is growing short. Rack 'em up!
Best,
Mike
Polarizing the fans, sponsors, and other players is doing nothing for pool. It is driving a stake in the heart of the game. Other professional sports have paid the price for their strikes which took years for them to reestablish their popularity with fans.
The players need to get paid and Barry knows this. It should be burned into his SOP by now, so let's quit all the bull$hit. The point has been made...pool needs both groups to move forward or splinter what little we have as a recognized professional sport.
I don't want to be on one side of the fence. I want to friggin' destroy the fence and whomever and whatever built it. Let's quit woofin'. Time is growing short. Rack 'em up!
Best,
Mike
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I agree. That is a GREAT synopsis of the current state of affairs. Well written, polite, and excellent points contained within.
All sports, almost every single one of them, have seeding. Tennis, football, basketball, and on and on and on..
There is a reason for seeding, and a damn good one. Pools argument that it might drive off more amateurs is just absured... what's the reasoning? Because they might lose because they might have to play a top flight pro in the first round
Get outta here.. that's called sports.. does pool want to try to become a sport?
We will see
Pools argument that it might drive off more amateurs is just absured... what's the reasoning? Because they might lose because they might have to play a top flight pro in the first round
Us amateurs don't want to play a top player early in the tournament for the exact same reason that the pros don't want to. Why shouldn't the draw be random if we are all paying the same amount to play?
the rooster!
The above quote is the most ASSINE statement I have ever heard . Say you go to the bank, make a deposit. Come back the next day and want to make a withdrawal and the teller tells you not today "maybe" some other day. You would find this totally unexceptionable & rightly so,When you pay your entry fee to a tournament you EXPECT to get paid at the end of the tournament PERIOD anything less than that is FRAUD, Stop this BS skirting the reality of the issue. Secondly everyone pays the same entry,there should be a RANDOM drawing which doesn't give a edge anyone individual . I despise this giving top players preference. They paid the same money as I did,their money is of no less importance to them as mine is to me .
All sports, almost every single one of them, have seeding. Tennis, football, basketball, and on and on and on..
There is a reason for seeding, and a damn good one. Pools argument that it might drive off more amateurs is just absured... what's the reasoning? Because they might lose because they might have to play a top flight pro in the first round
Get outta here.. that's called sports.. does pool want to try to become a sport?
We will see
Paksat, I for sure understand what you mean by wanting pool to elevate to become a true sport. Wouldn't that be fantastic!
The thing is, you can't compare pool to tennis, football, and basketball in 2011 when pool tournament payouts pale in comparison. Pool isn't anywhere near what those sports are, not even close.
These pros compete in, say, the Joss Tour tournament in Turning Stone, where there's $25,000 added. Some of those competitors in that event patronize the Joss Tour year-round. Why should, as an example, Johnny Archer, who does *not* play in the Joss Tour tournaments, other than Turning Stone, get a head start in a foot race against a *regular* Joss Tour patron? It does not make sense to me. First off, Johnny doesn't need a head start in any race against a social shooter or an amateur. If anything, he should be spotting them in the race, but I'm sure that won't go over very well.
Anyway, I understand your point, but for all intents and purposes, as much as I loathe to say this, pool is not a sport. It's a recreational game played by social shooters, leagues, and recreational folk. Those few so-called "pros" that do exist are a rare breed. I predict they will diminish, much like the action player of the '80s did, because it's not possible to live that lifestyle unless you have a corpulent backer, stakehorse, or sponsor paying their expenses. How many American pros have that? I can count them on one hand. :frown: