Let's Look @ Archer's Break Now

mosconiac

mosconiac

Job+Wife+Child=No Stroke
Silver Member
Now that we've had a healthy discussion on SVB's break, let's talk about another great breaker and how he compares to the other top rack-crushers.

I shot a pair of clips of Johnny Archer breaking at the 2007 DCC 10B ring game. Fortunately, I was able to get him from two different angles. Here are the two vids:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NXTA2n-qkwY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmWyiZ73ymg

The more you study the break techniques of the best breakers out there, you will find distinct similarlities. Buste, Hohmann, SVB, Nevel, & JA for example all have distinctly different looking forms, but they ALL have significant commonality. I will point out these common factors out in this thread. These specific items are what we have to pull into our own natural rhythm to develop the most productive break.

SET:
Johnny sets up for the break very low...just as Buste, Hohmann, SVB, & Nevel do. You will note his arm position is vertical and looks as if he could be shooting a normal shot. From here, Johnny takes a series of quick practice strokes and you will note how loose his arm appears...NO TENSION! Interstingly, JA does not use the forward hand position that Buste, Hohmann, SVB, & Nevel do.

JABreakShot1.jpg


BACKSWING:
Johnny takes his final backswing and although it is difficult to see in the video because it all happens so fast, Johnny's hand opens up (wrist cocks) and stays near motionless as he transitions into the forward swing. I have noticed this same pause (no matter how brief) in ALL of the top breakers. Note the hand position has raised the butt of the cue significantly. I have noticed this same elevation in ALL of the top breakers.

JABreakShot2.jpg


TRANSITION:
As Johnny starts his forward move, his body starts to rise up and his elbow slides behind his body. I have noticed this same elbow movement in ALL of the top breakers.

JABreakShot4.jpg

JABreakShot3.jpg

JABreakShot5.jpg


FOLLOW-THRU:
You will notice here that Johnny's body has risen straight up so there is nowhere for the arm to go but around his body on the follow-thru. This is what gives Johnny his charactersitic (exaggerated) elbow-out follow-thru motion. You will notice many similarities in Jon Kucharo's break video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O21AsO3g9Ms

JABreakShot11.jpg

JABreakShot6.jpg

JABreakShot7.jpg

JABreakShot8.jpg


Now take a look at these vids and see if you can see the common elevated baskswing, elbow tuck, pause at the back as the body rises, and wrist cock...

Buste: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1lGmxqPNd8
SVB: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YCBs6T2kMI
Nevel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMmq2UXrNf0
Hohmann: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Txpzb8wpuKY

BTW, no one tops Buste's elevation & wrist cock!!
BusteElevation.jpg



EDIT: I've added evaluations of Charlie Bryant's and Larry Nevel's breaks here:

CB: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=125466
LN: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=126254
 
Last edited:
Very cool stuff!!

Check out How Hillbilly transitions his body when breaking......Generates LOTS of power!
 
cajunbarboxplyr said:
Very cool stuff!!

Check out How Hillbilly transitions his body when breaking......Generates LOTS of power!
Click to expand...
Yup! And another *powerful* breaker is Evgeny Stalev:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PkCG3q2PDa4

(Go to 9:20 in the video, to see the first of Evgeny's bone-crushing breaks. And, the cueball doesn't hop around on the table either!)

Evgeny's break seems to originate more from the arm and chest (pectoral muscle), rather than from body momentum, because his body doesn't seem to move all that much.

-Sean
 
sfleinen said:
Yup! And another *powerful* breaker is Evgeny Stalev:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PkCG3q2PDa4

(Go to 9:20 in the video, to see the first of Evgeny's bone-crushing breaks. And, the cueball doesn't hop around on the table either!)

Evgeny's break seems to originate more from the arm and chest (pectoral muscle), rather than from body momentum, because his body doesn't seem to move all that much.

-Sean
Click to expand...

He and Busty really have a big backswing and high cue elevation. Probably would take a lot of time to make that effective.
 
Can someone tell me what cue exactly it is archer uses for playing here's a video of the cues he uses his playing cue is the one closest to him, you get a good view of it at 1.09, the reason I ask is because he says he gets all his cues from the scorpion factory as made no modifications but I can't find it on the scorpion cues website:

Anyway here's the video

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Uuh2VAFCpjs
 
Im not Johnny Archer, but I will add my 2 cents into this thread. From my experience breaking keeping your hand on the table while your cue follows through all the way gets way better results than lifting your cue into the air.

I like the way shane does it, less power lots of follow through. He keeps his hand ON the table, and does not raise his bridge hand into the air. I think this is very important, for getting the best results, and power.

When I keep my hand on the table and follow through like shane does I get amazingly good results. If I lift my bridge hand off the table after my follow through I lose so much power and get very poor results.

Bringing your cue into the air can't help anything. But keeping your cue straight, and inline with the shot all the way through the follow through can only help.

When I get a really good break going I usually follow through all the way sometimes passed the Joint, and the tip is almost at the cueball where it contacts the 1. I have never hit a ball following through that much, and I usually pull away in time if something like that occurs.
 
nice post and a cool read....imma have to try the elevated elbow mess...but nevel's and archers are almost identical in those vid's posted. thanks for taking the time to post these...cool story.
 
Interesting observation about the elbow tuck. I've noticed the same tendency in my arm. Maybe our arms are just built so that when they go back, and you keep the elbow bent, the elbow wants to tuck in. Or maybe it's that he's adding power with the hip torquing so the elbow tuck is actually the body rotating a little away from the break, and then it rotates the opposite direction on the final swing.

Look how feathery and light busty grips even on the break, with 3 fingers seemingly completely taken out of the process. Whereas shane is grabbing with all fingers.
 
Amazing to me how these YEARS OLD threads keep resurfacing. Here's the facts folks...the CB is gone from the tip in 1/1000th of a second. It doesn't matter what you do with your body, it has no bearing on the outcome or result. The question is why do the top pros do what they do? The answer is that they all devote years of practice to eccentric movement. Personally, I'd rather practice a smooth transition from the final backswing to the forward stroke...and let the cue do the work. You get just as good a result (and for the majority of us, a better result), without all the gyrations and antics, imo.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
 
Scott Lee said:
Amazing to me how these YEARS OLD threads keep resurfacing. Here's the facts folks...the CB is gone from the tip in 1/1000th of a second. It doesn't matter what you do with your body, it has no bearing on the outcome or result. The question is why do the top pros do what they do? The answer is that they all devote years of practice to eccentric movement. Personally, I'd rather practice a smooth transition from the final backswing to the forward stroke...and let the cue do the work. You get just as good a result (and for the majority of us, a better result), without all the gyrations and antics, imo.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...

Scott:

I heartily agree on both fronts. First, where are all these old threads bubbling up from? I know we're having earthquakes and volcanoes erupting at our current point in time; is there a magma or methane gas build up someplace causing all these old threads to resurface? :D

As for the simplicity vs. eccentricity in motion on the break shot, I agree as well. For me, I'll take a nice relaxed, fluid, simple break like this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=PkCG3q2PDa4#t=560

...over this:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=O21AsO3g9Ms

...any day! In that second example, that contraption breaking the balls is about to fly apart -- any bystanders better duck, otherwise they'll get a spring or a cotter pin right in the eye! :eek:

-Sean
 
JoeW...Nope, the photos don't lie. However, someone can choose to try to copy something a handful of people on the planet can do really well (and practice it for YEARS)...OR they can choose to keep movement simple, and use the weight of the cue and timing, to create a perfect break shot! For the HUGE majority of us mortals, the latter makes much more sense, imo!

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

JoeW said:
Here are some interesting photos of breaks and other shots by pros that I collected and wrote about.

http://www.sunburstselect.com/PBReview/ShootLikePros.htm

Not everyone agrees with my ideas but the photos don't lie. The first few and the last are break shots by the pros.
Click to expand...
 
Scott Lee said:
Amazing to me how these YEARS OLD threads keep resurfacing. Here's the facts folks...the CB is gone from the tip in 1/1000th of a second. It doesn't matter what you do with your body, it has no bearing on the outcome or result. The question is why do the top pros do what they do? The answer is that they all devote years of practice to eccentric movement. Personally, I'd rather practice a smooth transition from the final backswing to the forward stroke...and let the cue do the work. You get just as good a result (and for the majority of us, a better result), without all the gyrations and antics, imo.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
Click to expand...


This thread at least is dealing with what happens before the tip hits the cue ball, which I think is relevant to the break shot. Every player's power break shot has more moving parts than just the arm. Synchronizing those moving parts is important.

The break shot is like the drive in golf. It requires more body movement to maximize the cue speed. Most other pool shots are like the golf putt, where simple is better.
 
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