Lil John's Big Stakes

My scores are never that big, and I don't make much money at work, but if I wanted $200 I am pretty sure I could come up with the money. Guess he didn't want the case that badly. It sucks that people go out of their way to give someone a "deal" and get pooped on.
 
1pRoscoe said:
I guess the saying is right..... there are three sides to a story.

Jack - my apologies, I was given first hand information two which didn't appear to be accurate, however I think there is also a third, but it's irrelevant at this point.
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Hi Ross,
No problem....I understand how things can get twisted around.
Regards,
Jack
 
1pRoscoe said:
Good article!!

Like a mobster or a boxer, a pool hustler doesn't reach his apotheosis until he gets a nickname. So it is that the Republic of Pool includes a Mechanic as well as an Exterminator; a Freezer and a Heater; a Scorpion and a Black Widow. As a scrawny 17-year-old, John Macias of Hattiesburg, Miss., took on the prosaic handle Little John. In the ensuing decade he not only sprouted to six feet but also became the biggest pool gambler in the country. "No one plays higher than Little John," says Jerry (Pittsburgh) Slivka, an accomplished fellow hustler.

Dripping attitude and hair gel, Little John, now 27, claims that last year he busted one player in Cahokia, Ill., for $65,000 and another in Detroit for $50,000. He seldom plays for less than $2,000 a set, and the sticker shock is part of his M.O. "Guys say, 'Let's go for $100,'" he says. "I say, 'Shoot, where I'm from, that's not even considered gambling. When you want to play some real pool, let me know.'"

Countless times, Little John has gone to professional events as a fan and hustled action after the matches have ended for the evening. By the end of the weekend he's been $35,000 to the good, while the winner of the 128-player event has earned $7,500 (and a W-2 form). But Little John loses plenty big, too. Not long ago he drove to New Orleans and lost $60,000. The worst part? He had brought his fiancée to watch. "I had $20,000 on me," says Aprille Kervin, rolling her eyes. "I felt like an ATM."

Says Little John with a shrug, "Hell, I promote my losses. You have to lose sometimes, or no one will play you."

Still, Little John wins so often that he doesn't exactly lead Eddie Felson's life. He and Kervin have a well-appointed home alongside a private golf course in Hattiesburg's most exclusive subdivision. Their two-year-old daughter, Lexi, wants for nothing. If the right opponent is willing to play him on his home table at Snake's Palace -- a, um, flavorful joint hard by the Southern Miss campus -- Macias will pay the airfare.

Little John resents certain facets of his profession -- the 200 nights a year on the road, the physical strain of matches that can span 30 hours, his subterranean credit rating despite an annual income that he expects to be north of six figures -- but it beats the hell out of working for $500 a week at a local car lot, the lone "honest" job he says he ever held. "I've never done drugs," he continues, "but there can't be a higher high than going into some town and taking on a guy and all his backers, being up against the nuts and busting 'em all."

In his years of caroming off America's rails, Macias has gotten into few serious beefs. Even when there were 50 or 60 large under the light, he either got his money or paid up. So he wasn't sure how to react when he was robbed last May. He had flown to Boston to play Tony Ruberto. Each placed his $17,000 stake under the table and played for a few hours. Little John took a bathroom break. When he returned, all the money was gone. "There's one of me and a bunch of them," he says. "What could I do?"

Little John exacted his revenge with a postmodern twist. He got on his computer and wrote an account of the "Boston Area Action" on a message board at a popular pool site, azbilliards.com. He concluded that "the Boston area is no good for action, and we all know someone in Tony's click [sic] got the money." The gambit worked masterfully. Ruberto maintains that he and his backers had nothing to do with the missing loot. ("We got our money back," Ruberto told SI. "Let's just say it wasn't pretty.") But by all accounts, his action has dried up around Boston.

While Little John has "yet to see dime one," he says, he's recovered fine. As his saga reverberated in the Internet echo chamber, he won sympathy from all corners. He was invited to play on the International Pool Tour, the new eight-ball circuit (box, below).

Last week, as Little John ticked off his recent run of good fortune, his cellphone chirped. The caller reported that there might be action in Corpus Christi. For Little John it was another number to program into his phone, another player to Google later that night. Sure enough, the next morning he packed up his cues and gadgets and chargers and, like a one-man circus, headed off to the next town, trying to divorce another sucker from the contents of his pockets.
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Little John can't pay $200.00 for a case he ordered but he can jet set around the nation playing high stakes ..... but comes up with huge money for his pool playing !!!!!!!!!
 
Jack Justis said:
I can't believe I am responding to this but this is the facts as they happened.

Last March at the SBE, Sarah Rousey came to my booth and introduced LilJon and stated he would like one of my cases. I wrote up the order which came to a total of $620 including shipping. I explained to him that I do not discount my prices but since he was well known on the gambling circuit and a friend of Sarah's I would make an exception to my policy and reduced the price of the case to $300 including shipping. He mentioned that he was short and gave me $100 deposit and said, just call me when the case is ready and I will send the $200 balance. I called Jon around the end of April and told him the case was ready to ship. He asked if I could bring the case to Vegas on May 15 since he would be playing in the 8-Ball Championships. I agreed and gave him my cell # to call when he arrived. After not hearing from him, I called and was informed he would be there the next day. Several days passed and no word. Called again and was informed he would not be making the trip to Vegas. He told me he would put a check in the mail and that I was to ship the case upon our return to Florida. Upon our return to Florida, you guessed it, no check. We then called at least 5 times and each time was given excuses about being robbed twice in one week but would send the check in a few days. The days grew into weeks until I finally gave up and put the case on ebay. Case sold on ebay for $320 plus the $100 deposit. It's not about the $200 I lost for being the nice guy, its about honesty and integrity. When someone tells you one thing and does another, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I had just about gotten rid of that taste when the article appeared. I did learn a lesson though.....get the money up front....LOL.
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Now that's one hellava discount, I've owned one of your 3x6 cases since 1996 of which I am more than pleased with, and it has held up quite well.
 
Jack,

I apologize for all of that. I didn't think he would have a problem coming up with the money and I apologize for putting you in that situation. I guess the both of us have learned a lesson.

Sarah
 
sarahrousey said:
Jack,

I apologize for all of that. I didn't think he would have a problem coming up with the money and I apologize for putting you in that situation. I guess the both of us have learned a lesson.

Sarah
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Sarah,
Don't worry one bit about this....it wasn't your fault at all. Your about ready for a new ProLite if my dates are correct. Just let me know.
 
IS HE For Real?

Don't know the man but sounds kinda fishy that after all his big stakes that he can't come up with that little money even from a backer. to keep his name in good standing and how come I have never heard of him before this article, also has he beaten any of the big names for big stakes? like Efren or Keith, or Earl.
 
Okay Jack, I believe your story. It sounds like you dealt with john at a bad time, but it looks to me that John is out a $100 himself here. That seems to be a reasonable penalty for backing out of a deal for a case. I understand your frustration though, that ordeal would make anyone angry. Also, I understand that you lost money in this deal. However, IMO there are better ways of handling these situations. Let me tell you what I think likely happened. I would be willing to bet that he got cleaned out before the Vegas trip and thats the reason you didn't get your money. All need to understand, that he does this for a living and he has a family to consider. Try and imagine losing everything you have and having to figure out how to get that back before you and your family are resorted to standing in the soup line. Most have never been in that predicament, but for a career gambler it happens very often. It is an extremely difficult life, especially with a family. It is understandable to me, that if he was in that situation at the time, that he would be forced to bypass certain luxuries like a nice case. I'm sure he felt bad about it and would offer his apology if he saw you again. He probably told you that he would pay you ASAP based solely on his confidence that he would get it all back in a timely manner. That's just how john thinks and what really makes him who he is. Unfortunately, it doesn't always happen as he would like. The action runs dry and when you're busted it's hard to get back on your feet sometimes. Yea, he books phenomenol winners on occassion, but he also loses big. (for all those wondering why he can't pay when he's winning $60,000, etc) And when he loses sometimes, he loses it all. The point is, if john did the things you say he did, there was a good reason for it. It wasn't because he wanted to screw you over, it was because he just couldn't afford to pay you in all likelihood. For this reason I attacked your post, I know john very, very well and I've seen him in similar situations in the past. Along with every other career gambler I've ever met I might add. Its just the way it is my friend. On occassion, they put themselves in bad shape and it seriously effects all associated with them. However, once guys like john get out of those ruts they make it right, they pay all that they owe and everyone is happy. I know that you waited weeks for your money, but I also KNOW that you would've gotten it once he was able to pay it. Let's forget all of this nonsense though, there are better things to talk about. Jack, you seem like a nice guy and I'm not trying to get on your bad side here. You have a tremendous talent and I've always been impressed with your work. Just my 2 cents and nothing more.

Oh and to LowEnglish....yea I guess I was rambling a little...give me a break man I'm not William Shakespeare, had a few beers yesterday too..haha

1PRoscoe....whereabouts you from...Hattiesburg??
 
poolhalljunkie....he's played most of them...not sure about Efren though. does anyone play that guy anymore??? not if they like money I suspect

oh..his name is in good standing and always will be as far as I'm concerned
 
okay...thought we may have known each other. sounds like you know john pretty well. If you see him..tell him shane said hey. I always seem to miss him when I go home for leave. The old number i got for him seems to be out of commission so I haven't talked to him in a while. I'm stationed here in Virginia and intended to go to the open this year and hollar at him, but couldn't make it unfortunately. Me and that guy have been in the same fox hole a few times...let me tell ya. I miss the pool world sometimes, retired my cue and gave it up a while back. All these young shortstops i remember are at the top of the food chain these days it seems. Well, take care. Oh, any idea what little Robby is up to these days?? I haven't seen him in many years...don't know if he quit or what happened. Talented player though,

see ya
 
Housestick said:
I don't know what the deal is with your little $200, but your hit and run tactics everytime john's name is mentioned is getting old. I've known john for almost 20 years. I remember when he was 4 foot tall and couldn't make two balls in a row. And yes he has his faults and yes he has aired a few people in his day, but not once have I seen him not make it right once he was able to. Maybe he still owes you money, maybe not, I don't know what the deal is here. Players like john go busted from time to time though, its the nature of being a gambler who takes risk. If your were to call him, I can almost guarantee that if he owes you money he would pay you, even if $200 was all that he had left to his name. Also, what is your agreement with the customer when they order a custom case? Are they forced then to buy it? My guess would be no, or else you would force them to pay all up front, right? And if you just send cases to whomever on credit, well whose fault is it when you don't recieve your money? Even so, I can assure you that John would be more than happy to get square with you, if he hasn't already. Hell, I'll pay the balance myself if you want. I still owe john for a couch I bought from him a while back. The simple fact is that in this business everyone owes from time to time....all REAL pool players who haven't owed at some point in their life please make yourself known. The only thing that seperates the people in the pool world are the ones who eventually make it right and those who don't. I know many upper tier players, one fantastic one-hole player in particular, that owes thousands to numerous people and has never even offered to pay a nickel on the balance. John is not and has never been like that, that I KNOW to be a fact.

Players like John are a rarity these days and sometimes you have to take a little bad with the good like with all things. One of his predominate characteristics is that he doesn't quit until he is flat busted most of the time. If he matches up with someone he's usually in it until the money is gone and all credit has been exhausted. I think John knows this about himself and thats the reason he tends to bet high right out of the gate these days. I mean why play someone a $500 set when you know if he gets you stuck you'll end up losing $20,000 or whatever amount you have access to. May as well force your opponent to risk what your willing to risk everytime. This may not make sense to normal people, but for guys cut from a different cloth like John it makes perfect sense. He knows he can't quit once he matches up, so he does what he can to mitigate that fault. That's one of the main differences I've noticed in John now compared to 5 years ago. In past years, he would let some nit shoot $500 at his $20,000, not now though. If you want to play this kid now days, you have to be willing to risk you entire bank roll like he does everytime. Good for you John, make these guys risk something for a change......thats when you find out what a player is made of....the ultimate test. I know great players that have never risked a penny in their life and yea they may play better than john, but if both are matched up at the same time in the same place....well, I think I'll be watching the kid who risks everthing, everytime he screw his stick together.
There's something to be said for a kid who has been down and out as many times as John has and has stormed back everytime stronger than before. He gained my respect a long time ago. He's a good guy, he's never done drugs, and he's devoted his life to the game that all of us love. I can honestly say that he's been in some of the most exciting matches that I've ever seen on a pool table and I've seen a few in my day. Give him a break Mr. Justis, he's one of the good guys.
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Tap Tap - I feel you. That's why I am quitting letting people shoot toothpicks at my bankroll. If you want to match up with me then POST the TOASTIES. Now, having said that, I am equally sure that Jack has tried to contact Jon as well. I don't agree with the sniping on the board but sometimes your frustrations gets the better of you.

John
 
Black-Balled said:
Reminds me of a guy with 'heart' that I busted once- owed me near $1k...mentioned it a couple of months later...he replied, "now you asked for it, you ain't never gonna get it"!
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Well, you ripped his "heart" out, what did you expect ;->

John
 
Jack Justis said:
I can't believe I am responding to this but this is the facts as they happened.

Last March at the SBE, Sarah Rousey came to my booth and introduced LilJon and stated he would like one of my cases. I wrote up the order which came to a total of $620 including shipping. I explained to him that I do not discount my prices but since he was well known on the gambling circuit and a friend of Sarah's I would make an exception to my policy and reduced the price of the case to $300 including shipping. He mentioned that he was short and gave me $100 deposit and said, just call me when the case is ready and I will send the $200 balance. I called Jon around the end of April and told him the case was ready to ship. He asked if I could bring the case to Vegas on May 15 since he would be playing in the 8-Ball Championships. I agreed and gave him my cell # to call when he arrived. After not hearing from him, I called and was informed he would be there the next day. Several days passed and no word. Called again and was informed he would not be making the trip to Vegas. He told me he would put a check in the mail and that I was to ship the case upon our return to Florida. Upon our return to Florida, you guessed it, no check. We then called at least 5 times and each time was given excuses about being robbed twice in one week but would send the check in a few days. The days grew into weeks until I finally gave up and put the case on ebay. Case sold on ebay for $320 plus the $100 deposit. It's not about the $200 I lost for being the nice guy, its about honesty and integrity. When someone tells you one thing and does another, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I had just about gotten rid of that taste when the article appeared. I did learn a lesson though.....get the money up front....LOL.
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Well, whoever got the case on Ebay is just setting themselves up for heartache. Imagine walking in with that case and trying to match up :-)

And Jack, you have been around this game too long to not know to make them POST the whole thing before you start working on it. When you do any case for anyone with names on them it's gambling UNTIL you get paid. You never know what might happen. I have three cases right now that are 15 years old and brand new and unuded because the customer didn't come through.

John
 
onepocketchump said:
Well, whoever got the case on Ebay is just setting themselves up for heartache. Imagine walking in with that case and trying to match up :-)

And Jack, you have been around this game too long to not know to make them POST the whole thing before you start working on it. When you do any case for anyone with names on them it's gambling UNTIL you get paid. You never know what might happen. I have three cases right now that are 15 years old and brand new and unuded because the customer didn't come through.

John
Click to expand...

Well, I guess the buyer was thinking about the name and had me cover it with a piece of python snake skin.....looked OK but I think most could figure out some name must be lurking below. I'm sure Lil'Jon is sorry about this whole deal and I have no hard feelings as well. Its over with and lets move on.
 
DoomCue said:
(snip)

NOTE: You must be a subscriber to SI in order to view the entire article.

-djb
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Here we go again :mad: ...someone else has again started trouble where before there was none.

"Must be a subscriber"???...lol...Unless someone steals it and illegally post it here.

So people here give thanks for receiving stolen property while there's moral indignation about Kevin and his past, and now this thread's pissing about a $200 apparent cue ripoff! And then there's complaining about lack of good media coverage for pool! DER! Geez...look in the mirror! We're trying to clean up the image of pool to attract good attention to the game???? Yeah, right.

To me, this theft is grounds for being removed from the AZ board as it is a direct violation of the agreement with SI and with the agreement with AZ. I won't be waiting for this to happen of course, as it seems that just being a loud mouth gets ya barred but being a crook doesn't seem to matter.

Btw, I started no trouble, to those here who will mindlessly and cowardly slam me for this ethical revelation. Before you start more trouble, think about that fact of reality. I'll go through the facts again and again if I must, but it won't be fun, that's for sure. I'm donning my hardhat.

Jeff Livingston
 
If I needed $200, I could borrow it from any number of friends with a 3 second phone call.
 
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