Live Stream- NO commentary or COMMENTARY?

What is expected out of commentator?

Not all events are played out the same. Not all producers want the same thing out of the commentary.

Commentary on the recorded main table of the US Open is far different than commentary on an action table at the Derby city classic.


All the listeners want something different; all the listeners hear the commentary differently.

Everyone can't be right.

Freddie <~~~ left
 
I like the commentary from knowledgeable players, and especially the senior guys who have a lot of stories and info on all of the players ,famous,and infamous.
When they use it to fill, during lulls in a match etc. not if the match is hot.
I almost always turned the volume off if I did watch the women play.
Mostly Allison Fischer.
 
jay helfert said:
This is something I like about Joey. He takes his job seriously and is constantly trying to find ways to do it better. Joey has probably risen faster as a commentator than anyone else in the last few years. It's always a pleasure for me to work with him. He's generous to his co-coms and knows when to chime in and when to hold up. There is an art to doing good commentary and just like playing pool I know when I'm on and when I'm just a little out of stroke. :wink:
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You are right Jay, Joey does an excellent job of bringing out the best in his co-commentator(s) !..This is rare attribute..as even the best (pool co-commentators at least) tend to get so wrapped up in proving themselves 'right', they do not do any favors to the average viewer, who may often become quite confused !..(especially in one pocket)

IMO, Danny D, is a perfect example of this shortcoming, as are the Beard and Cardone, at times !..While all, have a lot of knowledge to share, they are often very critical, of even the best players shot selection !..While it may be beneficial to hear differing viewpoints, on a given situation,..it should NOT be at the expense of the viewer, who may just be trying to learn the game..It should not digress into an ongoing 'battle of wit's' between the guy's in the booth !

The job of any good pool commentator, or pro/player in the booth, should be; (A)To point out the options, on any given shot, and (B), key in on the 'risk, reward' factors, and then STFU !..They should NOT be arguing over whose right, and whose wrong !..Colorful "war stories" can be a real plus, as long as they don't interrupt the flow of the game, and a good, up to date track of the ball, and the game score is being adhered to !..Unless both are displayed, on screen, (which they should always be, but too often are not).. This can be a very common, and aggravating component of poor commentating ! As can be paying too much attention to the 'chat', which usually becomes a distracting side show, filled with 'attention seekers' who could care less about thwe game in progress

And Joey, I must disagree with you, when you choose poor commentating, over none at all.. Especially when it comes to someone who really doesn't know the game at all, (one pocket for sure) and just likes the sound of his own voice.. That guy will get muted real fast by me !..Let me say again, I would never mute you or Jay, as I think you guy's make a great combination in the booth..And Joey, you can't always have JJ, or Frost, doing the color with you. (JK Jay) ;)

SJD

PS..One of my favorites in the booth of late, has become Bernie Pettipiece ! He is extremely knowledgable and very good at imparting his thoughts, in both layman and professional terms !..I just wish he spoke better English..(JK Bern) ;)
 
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I'd also like to add that although Incardona is one of my favorites he does have one annoying habit. That is saying the word "therefore" so I made up a new drinking game. Every time billy says the word therefore, I have to take a drink. After the last stream I watched I was bombed! Try it some time;)
 
Cornerman said:
What is expected out of commentator?

Not all events are played out the same. Not all producers want the same thing out of the commentary.

Commentary on the recorded main table of the US Open is far different than commentary on an action table at the Derby city classic.


All the listeners want something different; all the listeners hear the commentary differently.

Everyone can't be right.

Freddie <~~~ left
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FWIW I think you always do a good job in the booth, Freddie. You seem to have a relaxed and fun attitude at the mic which works really well for a one man booth at the DCC.
 
I prefer commentary when I watch a pool match (live stream or Accu-stats), but I have to admit of the Accu-stats matches i've bought over the years I have a few that the commentary is so bad I haven't watched the matches much. I have one match where one of the commentators who's now deceased actually started singing during the match! I didn't make it through the whole match one time. It was on VHS so the quality wasn't that good anyway.

James
 
It has to be commentary, otherwise what are you watching?

But it also has to be good quality commentary and informed commentary. With the rise of the internet and the stream we have seen a rise in the amount of material available to watch. That has also had an impact on the overall quality of the product on offer. Some of it is a bit, well, ropey.

This youtube video was posted a few days ago on another thread (forget which)

The commentary is absolutely first class and I believe potential commentators would learn a lot from watching it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpy5JcFOPDw
 
voiceofreason said:
It has to be commentary, otherwise what are you watching?

But it also has to be good quality commentary and informed commentary. With the rise of the internet and the stream we have seen a rise in the amount of material available to watch. That has also had an impact on the overall quality of the product on offer. Some of it is a bit, well, ropey.

This youtube video was posted a few days ago on another thread (forget which)

The commentary is absolutely first class and I believe potential commentators would learn a lot from watching it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gpy5JcFOPDw
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You are ABSOLUTELY spot on. This was a fine example of what commentary should be. Steve Mizerak committed a minor faux pas in my opinion, in game 3 when he announced that Earl was going up 3-0 when there were like 4 balls still left on the table. Another time Earl is shooting at the 9 ball and the cue is froze on the rail with the 9 needing to travel about 7 feet and Steve was counting that game for Earl before he even got down on the shot. Earl missed that one. Steve did a lot more talking than professional broadcaster Barry Tompkins, but it is understandable since Steve was one of the best at pocket billiards. As I listen to their commentary, I like the clarity of their voices but do notice that like all commentators, they don't always get the call correct. Even so, I agree with you, a great example of what commentary should be like. Thanks for the link.

On a side note, this old match is a great record of what the two players looked like and played like, a quarter of a century ago. Bow ties, white shirts, vests.....How could you not like that....

I've always thought commentators should all have a telestrator even though I have never used one. Being a graphics guy, I like drawing with electronic tools.

The other plus is that the players are wired and you can hear them talking to themselves.

The extra cameras and cameramen add another dimension to the game, showing the sitting player's reaction to poorly hit balls by their opponent.

Also have to thank JAM for putting this up on youtube.

JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
I've always thought commentators should all have a telestrator even though I have never used one. Being a graphics guy, I like drawing with electronic tools.

The other plus is that the players are wired and you can hear them talking to themselves.

JoeyA
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A telestrator would be great, but short of that let's at least have a good overhead camera. It's very common that the commentators -- and the viewers -- can't see if a player has the angle or not on at least 40% of the shots.

I would be great to mic the players, but again, this isn't ESPN-like budgets and crews. But let's put a decent stereo mic ($200) 8-feet above center table (on the same grip that's holding the overhead camera). That would give us great "sound of the table" and enough of the player's sounds to be meaningful. It seems like streamers just don't understand how important sound is to creating the feeling of "being there".

Joey, do the streamers you've worked with use an dedicated audio/visual mixer or are they trying to do the mix on a computer?
 
bdorman said:
A telestrator would be great, but short of that let's at least have a good overhead camera. It's very common that the commentators -- and the viewers -- can't see if a player has the angle or not on at least 40% of the shots.

I would be great to mic the players, but again, this isn't ESPN-like budgets and crews. But let's put a decent stereo mic ($200) 8-feet above center table (on the same grip that's holding the overhead camera). That would give us great "sound of the table" and enough of the player's sounds to be meaningful. It seems like streamers just don't understand how important sound is to creating the feeling of "being there".

Joey, do the streamers you've worked with use an dedicated audio/visual mixer or are they trying to do the mix on a computer?
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I can't speak for other streamers that Joey has worked with but on all of my productions we have a professional microphone above the table to capture the sound of "being there". I also use a dedicated sound mixer to adjust the room sound seperate from the commentary.

I do use 3 camera angles for most shows and the commentators have control of the switching. Scoreboard is on-screen for most of the match.

Joey does a fantastic job in the booth. I always enjoy his company both in and out of the booth. You won't find a better human being, period. (I know some of his opponents won't agree) :D.

Scott Rabon did an unbelievable job with commentary in the last Fight Night match with Chip Compton and Larry Nevel. His professional analysis made the match like a One Pocket class. Very good stuff. James Davis Jr also did very well.

Regarding the overhead camera, I love having an overhead view but many pool rooms simply don't have the ceiling height to pull it off. Also to get a centered view you must remove the table light and add a second set of lighting such as what Accu-Stats does. My current setup takes about 6 hrs to set up. Adding an overhead would add a couple of hours minimum. That along with the additional equipment needed to do it right is hard to justify outside of the very premium matches such as seen on Accu-Stats.

Great Thread JoeyA! Everyone that streams should read this thread carefully.

Thanks,

Ray
 
I like to hear people talk about pool...not necessarily about each shot, but just pool and stories about players.

I like to hear about where players are from and where they learned how to play. I like to hear some history about each player and what kind of tip, cue, and case they use.

I like to hear stories about pool.
 
Bob Dixon said:
Some pool commentators are good but the fact of the matter is that most of them aren't that good and some of them are terrible. When a lot of pool enthusiasts turn off the sound it's for a good reason.

This is common sense. Just talking less in general would help a lot. Watch a snooker match and copy them. Do commentators at golf and snooker matches gab about their personal life? No. They don't. I wonder why not?

Do they argue with each other about how the player is going to play the shot? No. They don't. I wonder why not?

Do they carry on conversations with someone off-camera with the mike open, usually about personal issues? No. They don't. I wonder why not?

If most commentators thought about the answers to those questions it would be a good start.
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You make some good points in this post. I have watched a few golf matches and I know those commentators are being fed information from a group of people, just like the NFL broadcasters are provided information. I don't watch any snooker matches so I can't say anything about that.

Your other points are well taken.

JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
Are you saying that some commentators don't know that they themselves, are "simply bad"? Or that many people (listeners) think that the commentators are good, but that the commentators are "simply bad" in your opinion?





JoeyA
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Correct - I am saying that some commentators don't know that they themselves are "simply bad". Maybe if they went back and listened to themselves and even took it to writing down a transcript of what they said, they would finally realize it. Every word along with every uhhhh, ummmm, yeah.
 
Good commentary, go full screen and get into the match. But bad commentary isn't much better than none at all, but that's what the chat room is for.
 
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watchez said:
Correct - I am saying that some commentators don't know that they themselves are "simply bad". Maybe if they went back and listened to themselves and even took it to writing down a transcript of what they said, they would finally realize it. Every word along with every uhhhh, ummmm, yeah.
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Lol. You apparently think you can do better than all of these " simply bad" commentators and should just volunteer your expertise. Get behind the mike and let's hear you. :thumbup:
JoeyA
 
JoeyA said:
Lol. You apparently think you can do better than all of these " simply bad" commentators and should just volunteer your expertise. Get behind the mike and let's hear you. :thumbup:
JoeyA
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I can do better than a lot of them and have. But I don't protest to be good. That was not my point. My point is that some of them are self appointed 'great' and far from it.
 
watchez said:
I can do better than a lot of them and have. But I don't protest to be good. That was not my point. My point is that some of them are self appointed 'great' and far from it.
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I know some of those commentators that you call "simply bad", just sit there for 8-12 hours a day behind the mike doing very little good: :rolleyes:
They stop the players from starting the match before the system is in place to record the match.
Set the cameras.
Choose the main cameras.
Check the audio to make sure they can hear themselves and the other commentators clearly and do an audio check with the listeners.
Learn which other cameras are operating from which angles.
Set the system for broadcast.
Set the system for recording.
Choose and start the appropriate sponsors' commercials.
Open the match.
Signal the players to begin the match.
Keep up with the match.
Periodically check the chat room to make sure that the viewers aren't experiencing any inconveniences that can be corrected, while doing a little moderating when necessary.
Update and compare the scores on the screens with the scores that the players are marking or not marking.
Dealing with questions from the pool players, pool fans and management that are regularly being asked of them despite the fact that they are there to primarily provide commentary for the match.
Bring interesting pieces of information to the viewers that isn't being fed to them by a crew, keeping the commentary as interesting as they can despite the long hours and multiple days of grinding through the same problems every day, keeping a positive attitude the whole while.
Closing out the match.
Reminding the fans about the sponsors and upcoming events.
And probably another dozen things that don't immediately come to mind.

I'm sure glad you are confident that you can do better than a lot of those commentators you call, "simply bad".

The funny thing is, I can't think of a single commentator who has said that he was "great".

JoeyA
 
If you don't want to hear criticism about some of the commentators in the pool world, then why did you start this thread and titled it as such?

You should have titled the thread

All Commentators Are Great And We Do So Much For Pool - Please Tell Us Again We Are Great Because We Like To Hear It
 
watchez said:
If you don't want to hear criticism about some of the commentators in the pool world, then why did you start this thread and titled it as such?

You should have titled the thread

All Commentators Are Great And We Do So Much For Pool - Please Tell Us Again We Are Great Because We Like To Hear It
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The thread was supposed to be about having NO COMMENTARY or HAVING COMMENTARY, not about your personal opinion about how there are so many "simply bad" commentators are out there or HOW YOU ARE SO MUCH BETTER OF A COMMENTATOR THAN THEY ARE.

Heck, you might be the best commentator out there for all I know but I haven't heard you and I would love to see you sit behind the mike for a 12 hours day for a few days in a row. :D

JoeyA
 
I did two or three matches during the Vega$ events. That is good enough for me. I believe it was SVB vs Kiamco or maybe it was Biado. The other was Klatt vs Earl. Can't remember the other one. Not sure if they were recorded. Again, I'm nothing special but I do speak my mind. The last match I did, Ken did most of the talking but that was my intention cause he had some air to clear and I just made sure I put him on the spot to do so. He is a straight talker which I respect.

To me, Ken and JCIN are the two best commentators. Billy has slipped to third. Again, just my opinion.

12 straight hours watching pool. I have better things to do.
 
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