Looking for a better way to 1-rail kick
- Thread starter Jen_Cen
- Start date
Here's a diagram of the mirror system I put together for one of my league teams. Basically, you diagram the position of the cueball and object ball of interest and mirror across the rail you are going into. Then draw a line from the cueball/object ball (depending on whether its a bank or kick) to the mirrored target and that will give the aim point on the rail, or any other landmark on the table.
Hope it helps,
Steve
Hope it helps,
Steve
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Jen_Cen said:
1. Hold the cue directly over the center of the OB...perpendicular to the cushion off which you will bank the CB....with the tip resting on the opposite rail so it can be pivoted.
2. Pivot the cue so that it intersects the EXACT mid-point between the CB and OB.
3. Now raise the cue level with your waste and sidestep at a right angle to the cue. Depending where you are standing, you might have to move backward in order to sidestep on that right angle...without bumping into the table.
At the point that the cue intersects the CB/OB midpoint, the cue will be pointing at your point of aim. Use SLIGHT running english and a medium pace.
Critical Mistakes.
1. Not correctly determining the exact midpoint.
2. Not sidestepping at a right angle to the cue.
One or both of these will screw you up.
Credit to Tony Robles for showing this to me.
He is so accurate with this method that he can hit the chosen SIDE of the OB pretty much at will even over long distances.
Regards,
Jim
nevermind...........
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Hi Jen:
You might want to check these links:
http://library.cuetable.com/showthread.php?t=323 (I use this sometimes at rolling speed)
http://library.cuetable.com/showthread.php?t=1298
You might want to check these links:
http://library.cuetable.com/showthread.php?t=323 (I use this sometimes at rolling speed)
http://library.cuetable.com/showthread.php?t=1298
Jen_Cen said:
Jen,
A very simple method is the "spot on the wall" which was taught to me very early in my 3 cushion days. Basically you find a fixed "known" spot. For example if you are kicking to a corner you know corner, side pocket, gets you the other corner....assuming correct speed and english. As such you can draw a line from the corner pocket to the side pocket and then extend that line to a point in the distance, a chair leg, the edge of a picture, etc. When you move off that exact line, the "extended point" via convergence will move with you, so aiming at that spot on the wall will still get you the corner. If you move up 1 diamond on the long rail, then extend through 1/2 diamond beyond the side pocket to find your point on the wall. If you are are 2 diamonds up the rail, then 1/2 the 6 remaining diamonds will have you sighting through the 3rd diamond. It is based on the "mirror image" concept but is easy and deadly. I'll try and use the cuetable to demonstrate an example....
I used both cueball "a" and "b" as well as object balls 2, 3 and 4 to show the "equal angle" lines for a full hit on the 1 ball. I am lousy at using the "cuetable so some of my lines are too deep on the rail, resulting in small errors in the lines but I hope you see the point. All 5 lines are easily found by imagining a point (I used the 5 balls) the same distance from the long rail (1 diamond) and dividing the distance. As you can see (sorta since my skills with the cuetable layout are weak) all 5 lines should be converging to a similar spot in the distance. Assuming your cueball is the red dot cue ball, the closest line to your line would be either cueball "b" or the 3 ball line. If you extend either of those imaginary lines to a spot in the distance, note it, and the go to the red dot cueball and aim it at that imaginary point in the distance you should get a full hit...imagine those lines one ball width closer to the intended rail when you draw them and you should pocket the ball.
I hope this makes some sense, obviously the stroke and speed for any "equal angle" system will take a little practice but I find this a very simple and effective system.
Actually, one of the links "cuetable" posted above has a link to an article by our own Bob Jewett that discusses the mirror image system and you can see in his drawings the "spot on the wall system" concept I propose, which is to say that a distant aim point is fixed and different points converge on that single spot in the distance. Bob certainly explains it better than I did. It is a PDF located here: http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/1996-10.pdf
Lots of "old timers" use this....I guess now I'm an old timer too.
Joe
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av84fun said:
If you want to see this in action there was an Accu-Stats match of Tony Robles using it (TS-08) and Danny DiLiberto was saying he had no idea what he was doing. Later in the tournament (TS-10) Tony was doing commentary with Danny and he explained this system in detail pretty much as you said. I have tried this and it definitely gave me more confidence in one-railers although I think Tony still has the nuts on me when it comes to kicking
. From my experience you will may have to come off that line a little bit depending on the condition of the rails and other environmental factors (i.e. humidity, dirt, newness of the felt, etc...).One thing I find interesting is that this works exactly the same as a 2-rail kicking system I learned. The only difference is that you draw the line from the pocket to the midpoint instead of the drop line of the OB.
I believe
should be
pj
chgo
should be
pj
chgo
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If you're pretty good at visualizing geometric shapes, try this:
The CB and OB lie on the two sides of an equilateral triangle with its apex at the kicking rail and its base at the opposite rail (the largest blue triangle in the diagram below). The CB and OB mark where the bases of two smaller equilateral triangles lie within the largest one (the two "extra" horizontal blue lines in the diagram).
You need to visualize one of these three equilateral triangles by pivoting your cue over one of the balls until its tip points at the kicking rail exactly opposite the midpoint of the triangle base.
I like to start with the ball that's farthest from the kicking rail - in this case the CB - and imagine the base of the smallest triangle defined by where the other ball sits - in this case the OB. I hold my stick over the CB and pivot it until the point at which it touches the kicking rail (point B in the diagram) is one half the "horizontal distance" from the OB as the point at which the stick crosses the smaller "base" line (point A in the diagram).
You can do this by pivoting over either ball and using any of the three triangles.
pj
chgo
The CB and OB lie on the two sides of an equilateral triangle with its apex at the kicking rail and its base at the opposite rail (the largest blue triangle in the diagram below). The CB and OB mark where the bases of two smaller equilateral triangles lie within the largest one (the two "extra" horizontal blue lines in the diagram).
You need to visualize one of these three equilateral triangles by pivoting your cue over one of the balls until its tip points at the kicking rail exactly opposite the midpoint of the triangle base.
I like to start with the ball that's farthest from the kicking rail - in this case the CB - and imagine the base of the smallest triangle defined by where the other ball sits - in this case the OB. I hold my stick over the CB and pivot it until the point at which it touches the kicking rail (point B in the diagram) is one half the "horizontal distance" from the OB as the point at which the stick crosses the smaller "base" line (point A in the diagram).
You can do this by pivoting over either ball and using any of the three triangles.
pj
chgo
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Jen
Send me an -mail to blkjackds12@yahoo.com and I will send you a copy of "Kicking Academy", which was written by forum member "DeadAim".
Send me an -mail to blkjackds12@yahoo.com and I will send you a copy of "Kicking Academy", which was written by forum member "DeadAim".
Well, I'd first like to say that systems have value. Reflective-systems, wall-references, etc. all arrive at what should be a fairly good guess on where to hit the rail. But if you REALLY want to watch rail masters, you should watch some 3-cushion.
Now, I know most will quickly point out that 3-cushion players are doing a helluva lot more than the average 9-ball kick and that's absolutely true. However, I think it's worth noting that the very best 3-cushion players never draw triangle-shapes on the table or look for points of reference. They stand behind the cueball and wait until a pattern makes sense to them and then they execute.
To the trained eye, kicking is just like gravity. It's like catching fly balls in centerfield. Your brain just picks up on what is supposed to happen. The fielding coach for the New York Yankees doesn't say, "Find the apex point of the fly-ball and calculate the distance between the bat, the apex point and from there, you will determine where the ball will drop."
The problem is kicking isn't geometric. It's physics. The equations are far more advanced than what a diagram can accurately illustrate. That's part of the reason why no matter how good you get at kicking, you'll never be perfect. Ask any 3-cushion player what the professional average is for scoring points and you'll be surprised to know it's about 2. That means, they miss a third of the time. Kicks are affected by the wear of the cloth, the bounce of the rails, the speed of the shot, etc. Yes, "etc."! Humidity can be a factor!
Please take a moment to watch some 3-cushion. What I love most about watching any of the great players is the demeanor they exhibit at the table. They have complete and unyielding trust in their gut.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRFPuj2Jsnk&feature=related
Now, I know most will quickly point out that 3-cushion players are doing a helluva lot more than the average 9-ball kick and that's absolutely true. However, I think it's worth noting that the very best 3-cushion players never draw triangle-shapes on the table or look for points of reference. They stand behind the cueball and wait until a pattern makes sense to them and then they execute.
To the trained eye, kicking is just like gravity. It's like catching fly balls in centerfield. Your brain just picks up on what is supposed to happen. The fielding coach for the New York Yankees doesn't say, "Find the apex point of the fly-ball and calculate the distance between the bat, the apex point and from there, you will determine where the ball will drop."
The problem is kicking isn't geometric. It's physics. The equations are far more advanced than what a diagram can accurately illustrate. That's part of the reason why no matter how good you get at kicking, you'll never be perfect. Ask any 3-cushion player what the professional average is for scoring points and you'll be surprised to know it's about 2. That means, they miss a third of the time. Kicks are affected by the wear of the cloth, the bounce of the rails, the speed of the shot, etc. Yes, "etc."! Humidity can be a factor!
Please take a moment to watch some 3-cushion. What I love most about watching any of the great players is the demeanor they exhibit at the table. They have complete and unyielding trust in their gut.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vRFPuj2Jsnk&feature=related
junksecret said:
Jen:
What Joe said.
Dave
Jude Rosenstock said:
Perhaps. But coaching professional outfielders on how to catch a fly ball is a little like coaching dolphins on how to swim.
More to the point, what does the little-league-tryout coach say to the kids who seem to keep wanting to run in toward the apex only to find at the last minute the ball landing behind them?
Of COURSE the goal is eventually to develop an intuitive feel. But what simple guidance in the early stages might facilitate that? That's the issue, imo.
Kicking isn't just physics; it's geometry modified by physics. Geometry is the "skeleton" and physics is the "muscles and skin", if you will. Just as artists find it useful to learn anatomy so they can draw lifelike figures, pool players can find it useful to learn the geometry of kicking so they can understand (and learn more quickly and retain better) all of the factors that make up a successful kick.
Geometry can be a useful skeleton on which to build your intuitive kicking "anatomy", and a useful "advanced starting place" for rebuilding it after some time away.
First, this is untrue - 3-cushion players use systems and points of reference more than other players. But I think it's worth noting that "play like the very best 3-cushion players" is advice that very few other players can follow.
pj
chgo
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av84fun said:
I also use this system. Maybe this diagram will help.
There is a very similar 2 rail system that works almost the same way. Find the center point between the cue ball and object ball. pivot to the pocket you want to go two rails around. perpendicularly slide your cue over from the center point to the cue ball.
I kind of made these in a rush so they are pretty sloppy.... but you should get the point.