looking for video ob on rail backwards cut ball1st

alphadog

alphadog

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
As the title says. Someone posted a good video of backward cutting a ball frozen on long rail. Proof that ball did not have to be kicked in(rail first).
Thanks in advance:D
 
If I'm thinking of the same video It was on onepocket.org. I think started by Mr 3 Cushion. After dozens of pages of debate I think the parties agreed to disagree if it was rail first or ball first.
 
I posted a SloMo video in that OnePocket.org conversation (link provided below), but all of my shots went rail-first.

I do believe that the shot can be made ball first, but with stipulations. If it is a back cut, the cue ball obviously cannot contact the OB at the point opposite of the pocket opening. However, if the OB is close enough to the pocket, and the pocket is wide enough, I believe it can be "banked" very thinly into the pocket. In shot #1 in my video, you can see that although the cue ball did hit the rail first, I actually undercut the OB by a significant margin and still made it. You can see the three ball move away from the rail on its way to the pocket, but it still falls in.

I hope this was helpful!

-Blake

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kgQyhSxIHvw
 
Thanks those are cool videos. I remember seeimg them before.
I really think Bill Smith argied abpit shot tjen spmeone else
posted "video proof". Shooter used piece of chalk to show cut
greater then 90degrees. Cue ball dod not have so much spin.
Or at least dod not retain spin after contact.
 
All the videos I ever saw show it being made railfirst, but ball first
might be possible if you cheat a little by adding chalk to the object ball,
which allows you to overcut quite a bit with outside spin. Even 90 degrees or more.

This video shows an example of that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaSKh1PSqok

I guess if a ball is on the rail and you chalked it like this and hit it the same way, you could
cut it in with outside instead of inside.
 
CreeDo said:
All the videos I ever saw show it being made railfirst, but ball first
might be possible if you cheat a little by adding chalk to the object ball,
which allows you to overcut quite a bit with outside spin. Even 90 degrees or more.

This video shows an example of that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaSKh1PSqok

I guess if a ball is on the rail and you chalked it like this and hit it the same way, you could
cut it in with outside instead of inside.
Click to expand...
Other examples of cut shots with effective angles greater than 90 degrees are demonstrated in the following video:

NV B.92 - "Impossible" cut shots, from VEPS V

The following video shows how the chalk trick can be used to make bank shots at ridiculous angles:

HSV A.142 - Vernon Elliott cross-side bank with chalk on the object ball to increase throw and spin transfer

Here's another classic example of the use of chalk to cheat a shot:

NV B.91 - Frozen-throw-down-rail proposition shot, from VEPS V

Unusual cut angles can also be created by jumping the CB into the OB. Examples can be found in the following video:

HSV B.37 - Jump shot over-cut effect and examples

In fact, this effect is the reason why some people (even good jumpers) sometimes miss (overcut) jump shots.

Enjoy,
Dave
 
CreeDo said:
All the videos I ever saw show it being made railfirst, but ball first
might be possible if you cheat a little by adding chalk to the object ball,
which allows you to overcut quite a bit with outside spin. Even 90 degrees or more.

This video shows an example of that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GaSKh1PSqok

I guess if a ball is on the rail and you chalked it like this and hit it the same way, you could
cut it in with outside instead of inside.
Click to expand...
The limit seems to be 95 degrees or so for a true cut shot with a high-friction contact.

I think the OP is referring (perhaps indirectly) to a rail-first shot. If you can make a ball-first cut shot that's on the cushion, you should be able to make the same ball-first cut shot with the object ball in the middle of the table. The cushion can't help you on a ball-first shot unless you hit the ball a second time after the cue ball hits the cushion.
 
Bob Jewett said:
The cushion can't help you on a ball-first shot unless you hit the ball a second time after the cue ball hits the cushion.
Click to expand...
But couldn't the rail increase the margin of error a bit, making the pocket effectively larger than if the ball was in the middle of the table?
 
Bob Jewett said:
The limit seems to be 95 degrees or so for a true cut shot with a high-friction contact.

I think the OP is referring (perhaps indirectly) to a rail-first shot. If you can make a ball-first cut shot that's on the cushion, you should be able to make the same ball-first cut shot with the object ball in the middle of the table. The cushion can't help you on a ball-first shot unless you hit the ball a second time after the cue ball hits the cushion.
Click to expand...

Bob thanks for reply. I am talking about ball first. I dont know if there is a double kiss involved.I do believe it was Mr. 3 Cushion who brought up arguement,and proof of , shot as , ball first cut down rail.

Knowing shot can be made with chalk added,just wont fly with my regular opponents!
 
takeitdown said:
In this vido super fast super clean rails. The cueball is trappibg and squitribg/spinning the object ball down the rail. Awesone shot,but you wont make it on old equipment.
Click to expand...
I don't think so. It looks to me like the standard rail-first-with-inside-spin shot. Why do you believe it is not that shot?

The rail-first shot is often easier on old equipment because there is a rail groove to help keep the object ball on the cushion but most of all because the rail is sticky and you get better action on the cue ball -- the side spin takes more.

Here is a video of the cushion-first shot on old cloth and with very small pockets: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Te-iCc-2NxQ
 
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