Los Angeles area players from the past

jay helfert said:
I played all these guys at one time or another, except for Louie. I played Harry Cohen $5 9-Ball at Chopstix and didn't know who he was. He kept trying to raise the bet and I refused, having only $20 in my pocket. I won about $30 and he quit. Later on I was told I had no chance in the game. I don't know. I could play a little back then. :rolleyes:

Of course I didn't play Billiards with Allen (only the national champ) or Frank Torres (also a national champion). Allen passed away but I think Frank is still in Vegas where he had the poolroom (Crystal Palace) near downtown for a long time.
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Yeah, I'm sure Harry was trying to sneak up on you. He played all the games well, but would pick his spots very carefully to where no one really knew his speed. He was like a hawk who didn't waste time chasing around, and would only attack to kill a sure thing. I got along with him okay, but everyone one knew what a rotten SOB he was. Freddy Bentivegna used to go on about how much he hated Harry "The Hook". Evidently he knew him from when a lot of the action used to go to the Congress Bowl in Miami during the winters.

Hollywood Jack was the houseman at Chopsticks for a couple of years. He knew that many of the good players were always on the lookout for a mark, so he'd tell them to leave the recreational players alone-- that they were just trying to have a good time. He knew that hustling would kill the regular traffic.

Jack was banging the owner's wife, Ruth, and everyone but the owner (Howard) seemed to know it. When Howard died, Jack stuck around to co-run the place with Ruth, but he eventually wandered off. I left town in '71 so I don't know when the place closed, but I sure loved going in there. Had to go every day! I often wondered where the regulars ended up.

~Doc
 
My friend tricky dick took Roy The Cook from the the pool hall im san diego on the road many years ago. They made lots of money and Roy had many bad habits, so if he went to the bath room tricky
with with him. Tricky said Roy would go into a real nice store ad buy very expensive shirt and pants and many days later go into another store and leave the new dirty ones in the dressing room where he just bought more new ones.
He left him in reno playing all the hands at a black jack table for a hun for each hand.
 
garczar said:
Hey Jay, does R. Martinez still play? He came in second at Gabe's 1p event in Tulsa(2010) to S. Ochoa. Last time i've seen or heard of him.
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As far as I know he is still playing. Most recently he was staying in the Northwest with occasional trips down to NorCal.
 
CrownCityCorey said:
That would be Jake’s (IPT qualifier) - closed a couple years ago. Charles in Glendale closed just about a month ago.

Chris MacDonald spent a lot of time down here 25 years ago - strong overall player, but especially banks & one-pocket. “Bomber” Dickie Renk - terrific 9-Ball player. Bobby Yamasaki deserves mentioning I think. Chico Williams had a streak of really good play in the 90’s. “Hawaiian Jimmy” Schaefer can still be seen around, but also had some heavy action runs in the late 80’s/early 90’s. Although they weren’t from here, nor took up residence, but I see them so often I’ll claim them as honorary Angelenos: Efren, Bustamante, Pagulayan, Luat, and of course Parica and Sambajon (actual residents). How about “Texas Bob” or John Borba (I think Santos retired him...).

Lots, and lots more - I can picture them all, but forget many names. Some where you never actually knew their name, just their “handle” or nickname.

Pretty wide range of players mentioned in this thread; some just shortstops and others National & International Championship level speed. I’m excited to have known and competed against many, if not most, of those mentioned. I miss the old days...

I’m no fan of the present billiard “flavor” of L.A.
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You could put your name in there as well. I saw you dethrone several of these guys. Your game really came up over the years from low level shortstop to legitimate contender! :thumbup:

Chris and I banged heads at One Pocket and Banks, usually for 20 a game, back in the 70's and 80's. I ended up staking him in some tournaments and he did okay, as high as third place in one in Kentucky. Oh and he was with me when I made my biggest poolroom score at Rusty's in Dallas. Not playing pool either. I won over 7K playing Tonk! I took Chris there to play some One Pocket and he won 800 as a bonus. That story is in my first book as well. I played Bobby a couple of times in local tourneys. I was in awe of his great physique (he was a bodybuilder). Dickie passed away last year in Vegas. He got to be pretty good at beating the books over there. I played Jimmy Banks a couple of times, won one and lost one. He still plays good.
 
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gulfportdoc said:
Yeah, I'm sure Harry was trying to sneak up on you. He played all the games well, but would pick his spots very carefully to where no one really knew his speed. He was like a hawk who didn't waste time chasing around, and would only attack to kill a sure thing. I got along with him okay, but everyone one knew what a rotten SOB he was. Freddy Bentivegna used to go on about how much he hated Harry "The Hook". Evidently he knew him from when a lot of the action used to go to the Congress Bowl in Miami during the winters.

Hollywood Jack was the houseman at Chopsticks for a couple of years. He knew that many of the good players were always on the lookout for a mark, so he'd tell them to leave the recreational players alone-- that they were just trying to have a good time. He knew that hustling would kill the regular traffic.

Jack was banging the owner's wife, Ruth, and everyone but the owner (Howard) seemed to know it. When Howard died, Jack stuck around to co-run the place with Ruth, but he eventually wandered off. I left town in '71 so I don't know when the place closed, but I sure loved going in there. Had to go every day! I often wondered where the regulars ended up.

~Doc
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Hollywood Jack was another good hustler. He was instrumental in getting Bobby LeBlanc together with Chris Corso and Mars Callahan when they made Pool Hall Junkies. Or so he said anyway. :wink:

I got staked to play Jack way back when at Snooker. I had zero chance! My backer went off on me after I lost. The whole story is in my first book. The only time in my life I let someone stake me. I ALWAYS played on my own money, all my life! Except for once or twice when I played on air. :eek:
 
How could I forget Tang Hoa! He was probably the best player in L.A. (other than Parica) for several years. He beat everyone else for the cash! Tang won many local tournaments including the Swanee twice and both ends of the Hard Times Jamboree (One Pocket and 9-Ball) against very strong fields. He did well on the Camel Pro Tour finishing eighth overall one year and tenth the next, with two top four finishes in individual events (many top tens). We made over 40K each year (I was staking him)!

He won matches over just about every top player alive in his heyday including Earl, Kim and Johnny. His best national finishes were second in the 1998 U.S. Open to Buddy Hall and second in the DCC One Pocket to Efren! He went on to excel at Poker, killing the games in L.A. and being a big winner online. By then his love for pool had waned and now he plays just for fun and enjoyment. We remain best friends until today.
 
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jay helfert said:
I know there are a lot of guys on here who spent time in Southern California at one time or another. Just thought it would be fun to see how many remember some of the great (and not so great) players who populated the L.A. Pool scene.

We all remember Ronnie Allen, Richie Florence and Keith McCready. But do you remember Billy Kenyon, a straight shooting sonofagun who was a stuntman in the movies? What about the black champions like the Iceman, California Shorty, Rush-Out Red, Black Nate and the top dog Rags Woods? Most of us knew Cecil Tugwell, a truly great player (Cliff Joyner speed) who had to switch from playing right handed to left handed and still played at a high level. Lou Butera made his home and raised his family out here as well. His son Sal turned out to be a strong player in his own right.

Who else do you remember? Anyone know the Beatle, Dale Armstrong, out of Baltimore or Lefty Bob Lanforman from Minnesota? Popcorn (John Miller) brought many top players out west to sneak them in on the unsuspecting. Tommy Baker, out of Orange County, was Keith's chief rival in their youth. Cue maker Tim Padgett could play a mean game as well.

I'm sure there's more but these are the first one's who come to mind for me.
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Popcorn I remember. I was introduced to him by one of my so called friends. Two things I remember about him. One was that he stood almost upright in his shooting stance. The other thing I remember is that he and probably one of HIS friends hustled me out of a few hundred dollars .

The guise was that I back Popcorn against this other guy that Popcorn assured me that he could beat and we could both walk out with a lot of money.

Funny how all of a sudden Popcorn couldn't hit a hole if his life depended on it and lost all my money. Never saw him again but took me years to figure that one out just being a stupid kid at the time.

One other time I remember going to an upstairs pool hall in Bellflour to watch some action the likes of Ronnie Allen and some other big names that I don't remember.

Me and my friends sat down at the counter when Minnesota Fats walked in with a couple of his body guards apparently looking for a game. I didn't know who he was until after he left (not finding what he was looking for) when my friends told me who just walked past us.

Those were the days when I was young and dumb but shot a really great game.

Anybody remember the below street level pool hall in Downtown LA?
Talk about retro even back then. The tables were old old Brunswick with skinny rails and leather basket pockets. Dirty old green felt with dull dirty old balls.

I believe it was near the old Bus station.
 
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rtrdriver said:
Popcorn I remember. I was introduced to him by one of my so called friends. Two things I remember about him. One was that he stood almost upright in his shooting stance. The other thing I remember is that he and probably one of HIS friends hustled me out of a few hundred dollars .

The guise was that I back Popcorn against this other guy that Popcorn assured me that he could beat and we could both walk out with a lot of money.

Funny how all of a sudden Popcorn couldn't hit a hole if his life depended on it and lost all my money. Never saw him again but took me years to figure that one out just being a stupid kid at the time.

One other time I remember going to an upstairs pool hall in Bellflour to watch some action the likes of Ronnie Allen and some other big names that I don't remember.

Me and my friends sat down at the counter when Minnesota Fats walked in with a couple of his body guards apparently looking for a game. I didn't know who he was until after he left (not finding what he was looking for) when my friends told me who just walked past us.

Those were the days when I was young and dumb but shot a really great game.

Anybody remember the below street level pool hall in Downtown LA?
Talk about retro even back then. The tables were old old Brunswick with skinny rails and leather basket pockets. Dirty old green felt with dull dirty old balls.

I believe it was near the old Bus station.
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That's Popcorn, killer of the unsuspecting. I beat him out of some money once and he got even by having me beat up. The poolroom in Bellflower was the Billiard Palace and all the top players in the country hung out and played in there. The downtown place we just called 4th and Main. It was there for about 80 years or more. Closed in the 1980's I believe. I kind of liked the vibe of that place. Had that old time pool hall feel to it. I got action there every time I went.
 
ibuycues said:
..........Marvin Henderson...........
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Marvin did hang out in L.A. for several years back in the 60's and early 70's. It was tough for him to get action. He was just too damn good. The only guy I ever saw beat Ronnie playing One Pocket even! Marvin liked to get high and party. I had some good times with him.

Swanee was a San Diego native. One of the best big money players of his era. They would fly him in to play somebody and he would drill the guy and disappear with his share of the winnings back to San Diego and lay on the beach with his friends smoking bud until he got the next call. Loved that guy! :sad:
 
pt109 said:
I feel Marvin Henderson was the best black all-round players of my generation.
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No question about that. He and Rags Woods had some pretty good tussles to settle that down at the old Tournament Billiards on Washington Blvd. in Culver City. They were the top dogs and no one wanted any piece of either of them. The hustlers steered clear of those two guys. Only Richie would play them and they had mad respect for him. It was kind of a standoff between those three with respect both ways.
 
jay helfert said:
No question about that. He and Rags Woods had some pretty good tussles to settle that down at the old Tournament Billiards on Washington Blvd. in Culver City. They were the top dogs and no one wanted any piece of either of them. The hustlers steered clear of those two guys. Only Richie would play them and they had mad respect for him. It was kind of a standoff between those three with respect both ways.
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Marvin played monster level.
Although he lived for many years in California, I believe he was originally
from Pittsburgh area (could be wrong).

Will Prout
 
jay helfert said:
I want to say Gil Mascareno. He was a helluva player, beat Sigel for the cash one time! He got killed in a car crash in Mexico maybe 20 years ago. Kind of like Rafael Martinez in that he would play anyone and was probably the favorite. Not much for tournaments, only wanted to gamble and bet high. That's the guy!
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He sounds like the most likely candidate.
Also makes sense why I have never run across him, in any of my research of players, if he didn't play big tournaments.
 
jay helfert said:
No question about that. He and Rags Woods had some pretty good tussles to settle that down at the old Tournament Billiards on Washington Blvd. in Culver City. They were the top dogs and no one wanted any piece of either of them. The hustlers steered clear of those two guys. Only Richie would play them and they had mad respect for him. It was kind of a standoff between those three with respect both ways.
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Jay,

When I was on the road full time Alfie Taylor steered to play Rags Woods at Tournament Billiards. I beat him easily playing 9 ball. He was methodical but not a great player IMO. Nothing like Marvin who was truly a great player.

There was another Black player that I can’t remember that took me to a Black room in Watts the day the riots broke out. Me got me out safe in the back of his car with a blanket over me.

Bill S.
 
jay helfert said:
I know there are a lot of guys on here who spent time in Southern California at one time or another. Just thought it would be fun to see how many remember some of the great (and not so great) players who populated the L.A. Pool scene.

We all remember Ronnie Allen, Richie Florence and Keith McCready. But do you remember Billy Kenyon, a straight shooting sonofagun who was a stuntman in the movies?
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I knew Billy Kenyon from days in the 1960's when I worked at Lockheed and played regularly for years at Harold "Red" Baker's place on Magnolia in North Hollywood. (Mosconi was a close longtime friend of Red's and would unfailingly stop by along with "Cowboy" Jimmy Moore occasionally whenever they were in the region.)

Plenty of movie crew people from the few-miles-away Universal lot in Studio City, and celeb actors like Vic Morrow (a big 14.1 fan from his NYC roots, like mine) would come in at odd or quiet hours at Red's place. Vic was doing his hit series "Combat" at Uni for several seasons. I played with Vic a few times when he was looking for 14.1 practice partners and playing tips (never any money games involved, but he always insisted on paying the time and I enjoyed his ultra-serious demeanor and interest in improving).

I never knew that about Billy -- that he was a movie stunt man (likely also worked at Universal now that you mention him in that occupation). He had entered one of Fred Whalen's many great 14.1 annual events held at the downtown LA Elks club and invited himself to my table a couple times as one of his many warm up sessions for Fred's imminent event. Billy did remind me of Danny D and did look very strong and wiry for his size -- one remarkable 5-second proof of that impression clicks now with what you said about his rough & tumble stuntman capability:

-- One night some fool apparently passed a nasty comment about Billy while Billy was raining rack after rack during a money game in the back room. We all heard a few minutes of shouting, then saw Billy and the guy (about 8 inches taller and a hundred pounds bigger) headed out to the parking lot. Half of the place ran to the door (some apparently knew more about Billy and what result was coming than I did) because what we saw was the fool raising a fist back, followed by a blitz of three lightning-fast punches by Billy. The guy was unconscious before he hit the ground.

Billy and our mutual friend (yours and mine) Elliot Robbins, both made a few dollars betting on, or playing in, the after-hours practice room gambling sessions during the multi-week Whalen events at the Elks club. As you'll already know, Richie Florence and Mizerak's brother-in-law, Peter Margo were always in high-stakes action there along with Ed Kelly, as well as playing in tuxes in the featured tournament itself.

Arnaldo
 
Jay,

When I was hustling pool full time on my first trip to LA I went to the Billiard Den.

When I walked in for the first time Marvin was practicing on the table around the corner from the bar.

I was on the Lemon so I asked Marvin for 8 to 6 playing one pocket.

He gave it to me for 100 a game and I was stalling when his backer Stanley came in and started to sweat the game.

I had Marvin 2 games loser without showing much speed.

Marvin had his game ball hanging in his pocket and I needed 2. There was a ball on the end rail between the pockets.

I was trying to jump Marvin’s ball out of his pocket and the cue ball off the table.

Guess what? His ball jumped up in the air and landed in my pocket leaving me straight in on my game ball.

Stanley jumped out of his seat and walked to the table and asked Marvin what the hell he was doing? Marvin explained he was giving me 8 to 6 and Stanley yelled “ I think I would stop doing that if I were you”.

Broke me up and I couldn’t stop laughing.

Marvin had the best stroke of any player I have ever seen.

Bill S.
 
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