Low Cost Cues under $100

[snipershot]

i saw them on ebay and sent them a message asking where they were made, and they said USA. I suppose they could be lying......dunno?

 

[poolplayer2093]

Where was the computer built that you are typing on. They said the same thing about the Japenese too, that they would buy up America and we'd all have to learn to speak Japanese. What happened? Their economy heated up with the increase in exports, their people became more affluent and demanded more wages, their real estate market shot up, and then the bubble burst and corporate America still belongs to corporate Americans and Japanese isn't mandatory in schools.

If you only knew how the world really works. For example I bet you'd be surprised to know who sells wood to Chinese cue makers. America was never and never will be a land that doesn't trade with the rest of the world. America is comprised of people from places foreign to it's shores. The only "Americans" who have a right to complain are the ones who walked there and lived there and cultivated the land long before they were conquered by war, disease, and trickery brought by outsiders.

I understand your "buy American" position but as long as you are an advocate for "workfare" in that you prefer to subsidize jobs that aren't economically feasible for business to maintain in the USA then why don't you at the same time also mandate that every person working should receive a fair living wage and be guaranteed health care?

It seems to me that the more people who purchase their own $100 or less cue means that there will be more people playing. And more people playing means more money overall will spent on billiards in the USA. If the USA producers cannot produce attractive and decent cues for a price that allows them to profit at $100 then there is no reason why import brands can't fill that void.

In my 20+ years I have seen lots of people buy the cheaper cues and then a year or so later they are ready to invest in a "better" or more prestigious one.

The economy is not black and white. The reason the economy is in the toilet right now has just about ZERO to do with imports and has everything to do with greed, ignorance, and rampant consumerism. People who can't afford a house and land should not get loans for houses and land. Period. Your fellow Americans built a house of cards by preying on their fellow Americans and the big banks sold this rotten fruit to other banks around the world. Then when it all collapsed as every house of cards does all you are left with is a bunch of litter. You can buy American all you want to but you will not be able to save people from themselves.

Get a house with zero down, no credit check, here, have another credit card so you can fill that house with big screen tv's. Move farther away from where you work so that you need a car just to go to the grocery store, build more and more strip malls to cater to people living in neighborhoods built from 2x4's that any half-decent tornado can take down in minutes. That's your America where the economy is in the toilet.

This has nothing to do with China as much as it has to do with our own erosion in values and continuing ignorance of what has value.

"Buy American" is nothing more than a band-aid on a gaping wound. A much better way to do your part would be to say "don't be frivolous and buy VALUE".

If that value comes to you in the form a decent quality $100 imported cue then buy it and do something smart with the savings. If it comes to you in saving a little bit and buying a $150 McDermott or Viking or other well known brand then that's equally great.

you're right! why should we buy american?

maybe everyone that's still in america should just forget about their local businesses and only buy products that aren't built in america!

look man. it may not be much but buying american made products is a small step toward keeping some jobs in america. even if it's not, it's a statement that some americans still feel like supporting their countrymen.

i think with times being as tough as they are now it might do this country some good to stick together as much as we can

 

[poolplayer2093]

wow, i could not disagree more. the only reason it is cheaper for China to make these "VALUE" items is because they are communist bastards that will not allow their people to learn how bad they get screwed. Im sure some people think that chinese people love going to work 12 hours a day 7 days a week for $30 a week. Oh and the working conditions are so safe and eco friendly. you make it sound like its my fault that I am not willing to risk my life to built an elmo doll, or whatever piece of fad material is in fashion. Im sure the chinese people are good workers, but thats not to say they are any better than me. I for one believe in the USA, and I will not throw in the towel and say "oh well, guess I'll buy the cheap one". When I was in the U.S. Marines, we had a saying that applies to every group of people, "Its always that 10 percent." that 10 percent that screws everything up and makes everyone else look bad. I agree with you on the whole banks giving bad loans, and people screwing themselves, however, there were hundreds of thousands of people that were doing fine, working everyday, making their house payments, and boom, pinkslip. There is nothing they can do, I know if I lose my income, there is a snowball's chance in hell of me even coming close to replacing it. I would be lucky to find a job that pays half of what I make now. anyway, my point is, maybe you are right about the banks, but as far as moving jobs overseas, that is never a good thing. Its almost impossible for us middle class manufacturing workers to compete with the un-educated, abused, under-paid, overworked, workers in China. with that said, they may be able to do it cheaper and faster, but they will never do it better. Sure in the early days Japan was the same way, but the difference here is that Japan was not a stonewall Communist nation. We are sleeping with the enemy. I am all for trade, but with the import/export ratio so one sided, thats hardly "trade", that is a flat ou assult on the working American people. Im going to shut up now, sorry for the rant.

Semper Fi Marine, and well said!

 

[chin0]

you're right! why should we buy american?

maybe everyone that's still in america should just forget about their local businesses and only buy products that aren't built in america!

look man. it may not be much but buying american made products is a small step toward keeping some jobs in america. even if it's not, it's a statement that some americans still feel like supporting their countrymen.

i think with times being as tough as they are now it might do this country some good to stick together as much as we can

As much as I agree, I have to add one thing, the entire world's economy is pretty crappy right now, not just America. It sucks so bad, but we will always fight with a cue in our hand.

 

[poolplayer2093]

As much as I agree, I have to add one thing, the entire world's economy is pretty crappy right now, not just America. It sucks so bad, but we will always fight with a cue in our hand.

yeah the whole world isn't doing well. america seems to be the only country with citizens that have a problem with taking care of their own problems first. i guarantee the chinese don't have a problem with buying chinese made products before buying american (place country here...) made products

 

[JB Cases]

yeah the whole world isn't doing well. america seems to be the only country with citizens that have a problem with taking care of their own problems first. i guarantee the chinese don't have a problem with buying chinese made products before buying american (place country here...) made products

You guarantee it?

I will just shut up since all of you know more about China than people who actually live and work here.

Maybe someday when you get a chance to actually visit with an open mind you might find that China and Chinese people aren't as you describe.

Of course ignorance isn't only one sided. A friend who owns a factory here asked me if it's true that every American gets $8000 a month from the government.

I told him no but we get free credit card offers every week for more than $8000 credit lines and we only have to pay 29.99% interest for the privilege of having them.

I say build a wall and kick everyone out of the USA who won't swear blood oath to only buy things made in America. And make it punishable by death to use any foreign parts, labor, or patents to produce goods in the USA. Abolish corporations and stock exchanges and make it illegal to purchase anything made outside a 100 mile radius of your residence. Outfit everyone with non-removable gps locators and abolish money so that everything one purchases is done by electronic card. That ought to fix it all.

 

[JB Cases]

wow, i could not disagree more. the only reason it is cheaper for China to make these "VALUE" items is because they are communist bastards that will not allow their people to learn how bad they get screwed. Im sure some people think that chinese people love going to work 12 hours a day 7 days a week for $30 a week. Oh and the working conditions are so safe and eco friendly. you make it sound like its my fault that I am not willing to risk my life to built an elmo doll, or whatever piece of fad material is in fashion. Im sure the chinese people are good workers, but thats not to say they are any better than me. I for one believe in the USA, and I will not throw in the towel and say "oh well, guess I'll buy the cheap one". When I was in the U.S. Marines, we had a saying that applies to every group of people, "Its always that 10 percent." that 10 percent that screws everything up and makes everyone else look bad. I agree with you on the whole banks giving bad loans, and people screwing themselves, however, there were hundreds of thousands of people that were doing fine, working everyday, making their house payments, and boom, pinkslip. There is nothing they can do, I know if I lose my income, there is a snowball's chance in hell of me even coming close to replacing it. I would be lucky to find a job that pays half of what I make now. anyway, my point is, maybe you are right about the banks, but as far as moving jobs overseas, that is never a good thing. Its almost impossible for us middle class manufacturing workers to compete with the un-educated, abused, under-paid, overworked, workers in China. with that said, they may be able to do it cheaper and faster, but they will never do it better. Sure in the early days Japan was the same way, but the difference here is that Japan was not a stonewall Communist nation. We are sleeping with the enemy. I am all for trade, but with the import/export ratio so one sided, thats hardly "trade", that is a flat ou assult on the working American people. Im going to shut up now, sorry for the rant.

I believe in the USA too but it's not in the USA that says the best way to protect it is to build a wall and make it an island.

You seem to conveniently forget, or maybe you just never knew, that the manufacturing workers in the United States of America were once the lowest class, not the middle class. At one time they had to work 12 hour days for low wages and face abusive working conditions.

What changed?

As America's workers became more skilled and educated they began to organize and demand better conditions and better pay.

I find it a sad state that you want to highlight the worst conditions to make your point and in the same breath you want to make sure that those conditions endure by taking away any chance for the people in China to achieve what the American worker has achieved.

Why is it that you and other's think that business OWES you a job? You say moving jobs overseas is never a good thing. Maybe not for the person who loses that job but it's good for the millions of other hardworking Americans who invested into that company and sees more income flowing to the them in the form of higher dividends. It's good for the millions of Americans whose retirement account goes up in value because the companies in that portfolio are making more profits.

Why does this always end up being a lesson on the economy? When a job ends in one sector then it creates space in another. It's called displacement. Who mourned for the buggy makers and horse dealers when automobiles came along? Do you rag on the factory in the USA that moves it's operations from California to Alabama because it's cheaper there or because Alabama promises tax breaks and free training for the workers (tax payer funded subsidies). Do you rag on the factory that installs machines to do what humans previously did?

Why do you think business owes you a job?

Business is started with the GOAL of making money. Not as a social endeavor, not as charity, not as a babysitter. In order to make money business has tasks that need to be done and it pays the lowest possible price for those tasks.

If your company paid one supplier twice the going rate for something that wasn't any better then you'd scream that they are fools and know nothing about business. Yet when it comes to labor you expect business to pay five or ten times what it could get the labor for elsewhere.

Why do you think business owes you a job?

Business owes you nothing. Business will pay you whatever you can negotiate for yourself and whatever your collective union (communist idea) can negotiate. Business will employ you and pay you for your labor as long as it is profitable to do so and as long as you provide service that brings the business value. Your labor is a commodity, nothing more nothing less.

Do you complain if someone walks into your business and tells management that they will do your job for half of your pay? Do you think management should not consider that offer? If you were in management's position what would you do if a qualified and experienced person offered to work for half of the current salary of your existing employee?

Maybe that person has no debt and lives in a tiny shack and lives on just bread and water and is completely content with that. Should management consider your mortgage, two kids, two cars, five tvs, cable and internet fees, and your golf club membership and decide that the business has an obligation to fund all that?

It's not as cut and dried as just "Buy American".


And P.S. I'd like to wrap myself in the Flag too by mentioning that I was in the Air Force. I know we weren't as tough as you Marines but still I took the same oath you did.

 

[poolplayer2093]

You guarantee it?

I will just shut up since all of you know more about China than people who actually live and work here.

Maybe someday when you get a chance to actually visit with an open find you find that China and Chinese people aren't as you describe.

Of course ignorance isn't only one sided. A friend who owns a factory here asked me if it's true that every American gets $8000 a month from the government.

I told him no but we get free credit card offers every week for more than $8000 credit lines and we only have to pay 29.99% interest for the privilege of having them.

I say build a wall and kick everyone out of the USA who won't swear blood oath to only buy things made in America. And make it punishable by death to use any foreign parts, labor, or patents to produce goods in the USA. Abolish corporations and stock exchanges and make it illegal to purchase anything made outside a 100 mile radius of your residence. Outfit everyone with non-removable gps locators and abolish money so that everything one purchases is done by electronic card. That ought to fix it all.

it's a figure of speech. don't take everything so literally

you make it sound like americans that want to support america (how ever they can) are committing some sort of sin.

i walk around the mall and hear all sorts of kids talking bad about their own country. it makes me sick! you'll have to forgive me but i don't have a problem with buying american products.

a couple of my friends got laid off and their jobs got moved to China. more and more americans out of work every and we don't stand a chance in the competition for the jobs. why pay an american 40-50k a year to do a job when someone in china will do it for 15-20k (#'s are just an example and not to be taken literally)

 

[JB Cases]

Also Snipershot I think your idea of what the "communist bastards" allow is out of touch by about 20 years.

Every Chinese person today has access to cell phones, computers, outside news, and the internet.

It costs about .75cts and hour to go to an internet cafe and surf to your heart's content. China has plenty of blogs and forums that are critical of the government and which expose unfair and unsafe working conditions.

Those communist bastards are losing to the capitalists and while China may not make to transitioning to a full democracy in the next 50 years they certainly don't resemble a communist country right now and never will again.

You are a Marine. Tell me you would not rather face 1.2 billion Chinese who are just thinking about sending their kids to college and the next big screen TV instead of 1.2 billion who are hungry and busy making weapons.

 

[poolplayer2093]

I believe in the USA too but it's not in the USA that says the best way to protect it is to build a wall and make it an island.

You seem to conveniently forget, or maybe you just never knew, that the manufacturing workers in the United States of America were once the lowest class, not the middle class. At one time they had to work 12 hour days for low wages and face abusive working conditions.

What changed?

As America's workers became more skilled and educated they began to organize and demand better conditions and better pay.

it's a good thing you still have uneducated unskilled chinese workers to higher instead of paying a decent days pay to americans. I bet that helps your profit margin a little, no?



And P.S. I'd like to wrap myself in the Flag too by mentioning that I was in the Air Force. I know we weren't as tough as you Marines but still I took the same oath you did.

the difference isn't being tough or about an oath. the difference is that Marines keep their country high on their list of loyalties

 

[chin0]

As a chinese born in Hong Kong, I feel that many people have a misconception that China is still a lowly uncivilized place. I really wish people would understand that China is now one of the most industrialized country in the world. Look up Shan Hai or Hong Kong in yahoo and click images, and you will see, the sweater making chink is not getting paid $.02 an hour to make those unqualified cues, getting paid $.02 an hour is not enough to support their habits of buying Prada shoes and buying every piece of new gadget that comes out. Yes, as stereotypical as it sounds with asians and gadgets, it's true, anything new that comes out, we gotta have it. I know too many chinese people who switch cellphones every other week, because new models are coming out. I don't think cheap labor would be paying for that. Maybe they are just secretly putting Made in U.S.A. on their products so it sells better in the U.S.

Yes, jobs are getting thrown overseas left and right, but for crying out loud, Union guys at GM are getting paid like $30 an hour? Geez, Gm is still making crappy cars that doesn't last as long as a honda. I think it is unreasonable for the workers to get paid that much and still create a POS in the end process and now you see why they are going down the drain. You have over paid workers who pump out crappy products, and due to crappy products, sales decrease, but you have to pay the same amount of labor which is nowhere close to being cost efficient, and they are having to buy US made parts, due to many people not willing to accept china parts, they also pay more for parts. In the end, you have an expensive car that is crappy and breaks down a lot, and a high operating expense and not enough revenue to cover your a$$, not to mention the Pensions they have for the over paid employees, of course they are going down the drain and giving jobs to overseas workers. You buy a Honda Accord, you will be driving that thing to the grave. You buy a GM (I have an Olds) you will be in the grave because of it. Not literal, or being bias, I like certain big three cars, I'm a freaken muscle car guy, but quality control and cost efficiency is well managed in other countries compared to the big three in america.

Don't just blame the chinese, blame the indians as well. Call Sprint's or ATT's 24hr service line and see who is answering your call?

Some people don't think to reflect on themselves on why their jobs are being outsourced to overseas countries, but just focus on themselves being the innocent and the corporation being the big devil with red horns, but reality is, you plundged it up your own a$$ when you took advantage of your payday when you bent them over and lubed them up.

All in all, I think with us talking this patriotism crap is nonsense when it comes to the economy. Not only do you have to stick with your own, you also have to work with everyone else to dig ourselves out of this hole. There is no independent country that needs no other country. It is a network and every country is dependent on another country for certain materials and etc. So why not just work hand in hand so we can flourish in the end. Yes loyalty is important, and loyalty to our country and our family and friends are all we have in the end, but one thing people also fail to realize is, loyalty is correct, but blindly and unrationally following this loyalty is ignorance. We Chinese are loyal to our country and would die to defend it, but we don't blindly follow this loyalty, we reason with it, that is why the communist government no long has the power to make us do what they want us to do.

Than again, what do I know? I'm another product produced by the chinese, I'm not qualified right? lol

Happy shooting!

Chino

 

[poolplayer2093]

As a chinese born in Hong Kong, I feel that many people have a misconception that China is still a lowly uncivilized place. I really wish people would understand that China is now one of the most industrialized country in the world. Look up Shan Hai or Hong Kong in yahoo and click images, and you will see, the sweater making chink is not getting paid $.02 an hour to make those unqualified cues, getting paid $.02 an hour is not enough to support their habits of buying Prada shoes and buying every piece of new gadget that comes out. Yes, as stereotypical as it sounds with asians and gadgets, it's true, anything new that comes out, we gotta have it. I know too many chinese people who switch cellphones every other week, because new models are coming out. I don't think cheap labor would be paying for that. Maybe they are just secretly putting Made in U.S.A. on their products so it sells better in the U.S.

Yes, jobs are getting thrown overseas left and right, but for crying out loud, Union guys at GM are getting paid like $30 an hour? Geez, Gm is still making crappy cars that doesn't last as long as a honda. That is fair and I think too fair to the workers and now you see why they are going down the drain. You have over paid workers who pump out crappy products, and due to crappy products, sales decrease, but you have to pay the same amount of labor which is nowhere close to being cost efficient, and they are having to buy US made parts, due to many people not willing to accept china parts, they also pay more for parts. In the end, you have an expense car that is crappy and breaks down a lot, and a high operating expense and not enough revenue to cover your a$$, not to mention the Pensions they have for the overaid employees, of course they are going down the drain and giving jobs to overseas workers. You buy a Honda Accord, you will be driving that thing to the grave.

Don't just blame the chinese, blame the indians as well. Call Sprint's or ATT's 24hr service line and see who is answering your call?

Some people don't think to reflect on themselves on why their jobs are being outsourced to overseas countries, but just focus on themselves being the innocent and the corporation being the big devil with red horns, but reality is, you plundged it up your own a$$ when you took advantage of your payday when you bent them over and lubed them up.

All in all, I think with us talking this patriotism crap is nonsense when it comes to the economy. Not only do you have to stick with your own, you also have to work with everyone else to dig ourselves out of this hole. There is no independent country that needs no other country. It is a network and every country is dependent on another country for certain materials and etc. So why not just work hand in hand so we can flurish in the end.

Happy shooting!

Chino

as a Chinese born citizen i hope you realize that we're not meaning to make this about race.

When i was in japan i did notice that electronics do actually cost less there than they do in the states.

We're also not saying that america is perfect but it's ours and i'd much rather us take care of it and it's problems first. i see friends falling behind on house payments and bills because someone over seas'll do the job they're doing for much less than he can. my buddy can't even offer to do the job for the same price because everything here just costs more

 

[JB Cases]

it's a figure of speech. don't take everything so literally

you make it sound like americans that want to support america (how ever they can) are committing some sort of sin.

i walk around the mall and hear all sorts of kids talking bad about their own country. it makes me sick! you'll have to forgive me but i don't have a problem with buying american products.

a couple of my friends got laid off and their jobs got moved to China. more and more americans out of work every and we don't stand a chance in the competition for the jobs. why pay an american 40-50k a year to do a job when someone in china will do it for 15-20k (#'s are just an example and not to be taken literally)

I don't have a problem buying American products either. But I don't base my decision on whether a product is made in America or not. I base it on whether the product is well made and can be serviced/supported and if I can afford it.

Have you ever considered that the reason they talk bad about America is that their "education" comes from sound bites on TV? Is it so hard to understand that it's not business that is to blame here? They just serve up what you ask for. You want entertainment and fluff instead of real education? No problem, here is a satellite dish with 150 channels. PBS? who needs PBS - the taxpayers don't need to fund an educational channel? Cut it and don't require the television suppliers to carry it among their 150 channel line up. Or is it 500 channels now?

Why do you think that your friend's employers had an obligation to pay your friends a lot more money for the same work? Don't you think that maybe the owners of the business or the stockholders have a right to make money too? After all it was through their investment that your friends even had a job in the first place.

No, YOU make sound like those who don't buy into your wrap-me-in-the flag-buy American schtick are the ones who are unpatriotic and committing crimes against nature. Nothing is more hypocritical than you telling me I am destroying the United States by making things in China while you type it on a computer made in China - where you PROBABLY bought the cheapest one you could find instead of an more expensive American brand where the extra profit would help to fund more American jobs hopefully.

Your two friends who got laid off because, as you say, their jobs moved to China, are simply commodities that became to expensive for the business climate. They need to take their skills somewhere else or go into another line of work. People do it all the time. The whiners stay broke and live off of unemployment and welfare and the winners get busy and take care of themselves. THAT is what America is about, not expecting business or the government to take care of you. And all this false evangelizing about Buy American is just another way to cover for people who who don't want to take care of themselves.

Ben Franklin says, "get what you can and hold what you get, for no morning sun lasts a whole day".

This may sound harsh but whoever is making a good wage now and is living beyond their means carrying a high mortgage for a house that is bigger than they need, filled with stuff they don't need, and has tons of credit card debt deserves it when their high paying job evaporates and they are left broke. Every one of us has the choice to be sensible about our lives and if we don't then we bear the consequences. If we do then we bear the rewards.

 

[chin0]

as a Chinese born citizen i hope you realize that we're not meaning to make this about race.

When i was in japan i did notice that electronics do actually cost less there than they do in the states.

We're also not saying that america is perfect but it's ours and i'd much rather us take care of it and it's problems first. i see friends falling behind on house payments and bills because someone over seas'll do the job they're doing for much less than he can. my buddy can't even offer to do the job for the same price because everything here just costs more

I understand it is not about race, I never saw it that way. I feel your pain on seeing your family and friends suffering from the economy. I just only see it as, if you want the jobs here in America, people will have to sacrafice the rate of payment, because if they demand the same high paying jobs, these products that we buy that are made in U.S.A. would cost more, eventually leading to a higher cost of living than what it is now. If cost of living is high now with cheap made in china products floating everywhere, how would it be if everything floating around has a made in U.S.A. tag on it, but also has a 10% premium on it because the person who complained about having to pay the extra 10% but demands american made products, is the same person who also demanded a raise in salary causing the 10% premium on the product? Right now, all I know is, we need to just stick it out until the light shines on our darken economy. I hope everything will be better for all of us, not just economy wise, also health and billiard wise. I also hope that your friends and family would see the better end of it soon, as I know it is tough to go through a rough patch, we just have to grit our teeth and be strong. I saw on CNN the other day that a Real Estate Broker who made well over 200K is now a shoe shiner at the mall. I mean it is a difficult transition, from wearing a suit to serving the suit, but he found a way to keep food on the table for his family, he grit his teeth and made a strong effort to make it happen, we can do this together!

Chino

 

[poolplayer2093]

I don't have a problem buying American products either. But I don't base my decision on whether a product is made in America or not. I base it on whether the product is well made and can be serviced/supported and if I can afford it.

Have you ever considered that the reason they talk bad about America is that their "education" comes from sound bites on TV? Is it so hard to understand that it's not business that is to blame here? They just serve up what you ask for. You want entertainment and fluff instead of real education? No problem, here is a satellite dish with 150 channels. PBS? who needs PBS - the taxpayers don't need to fund an educational channel? Cut it and don't require the television suppliers to carry it among their 150 channel line up. Or is it 500 channels now?

Why do you think that your friend's employers had an obligation to pay your friends a lot more money for the same work? Don't you think that maybe the owners of the business or the stockholders have a right to make money too? After all it was through their investment that your friends even had a job in the first place.


i didn't say anyone was obligated to pay anyone else. i understand that it's all business and that these things happen. the fact is they were already making money. they cut his job to make a little more coin. the rich keep getting richer by screwing little guys over.

you see the dollars and cents and i see the people these decisions hurt. jobs are hard to find these days and he was only making 12 bones an hour. that cash combined with his moms income is how they got by (he was helping rase his little brother). but that doesn't matter because the ceo got himself a little bonus!
his job got cut and not he can't afford to keep going to school.


No, YOU make sound like those who don't buy into your wrap-me-in-the flag-buy American schtick are the ones who are unpatriotic and committing crimes against nature. Nothing is more hypocritical than you telling me I am destroying the United States by making things in China while you type it on a computer made in China - where you PROBABLY bought the cheapest one you could find instead of an more expensive American brand where the extra profit would help to fund more American jobs hopefully.

Like i said bro you're right. i'll never buy american again!

i never said you were destroying the united states. you're just making it harder for americans to make a living. but like you said above you don't owe anyone anything. You above all else!


Your two friends who got laid off because, as you say, their jobs moved to China, are simply commodities that became to expensive for the business climate. They need to take their skills somewhere else or go into another line of work. People do it all the time. The whiners stay broke and live off of unemployment and welfare and the winners get busy and take care of themselves. THAT is what America is about, not expecting business or the government to take care of you. And all this false evangelizing about Buy American is just another way to cover for people who who don't want to take care of themselves.

Ben Franklin says, "get what you can and hold what you get, for no morning sun lasts a whole day".

This may sound harsh but whoever is making a good wage now and is living beyond their means carrying a high mortgage for a house that is bigger than they need, filled with stuff they don't need, and has tons of credit card debt deserves it when their high paying job evaporates and they are left broke. Every one of us has the choice to be sensible about our lives and if we don't then we bear the consequences. If we do then we bear the rewards.

i said it before i'm not cool enough to do the different quote thing so i just bolded my comments

 

[JB Cases]

[/B]

the difference isn't being tough or about an oath. the difference is that Marines keep their country high on their list of loyalties

Please try to learn to quote correctly so that things don't get taken out of context.

And you know damn well that you can't speak for all Marines. There are plenty of former Marines who disagree openly about the policies and practices of the US Government and the military. There are plenty of former Marines who take my view and still consider themselves loyal to the USA.

I am loyal to the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Remember those?

Nothing in those two documents guarantees you a job.

They guarantee you the right to pursue the employment or undertake any business that makes you happy without regard to your race or religion or sex. That's it. Nowhere does it say that once you take a job it's yours for life no matter what the climate. Nor does it say that once you take a job you are committed to it for life either.

You want to make this about "evil" employers who "move jobs" overseas. Ok what about when an employer invests in your training, gives you access to the customer database, and you leave after a year to work for a competitor getting a higher salary because you are now experienced and you also take your customer list (your employer's customer list) with you? Isn't that evil as well? Should you NOT have the freedom to change jobs if you want to restrict your employer's right to eliminate or move yours?

Yes, all I employ are uneducated workers that I can pay low wages to. Absolutely. I just love to deal with untrained, ignorant people, who can't think for themselves. I love to stand over them all day watching every move to make sure that they don't mess anything up.

Get real.

Do you think all the people who work in US factories are "educated"? They go to work in factories because the places that require college degrees won't hire them. You seem to have this idea that factory work in the USA is glamorous and beautiful.

But aside from that what do you care what my profit margins are? Are you a communist or something?

Do you ask the American producers of goods if they are paying fair wages? Do you check their profits to determine if it's too much or not? When you go to McDonalds and you are served by a 60 year old do you ask if they are making more than $5.50 an hour? Would you pay $5 for that Big Mac to support them getting $10 an hour so they wouldn't be barely making the rent? How about that single mom with two kids and no high school diploma working beside her? Shouldn't she be worth $15 an hour?

I love it when people like you try to play the "profit" card. It just shows how little you really think about the world you live in and who lives in it with you.

Much better to play the "buy American" card - that one is always good for brownie points from those who think the same but also don't take the time to educate themselves on the deeper issues.

 

[poolplayer2093]

I understand it is not about race, I never saw it that way. I feel your pain on seeing your family and friends suffering from the economy. I just only see it as, if you want the jobs here in America, people will have to sacrafice the rate of payment, because if they demand the same high paying jobs, these products that we buy that are made in U.S.A. would cost more, eventually leading to a higher cost of living than what it is now. If cost of living is high now with cheap made in china products floating everywhere, how would it be if everything floating around has a made in U.S.A. tag on it, but also has a 10% premium on it because the person who complained about having to pay the extra 10% but demands american made products, is the same person who also demanded a raise in salary causing the 10% premium on the product? Right now, all I know is, we need to just stick it out until the light shines on our darken economy. I hope everything will be better for all of us, not just economy wise, also health and billiard wise. I also hope that your friends and family would see the better end of it soon, as I know it is tough to go through a rough patch, we just have to grit our teeth and be strong. I saw on CNN the other day that a Real Estate Broker who made well over 200K is now a shoe shiner at the mall. I mean it is a difficult transition, from wearing a suit to serving the suit, but he found a way to keep food on the table for his family, he grit his teeth and made a strong effort to make it happen, we can do this together!

Chino

it's sad to say it but it's looking like pretty soon people will have to find a different country to go do to chase the american dream because it might not be in america much longer

 

[poolplayer2093]

Please try to learn to quote correctly so that things don't get taken out of context.

And you know damn well that you can't speak for all Marines. There are plenty of former Marines who disagree openly about the policies and practices of the US Government and the military. There are plenty of former Marines who take my view and still consider themselves loyal to the USA.

I am loyal to the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. Remember those?

Nothing in those two documents guarantees you a job.

They guarantee you the right to pursue the employment or undertake any business that makes you happy without regard to your race or religion or sex. That's it. Nowhere does it say that once you take a job it's yours for life no matter what the climate. Nor does it say that once you take a job you are committed to it for life either.

You want to make this about "evil" employers who "move jobs" overseas. Ok what about when an employer invests in your training, gives you access to the customer database, and you leave after a year to work for a competitor getting a higher salary because you are now experienced and you also take your customer list (your employer's customer list) with you? Isn't that evil as well? Should you NOT have the freedom to change jobs if you want to restrict your employer's right to eliminate or move yours?

Yes, all I employ are uneducated workers that I can pay low wages to. Absolutely. I just love to deal with untrained, ignorant people, who can't think for themselves. I love to stand over them all day watching every move to make sure that they don't mess anything up.

Get real.

Do you think all the people who work in US factories are "educated"? They go to work in factories because the places that require college degrees won't hire them. You seem to have this idea that factory work in the USA is glamorous and beautiful.

But aside from that what do you care what my profit margins are? Are you a communist or something?

Do you ask the American producers of goods if they are paying fair wages? Do you check their profits to determine if it's too much or not? When you go to McDonalds and you are served by a 60 year old do you ask if they are making more than $5.50 an hour? Would you pay $5 for that Big Mac to support them getting $10 an hour so they wouldn't be barely making the rent? How about that single mom with two kids and no high school diploma working beside her? Shouldn't she be worth $15 an hour?

I love it when people like you try to play the "profit" card. It just shows how little you really think about the world you live in and who lives in it with you.

Much better to play the "buy American" card - that one is always good for brownie points from those who think the same but also don't take the time to educate themselves on the deeper issues.

you got me convinced! you hiring?

"There are plenty of former Marines who take my view and still consider themselves loyal to the USA." you know that for a fact?

i didn't say anything about being guaranteed a job. i also didn't call any employer's evil

 

[JB Cases]

I am making it harder for Americans to make a living?

Back it up? Show the numbers to back up your statement? Jesus do you ever run out of silly statements like this that you cannot prove?

Right now through our efforts - 18 American familes are getting a paycheck every week. Depsite the fact that sales are down 30-40% no one has been yet fired from Sterling Gaming as a result of slower sales. For the last 10 years Cuesight and Sterling Gaming have produced millions of dollars in revenue and almost all of it has gone back into the American economy in the form of wages, fees, utilities, and services purchased from American suppliers.

Additionally the profit from the goods sold to retailers has gone to fund their endeavors, including overhead and wages among other things. Also all in the USA.

So please spare me on the nonsense about making it harder for Americans to make a living when we are paying 18 American families.

 

[chin0]

it's sad to say it but it's looking like pretty soon people will have to find a different country to go do to chase the american dream because it might not be in america much longer

It is sad to say and that is putting it lightly. I enjoy my freedom here in the U.S. I mean, as much as I disagree with certain events that has happened in the past caused by the U.S. I feel love for this country and I am pretty loyal to the U.S. as well. That is why I try to find common ground and not bias towards either. I mean, my American dream were to own a house in the west coast over looking the bay, but from what I am seeing, I have to say I might have to come back for it when I am older to relive the American dream.