Low deflection shafts and higher end custom cues

[Celtic]

Yep. And I gave my opinion. So, you have an issue with that??

And that opinion was that there are alot of close minded folks on the thread? At least those other people had opinions on the topic of the thread, putting a certain shaft on a certain cue, and not a personal opinion on the posters "within" that thread. But, if that is your bag to post opinions about the people within the thread instead of the topic of the thread go nuts I guess.

 

[quadrary]

low d shaft

It is further true that shaft is probably in the neighborhood of 30 percent of hit with the joint being about 30 percent of hit and tip being about 40 percent so if you are so wrapped up in what the cue maker intended dont change the tip either.

 

[KMRUNOUT]

Your car analogy doesn't really address what was behind my earlier post.

A "low-deflection" shaft is not a "no-deflection" shaft. The cue ball still deflects, or squirts, when it is hit with side spin with a low deflection shaft. It just squirts less than it would with a regular-deflection shaft.

So squirt compensation is still needed with low-deflection shafts. There are several techniques to compensate. If one prefers to compensate for squirt by using back-hand english (rather than parallel english, front-hand english, or some combination of techniques), then he is best served by using a shaft with a pivot point approximately at the bridging point. With a low-deflection shaft, the pivot point is generally farther from the tip of the cue than one would normally like to use for a bridging point.

So, for players who compensate for squirt by using BHE, a regular-deflection shaft is a higher performance shaft, i.e., a "better" shaft.

I play with an Andy Gilbert cue and a Predator 314-2 shaft. I find backhand english to work wonderfully, almost magically, with this setup. Sadly I miss lots of balls if I try to use this technique with my Gilbert shaft. The hit feels nicer, but I can't make balls...which one should I use? LOL.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

And most average drivers are better at driving a Ford then a Ferrari.

And that is fine, but those people are best suited simply buying a Ford. Buying a Ferrari and immediately ripping out the engine and putting in an engine of a Ford in its place is of questionable value.

Putting a Predator shaft on some of the more sought after and exclusive custom cues that are renowned for their "hit" is defeating the purpose of owning one of those cues because a Hercek with a Predator shaft on it plays NOTHING like a Hercek anymore. You just changed a Ferrari into a glorified Miata.

Highly flawed analogy. You let your preferences creep in. You are implying that the Predator shaft will not *perform* as well as the standard shaft. I can guarantee that it does for me. Craftsmanship is pretty much irrelevant when evaluating performance. They are both nice things to appreciate, but generally do not depend on each other.

KMRUNOUT

 

[KMRUNOUT]

I have a problem with it and I'll tell you why. Its OK to post your opinion here one AZ, after all that's one of the reasons we are all here, to share and hear other's ideas and opinions. So yeah, give yours, but please do it "AZ STYLE":

1) State your "opinion" as if it were "fact"

2) Show disbelief that anyone else could be stupid enough to think any way but the way you do

3) "Defend" your opinion by berating, and if possible, degrading anyone crazy enough to think differently.

4) Talk as if you are shouting as we all know the LOUDEST opinion is the most righteous.

Anyway, try that and see if it doesn't work better for you.

Thanks

Kevin

Hilarious!!

KMRUNOUT

 

[Celtic]

It is further true that shaft is probably in the neighborhood of 30 percent of hit with the joint being about 30 percent of hit and tip being about 40 percent so if you are so wrapped up in what the cue maker intended dont change the tip either.

With regards to tip hardness that is 100% true. A hard vs soft tip changes the hit of a cue quite alot. Soft kamui vs soft moori, not much of a change in the hit.

I would say the shaft of a cue might be more like 40% of the overall hit, taper changes alone drastically alter the hit of a cue as does shaft thickness.

The one piece of advice I would give anyone for getting a predator shaft for a custom cue is get a predator blank and get the cuemaker to build the new shaft out of that blank with the proper custom joint they use.

 

[AtLarge]

I play with an Andy Gilbert cue and a Predator 314-2 shaft. I find backhand english to work wonderfully, almost magically, with this setup. Sadly I miss lots of balls if I try to use this technique with my Gilbert shaft. The hit feels nicer, but I can't make balls...which one should I use? LOL.

KMRUNOUT

The key for BHE is matching your bridge length with the shaft's pivot point. Perhaps you do that better with the 314-2.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Celtic:
Putting a Predator shaft on some of the more sought after and exclusive custom cues that are renowned for their "hit" is defeating the purpose of owning one of those cues because a Hercek with a Predator shaft on it plays NOTHING like a Hercek anymore. You just changed a Ferrari into a glorified Miata.

There's nothing objectively special about the "hit" of a high-priced custom cue - it's something you learn to prefer because it comes with your beautiful piece of art and because you're used to it. Real "performance" (other than the "hit") is pretty much all about how much squirt the shaft produces. If you like low squirt but want to play with a thing of artistic beauty, by all means screw a low-squirt shaft onto your piece-of-art custom butt. You won't be sacrificing any objective "performance".

pj
chgo

 

[Celtic]

There's nothing objectively special about the "hit" of a high-priced custom cue - it's something you learn to prefer because it comes with your beautiful piece of art and because you're used to it. Real "performance" (other than the "hit") is pretty much all about how much squirt the shaft produces. If you like low squirt but want to play with a thing of artistic beauty, by all means screw a low-squirt shaft onto your piece-of-art custom butt. You won't be sacrificing any objective "performance".

pj
chgo

Read what you quoted, only slower. I specifically said "some" custom cues and further added "that are renowned for their hit".

There are some specific custom cues that are sought after because of a distinct hit. Southwest cues would be an example, they are not usually all that impressive in the looks department, but they are known to be one of the better hitting custom cues and that drives their price to where it is.

Richard Black has built some of the most artistic and pretty cues out there, but on a thread about top teir shooting cues his name is rarely mentioned. The hit of a cue is NOT solely linked to how pretty the cue maker made it.

I was not talking about custom cues in general.

 

[quadrary]

With regards to tip hardness that is 100% true. A hard vs soft tip changes the hit of a cue quite alot. Soft kamui vs soft moori, not much of a change in the hit.

I would say the shaft of a cue might be more like 40% of the overall hit, taper changes alone drastically alter the hit of a cue as does shaft thickness.

The one piece of advice I would give anyone for getting a predator shaft for a custom cue is get a predator blank and get the cuemaker to build the new shaft out of that blank with the proper custom joint they use.

i would argue there is more difference in tips than just hardness. There can be and are 2 tips which can have exactly the same durometer reading under a test nd then have a totally different rebound coefficient and will hit totally different.

 

[Peanut1pool]

I got a Hercek shaft on my predator sneaky and it plays great!

 

[BrokeHustler]

what ever you like , end of story..

 

[Peanut1pool]

I got a Hercek shaft on my predator sneaky and it plays great!

I'm sorry, I thought this was the High End Shaft on a LD butt thread. I apologize.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Read what you quoted, only slower. I specifically said "some" custom cues and further added "that are renowned for their hit".

I meant all of them (read that slowly). The hit of any of these cues doesn't matter at all to any objective measure of performance - even the popularity of the feel of their hit is probably more due to reputation than to objective qualities.

pj
chgo

 

[poolhustler]

I have a problem with it and I'll tell you why. Its OK to post your opinion here one AZ, after all that's one of the reasons we are all here, to share and hear other's ideas and opinions. So yeah, give yours, but please do it "AZ STYLE":

1) State your "opinion" as if it were "fact"

2) Show disbelief that anyone else could be stupid enough to think any way but the way you do

3) "Defend" your opinion by berating, and if possible, degrading anyone crazy enough to think differently.

4) Talk as if you are shouting as we all know the LOUDEST opinion is the most righteous.

Anyway, try that and see if it doesn't work better for you.

Thanks

Kevin

Will do Sir!!

 

[quadrary]

I meant all of them (read that slowly). The hit of any of these cues doesn't matter at all to any objective measure of performance - even the popularity of the feel of their hit is probably more due to reputation than to objective qualities.

pj
chgo

i have to agree with that and add that what yeilds best performance for one person may well be worst for someone else as i personally have never liked the hit of a southwest.

 

[Celtic]

i would argue there is more difference in tips than just hardness. There can be and are 2 tips which can have exactly the same durometer reading under a test nd then have a totally different rebound coefficient and will hit totally different.

I have not noticed a huge difference in the hit with similar hardness tops bit it is possible you are right as changing a tip takes some time and it is tough to do side by side comparisons. It would be cool to try out 10 different tip types of the dame hardness on identical shafts one after another and see what the differences are.

If you have an idea on this stuff, for a tip in the medium/medium soft range of a morri which tip type have you found gives the most muted feedback?

 

[poolhustler]

And that opinion was that there are alot of close minded folks on the thread.......

If the shoe fits...........

 

[Celtic]

I meant all of them (read that slowly). The hit of any of these cues doesn't matter at all to any objective measure of performance - even the popularity of the feel of their hit is probably more due to reputation than to objective qualities.

pj
chgo

From personal objective experience I respectfully disagree with you completely on that.

 

[quadrary]

I have not noticed a huge difference in the hit with similar hardness tops bit it is possible you are right as changing a tip takes some time and it is tough to do side by side comparisons. It would be cool to try out 10 different tip types of the dame hardness on identical shafts one after another and see what the differences are.

If you have an idea on this stuff, for a tip in the medium/medium soft range of a morri which tip type have you found gives the most muted feedback?

i would have to say least feedback would be a kamui ss but that is a little softer than a med soft snd after that an elk unpressed however the kamui ss is a whole different tip agter it compresses to about half its original height then i love it and the feedback is increased. I guess i would also say black ss is about a med after it compresses to that point.