I've done more than a few carefully controlled and measured comparisons on many different high- and low-squirt shafts. Never found a significant difference for the same tip offset and speed.
pj
chgo
Low deflection shafts and higher end custom cues
- Thread starter No Limit
- Start date
pj
chgo
Sir, If i have got 2000$ to spent on a cue...and i already know that my preference is Predator 314 2 shaft...i will find a dealer ...a big one...put the money on table...ask the dealer to bring all his predator....trial it one by one...until i get my specs....give him extra 50$ for his effort to help me...that's all....in no way i gonna ask a great custom cue maker like Hercek to make me a butt that suit my LD shafts.... but, that's me....
And most average drivers are better at driving a Ford then a Ferrari.
And that is fine, but those people are best suited simply buying a Ford. Buying a Ferrari and immediately ripping out the engine and putting in an engine of a Ford in its place is of questionable value.
Putting a Predator shaft on some of the more sought after and exclusive custom cues that are renowned for their "hit" is defeating the purpose of owning one of those cues because a Hercek with a Predator shaft on it plays NOTHING like a Hercek anymore. You just changed a Ferrari into a glorified Miata.
I am not sure about that PJ. A few tests here wold be useful. Hyothesis: An LD shaft can produce more spin than a regular shaft when the CB is hit 1/4" off center on the horizontal axis.
Seems to me it does but I have no way to tell. Now I know you are going to get into the physics and that is OK with me. Perhaps the speed of the shaft increases with an LD shaft for the same amount of power?
In my opinion your theory goes well with the predator shaft ... the low deflection of the preds is around 10% and they called it a smart shaft. imagine the center of the CB is 1/2, using the preds is very easy using english all u have to do is drag the center hitting point to 3/4 for right english or 1/4 for left english...and watch the CB spins...but when you do a full/ heavy english the CB is spining wildly...kinda a hard to do perfect angle that is supposed to do...
I don't want to make a promotion out of this but the fact is Anwar Shaft Low Deflection is around 5% which is lower than the preds...the CB control is much more controlable as such that even using heavy english goes to the direction as planned...
Me and my teammates have tried this test a couple of times, using the same power every hit with the same condition...wheather condition, table quality conditon. Also the most importantly, when we are testing the english the cue is as horizontal as the table thus avoiding unwanted squirt/swerve.
Last edited:
I have 6 314's (yes 6...old models) for my custom. 2 Play perfect. 2 Play "almost as well" and 2 are average. Wood is wood and no two play exactly alike. You can't fight the physics. How much difference between best to worst is tough to quantify but I would guesstimate about 10% more squirt. I play with the first two exclusively and cycle them with tip life (moori med). The others 2 are travelers that go with my back up cue. The other two I have experimented with various mm and tips for laughs. Tried a OB1. Liked the performance but found it too flexible for my liking. Nice quality and performance but not for me.
Why do I play with Predator is simple. I found them more linear performers than conventional shafts. I'm old enough to know I could play with anything. I'm young enough to change to engineered solution. The money I spent on my cues is more than just performance. I like a certain weight and dimensions that are not available off the shelf. The balance is sex appeal. Why pick the ugliest girl to dance and have kids with?
Why do I play with Predator is simple. I found them more linear performers than conventional shafts. I'm old enough to know I could play with anything. I'm young enough to change to engineered solution. The money I spent on my cues is more than just performance. I like a certain weight and dimensions that are not available off the shelf. The balance is sex appeal. Why pick the ugliest girl to dance and have kids with?
Last edited:
Along with those Ooohs and ahhs you are going to get a few WTF's as well when some of those people hear you have a predator shaft on a 10k Gina.
I question the sense of this TBH. I can see a polint to playing with an actual Gina including a Gina shaft, the cue is distinct and has a specific style of hit based on the builder. Taking a 10k Gina and putting a Predator shaft on it and then going out and playing with it? You are not actually playing with a proper Gina anymore, the Predator shaft will destroy any of the purity of playing with the cue.
I I like Champagne mixed with orange juice, but I am not about to go using a bottle of Krug or Crystal and mixing it with some OJ. Any $30 bottle of Champagne will completely suffice and anything more expensive is a total waste because the OJ kills the nuances of the more expensive champagne. A predator shaft on a Gina would be akin to mixing Sunny D into your Dom.
Hey man...I'm at the Sheraton in Calgary. I called room service and they don't have any Dom. So much for my chance to experiment on my employers dime.
I have a nice cocobolo Scruggs I bought in 98. I loved the look of the cue, but I hated the play of the shafts. I switched to a Predator shaft and then all was perfect.
What's wrong with having something that you like and then modify so that you like it even better?
My Scruggs I bought for playing with. It stays in the trunk of my car year round. So I'm not going to hesitate switching the shaft to play the way I want. Thats just how I look at it, but I can also understand the viewpoint of playing with only the original shaft.
What's wrong with having something that you like and then modify so that you like it even better?
My Scruggs I bought for playing with. It stays in the trunk of my car year round. So I'm not going to hesitate switching the shaft to play the way I want. Thats just how I look at it, but I can also understand the viewpoint of playing with only the original shaft.
Hey man...I'm at the Sheraton in Calgary. I called room service and they don't have any Dom. So much for my chance to experiment on my employers dime.
Freaking Sheraton.... well worth testing my theory when on the employers dime IMO.
So...you are LD Player..that's ok...that's good....alex pagulayan win the world championship with his schon and LD Pred 314 2...
i'm not saying that custom cue is bigger than production cue. in playability standard...no..it's just a matter of preference..i know
The OP ask our suggestion on put a LD Predator on his 2000$ Hercek cue...that is i believe the main topic here.
If you really like a predator 314 2 ...why don't you buy a predator cue...predator cue only cost you under 1000$ or you can get the fancy one if you willing to add more... why you buy a 2000$ HERCEK.and buy a Predator shaft 225$ to replace his shaft. I know it's his money..he have any right to spend to what ever he wish with his own money...but that is not logic to me..that's my point. Don't tell me about balance thing...cue weight and etc...that's all bullshit...like i said before you can pick any predator cue on a big dealer ...trial it one by one..if you don't satisfied...find another dealer...try it one by one until you got the specs...buy it and play with it....
but, if you decide to play with a solid maple shaft and ask Joel Hercek to make you a custom one...play with it until you master it...it's the matter of time for you to available play with it...
Lots of really bad analogies here so far.
Who the hell cares if someone wants to usea LD shaft on a high dollar cue?
Its the owners cue, they can use whatever they want and whatever they like.
Lots of close minded folks here.
Guess you can tell how I feel about this topic!! lolzzzz
To the OP, use whatever kind of shaft you prefer and don't worry about what anyone else says about it.
Who the hell cares if someone wants to usea LD shaft on a high dollar cue?
Its the owners cue, they can use whatever they want and whatever they like.
Lots of close minded folks here.
Guess you can tell how I feel about this topic!! lolzzzz
To the OP, use whatever kind of shaft you prefer and don't worry about what anyone else says about it.
Most production cues look like garbage compared to custom cues. That is one great reason to buy a 2K custom cue, and put a shaft of your choice on it. I mean lets get real here, a pro will shoot like a pro with a Bushka or a housecue. A "C" player will shoot like a C player with both. And a banger will shoot like a banger with both. Buying an expensive cue is more about feeling good about what you have, liking the appearance and quality, compensating for lack of game, or maybe showing off. Its not going to make you play one bit better.
I bought an expensive cue for a little bit of all the above reasons, and I still suck! lol
Really great reading so far with the additional responses.
It's because I wanted to try out another good hitting cue. The 1st one I bought was a Gilbert cue. I feel that it shoots great with a pre-cat 314 that I happened to buy off the forums over here. I'm always careful with anything I own, not just cue sticks. There's no difference whether I have a McDermott or a Hercek because I will try my best not to abuse the equipment. I'm not looking to sell this Hercek or Gilbert either. Anyway, another reason why I bought this Hercek is because I wanted to buy something that's one of a kind. I don't want to be shooting with something that looks like what everyone else shoots with.
That's good to know. I was going to buy an OB Classic before I read this.
What I do know is that I have a Z2 shaft fitted to another cue that I have. I have long, skinny fingers and I can actually feel the shaft getting narrow as I stroke. I don't like that feeling.
It's because I wanted to try out another good hitting cue. The 1st one I bought was a Gilbert cue. I feel that it shoots great with a pre-cat 314 that I happened to buy off the forums over here. I'm always careful with anything I own, not just cue sticks. There's no difference whether I have a McDermott or a Hercek because I will try my best not to abuse the equipment. I'm not looking to sell this Hercek or Gilbert either. Anyway, another reason why I bought this Hercek is because I wanted to buy something that's one of a kind. I don't want to be shooting with something that looks like what everyone else shoots with.
That's good to know. I was going to buy an OB Classic before I read this.
What I do know is that I have a Z2 shaft fitted to another cue that I have. I have long, skinny fingers and I can actually feel the shaft getting narrow as I stroke. I don't like that feeling.
Of course the owner can do whatever they want, do you think the OP was asking bloody permission? The OP was asking for opinions on putting the predator on a Hercek cue and that is what people are giving him, their opinion, which is what the OP was asking for.
But WTG on giving him your permission to use a predator shaft on his Hercek, I am sure he really appreciates it...
Yep. And I gave my opinion. So, you have an issue with that??
I have a problem with it and I'll tell you why. Its OK to post your opinion here one AZ, after all that's one of the reasons we are all here, to share and hear other's ideas and opinions. So yeah, give yours, but please do it "AZ STYLE":
1) State your "opinion" as if it were "fact"
2) Show disbelief that anyone else could be stupid enough to think any way but the way you do
3) "Defend" your opinion by berating, and if possible, degrading anyone crazy enough to think differently.
4) Talk as if you are shouting as we all know the LOUDEST opinion is the most righteous.
Anyway, try that and see if it doesn't work better for you.
Thanks
Kevin
That would be fine except that first predator doesnt make any cues to my specs so that isnt possible and second i am not fond of their designs or their joints. So my only real choibe is to have a cue made to my specs with the shaft of my choice but nice try for me the cue brand is not an ego thing as it is for a good many people just a tool to do what i want it to.
well I was a bit harsh..
but the fact remains if you want a predator buy one for $200. and use the other $1800 for something else.
To toss away world class maple in favor of scraps and glue is an insult to the art of cue making.
now if you will excuse me I have to go pull the engine out of a Toyota Camry.. and put it in my Bentley.. because the guy at the stoplight says Camry engines are better..and the commercials say they are the best engines in existence
With all due respect, I personally don't care what "someone says" or what the "marketing hype" says. I select my equipment based on how it performs *in my hands*. I agonized over the decision to shoot with a Predator, because I find the quality of the hit to be superior in a good solid maple shaft. I still do. In some ways I regret making that transition because now I pretty much have to shoot with a Predator or I miss a lot of balls. Could I relearn how to shoot with a regular shaft? Probably. But I just don't have the time to invest to do that. My life isn't long enough to spend that time going backwards. The bottom line is that the Predator shaft performs *differently* than a standard maple shaft. This difference for me translates into a much easier time using english, and a greatly increased accuracy when doing so. I would have to be pretty mindless to totally ignore this effect in my hands, and not lend it any consideration. I understand the attitude of highly respecting cues and cuemakers. I LOVE nice cues. But honestly, I see that sort of reverence as really no different than blindly buying into marketing hype without understanding the differences. In both cases you are judging something based on criteria *other than* how it actually plays. So screwing my 314-2 shaft onto my beautiful Andy Gilbert cue that I had specially made just for me doesn't bother me in the slightest. Why? Because it works well for me. If it makes someone else cringe at the thought...sorry for them. Now if that Predator shaft didn't do what it claimed...that would be a different story. But as someone who has thoroughly tested the equipment and made a decision based not on aesthetics or "tradition", I can say that it does indeed work well for me. Given that fact, I would be a fool to use something different if my real goal was improved play.
I'm a pool player, not a cuemaker or cue collector.
I believe the auto analogy doesn't work at all. You are already assuming that the Predator shaft does not perform as well as the standard maple shaft. The differences in the Predator are clear, demonstrable, and provable. You don't have to like it, play with it, or believe it. When it comes to performance, the Predator products can potentially outperform the standard shafts in certain ways that are *directly* related to one's pool performance. Thus the Predator seems more like the Ferrari in the analogy (which is technically a mass produced vehicle, albeit produced in small quantities), and a nice custom cuemaker's maple shaft is more like a "custom" car built in a way that is more based on feel and belief than research and development. Both can be excellent options, and it is misleading to suggest that the Predator is the crappier product. I have many Predator shafts, and over 10 years plus have not had any problems with them. Except for the problem of inside english being a lot more accurate.
Just remember, once you convert to Predator, it becomes a lot more difficult to grab a cue off the wall and play like you are used to. That is the biggest down side I see.
Good luck, and do what works best for you!
KMRUNOUT
Last edited:
Perhaps some of us have more discerning tastes than you do and prefer the dom with the sunny d but if you cant taste the difference that is fine for you. I also prefer stoli and tanguerey regardless what mixer i use.
Last edited: