Low Deflection shafts, Are they worth it?

[Shooter08]

I think a person should buy whatever they want to play with, but I do not think you will ever live up to your full potential without a standard maple/ash shaft. You may be able to reduce your margin for error on many shots that functionally you are not executing with LD, but you are also reducing the spectrum of shots that are possible by using a LD shaft. I expect LD shaft fans to dispute this and will not comment more, nobody can win this discussion.

 

[KRJ]

You do understand the exact same description of yours I've quoted above can apply to a standard maple shaft. I can shoot any shot from any length with any type and amount of spin I want & the ball will go exactly where I aim & I want it to go.

The difference is I have put in the time to understand squirt & adjust subconsciously for it. Your statement is true in that it allows you & others to do this with these LD things WITHOUT having to put in the time & learn about squirt.

It's kind of how training wheels allow you to ride a bike without having a conception of how to remain upright without them due to inexperience. But as you pedal around on training wheels you look around and see plenty of people riding around WITHOUT needing them, they put in the time & learned how. LD is a crutch for the uninitiated.

Ok, what about the folks that did put in the time, and got pretty good with it, but not perfect. Then start using an LD shaft, and suddenly, a few less "pocket" rattles every set, higher shot percentage using inside English with LD than with maple.

Thus, should we stick with something that does not work as well for "us" or use an LD that helps "us" play a little better? Remember, on many, many shots, I don't adjust at all, not one millimeter, especially on a barbox, and that's kinda nice in my book.

So, maybe LD's are the steroids of pool, so what, they are legal, non toxic, and not addictive... ok, the last one is a lie

Remember, if you like your maple shaft, you can keep your maple shaft

 

[jburkm002]

I think a person should buy whatever they want to play with, but I do not think you will ever live up to your full potential without a standard maple/ash shaft. You may be able to reduce your margin for error on many shots that functionally you are not executing with LD, but you are also reducing the spectrum of shots that are possible by using a LD shaft. I expect LD shaft fans to dispute this and will not comment more, nobody can win this discussion.

Could you explain the shots that can not be made with an LD shaft?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

 

[HawaiianEye]

Could you explain the shots that can not be made with an LD shaft?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

I don't do them often, nor do I recommend them, but it is much easier to do extreme masse shots with my 14mm maple shaft than it is with my LD shaft.

Even if it can be done with my Predator FAT 314-2 shaft, it is hollow at the end and I'm not willing to attempt one and possibly shatter it.

 

[KRJ]

I don't do them often, nor do I recommend them, but it is much easier to do extreme masse shots with my 14mm maple shaft than it is with my LD shaft.

Even if it can be done with my Predator FAT 314-2 shaft, it is hollow at the end and I'm not willing to attempt one and possibly shatter it.

Yes, that is true. Thus, I will pull out my jump cue and jump over it or masse around it. This shot does NOT come up to often. Using English, however, comes up quite frequently

 

[ENGLISH!]

----------------------------------

 

[Player]

Could you explain the shots that can not be made with an LD shaft?

Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk

On TOI shots you can stay closer to center CB with a non LD shaft.

Also, like H.E. said, masse works a lot better, and not just on "extreme masse" shots.
I don't use a lot of extreme masse, but I do use a little fairly often.
Like when a ball is just partially in the way of where you want to go, I'll sometimes use what I always called the "bowling ball" shot. Where the CB squirts out and then swerves back in to get around the obstacle.

Also on bank shots I use English mostly to create the angle I want and need the squirt for it to work right.

I use squirt to make combos too.

That's a few. Some of these you can do with a LD shaft but they are a lot easier with a regular one. For me. YMMV.

 

[SamLambert]

Yes, they are.

 

[EddieBme]

I'm shooting 31 inch shafts at about 12mm and 11.75mm, and loving it.

Are those LD, or solid maple shafts?

 

[caff3in3]

I don't do them often, nor do I recommend them, but it is much easier to do extreme masse shots with my 14mm maple shaft than it is with my LD shaft.

Even if it can be done with my Predator FAT 314-2 shaft, it is hollow at the end and I'm not willing to attempt one and possibly shatter it.

I love predator shafts but have noticed this quite a bit. Masse shots don't 'bite' the same way with them. I grab a house cue for these. Even smaller Masse shots are much easier with a standard shaft. There are also times when deflection helps and you can use it to your advantage if you know how.

To each their own. Despite their flaws, I will always play with a LD shaft when I can. I juice up the cue ball quite a bit and they suit my playing style

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

 

[deanoc]

Remind me again,what is low deflection
I am used to getting the shaft
and it is seldom worth it

 

[Straightpool_99]

These are my experiences from playing with Predator Z and Z2 shafts, the lowest deflecting shafts on the market for many years. Some of this is also true for 314 shafts:

Pros:
1. When playing on responsive equipment, you'll feel like a f-ing surgeon! The control one can achieve over the amount of spin at slow to medium speeds is phenomenal, and deflection is mostly a non-issue. Of course this predicates that the rails actually grab the ball and give a controlled rebound.
2. Small tip will let you see more of the cueball, does not obstruct view. This is more important than it may seem, because it will aid greatly in shotmaking at distance, at least for someone used to playing snooker.

Cons:
1. Whenever you start to really push the limits of the ball, meaning maximum side/top or bottom spin, the shaft will feel weak and inconsistent.
2. Pushing the speed up to max, when you have to punch the ball off a rail, or get too shallow of an angle on a straightpool breakshot, again the shaft will buckle and feel very weak.
3. When you have to play a "no-rail", punch game, like you would on tables with rails that are not acting right, or on very slow cloth, you will realize that the feel of the shaft is not like that of solid maple. The feedback is "dull" and speed control not as consistent as with a solid shaft. It seems like you get short or long alternately, but it's very hard to dial in perfectly on these kinds of shots.

These are my observations and opinions, yours may differ.

 

[TATE]

These are my experiences from playing with Predator Z and Z2 shafts, the lowest deflecting shafts on the market for many years. Some of this is also true for 314 shafts:

Pros:
1. When playing on responsive equipment, you'll feel like a f-ing surgeon! The control one can achieve over the amount of spin at slow to medium speeds is phenomenal, and deflection is mostly a non-issue. Of course this predicates that the rails actually grab the ball and give a controlled rebound.
2. Small tip will let you see more of the cueball, does not obstruct view. This is more important than it may seem, because it will aid greatly in shotmaking at distance, at least for someone used to playing snooker.

Cons:
1. Whenever you start to really push the limits of the ball, meaning maximum side/top or bottom spin, the shaft will feel weak and inconsistent.
2. Pushing the speed up to max, when you have to punch the ball off a rail, or get too shallow of an angle on a straightpool breakshot, again the shaft will buckle and feel very weak.
3. When you have to play a "no-rail", punch game, like you would on tables with rails that are not acting right, or on very slow cloth, you will realize that the feel of the shaft is not like that of solid maple. The feedback is "dull" and speed control not as consistent as with a solid shaft. It seems like you get short or long alternately, but it's very hard to dial in perfectly on these kinds of shots.

These are my observations and opinions, yours may differ.

This is exactly why I am hoping the next generation of LD shafts focuses on feel and balance over very low squirt. I think some makers have done a much better job than Predator in this area. My Tiger Pro X is fairly low squirt but does not feel like a hollow tube (which it isn't).

Personally I would rather have a little more squirt if it means a much better feel than vice-versa.

That being said, I detest playing with high squirt shafts.

 

[Colonel]

On TOI shots you can stay closer to center CB with a non LD shaft.



Also, like H.E. said, masse works a lot better, and not just on "extreme masse" shots.

I don't use a lot of extreme masse, but I do use a little fairly often.

Like when a ball is just partially in the way of where you want to go, I'll sometimes use what I always called the "bowling ball" shot. Where the CB squirts out and then swerves back in to get around the obstacle.



Also on bank shots I use English mostly to create the angle I want and need the squirt for it to work right.



I use squirt to make combos too.



YMMV.

You get it, it's so refreshing
There is so much you can do with deflection if you just embrace it

 

[CrownCityCorey]

This is exactly why I am hoping the next generation of LD shafts focuses on feel and balance over very low squirt. I think some makers have done a much better job than Predator in this area. My Tiger Pro X is fairly low squirt but does not feel like a hollow tube (which it isn't).

Personally I would rather have a little more squirt if it means a much better feel than vice-versa.

That being said, I detest playing with high squirt shafts.

Those Tiger shafts are great! This is the one you are using: http://tigerbilliardcues.com/tiger-...-75mm/pro-xr-no-deflection-shafts-radial.html

 

[HawaiianEye]

These are my experiences from playing with Predator Z and Z2 shafts, the lowest deflecting shafts on the market for many years. Some of this is also true for 314 shafts:

Pros:
1. When playing on responsive equipment, you'll feel like a f-ing surgeon! The control one can achieve over the amount of spin at slow to medium speeds is phenomenal, and deflection is mostly a non-issue. Of course this predicates that the rails actually grab the ball and give a controlled rebound.
2. Small tip will let you see more of the cueball, does not obstruct view. This is more important than it may seem, because it will aid greatly in shotmaking at distance, at least for someone used to playing snooker.

Cons:
1. Whenever you start to really push the limits of the ball, meaning maximum side/top or bottom spin, the shaft will feel weak and inconsistent.
2. Pushing the speed up to max, when you have to punch the ball off a rail, or get too shallow of an angle on a straightpool breakshot, again the shaft will buckle and feel very weak.
3. When you have to play a "no-rail", punch game, like you would on tables with rails that are not acting right, or on very slow cloth, you will realize that the feel of the shaft is not like that of solid maple. The feedback is "dull" and speed control not as consistent as with a solid shaft. It seems like you get short or long alternately, but it's very hard to dial in perfectly on these kinds of shots.

These are my observations and opinions, yours may differ.

I prefer to play on tables that are slower and you are explaining it correctly. I prefer to play TOI and not use a lot of spin, so it takes more "punch" to move the ball around the table. The hollow end reduces the feel and takes some of the "punch" out of the stroke because the shaft deflects away from the cue ball quicker.

 

[KRJ]

Also on bank shots I use English mostly to create the angle I want and need the squirt for it to work right.

I use squirt to make combos too.

.

wha, wha what ?? You need squirt to make a bank shot ?

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

Masse

I love predator shafts but have noticed this quite a bit. Masse shots don't 'bite' the same way with them. I grab a house cue for these. Even smaller Masse shots are much easier with a standard shaft. There are also times when deflection helps and you can use it to your advantage if you know how.

To each their own. Despite their flaws, I will always play with a LD shaft when I can. I juice up the cue ball quite a bit and they suit my playing style

Sent from my SM-G900W8 using Tapatalk

You do understand Masse is French for hammer, and LD is English for Light Duty :thumbup:

 

[Bavafongoul]

What's the most popular LD shaft and does any LD shaft use ivory ferrules?

I don't have the foggiest notion which LD shaft plays the best. I'm also pretty sure that LD shafts use their own ferrule designs and ivory isn't one of them.I play with original maple shafts on all of my cues & if there really was a true advantage to using them, I might have one sent to my cue-maker to get the collar matched. Having played with original shafts for 55 years, I am pretty reliant on the deflection path/allowance for my cues striking a cue ball at every imaginable speed and distance having pocketed in excess of a million pool balls during my lifetime of playing pool. So changing now is against my nature when I really believe that if Willie could accomplish what no other human has achieved with his world records and total domination of the game of pool for decades playing with original shafts like all the other greats of his era also used, why the hell do I need a LD shaft?

Now notice that I wrote "need" not want and I am making a distinction between the two. I find it hard to associate my original maple shafts for my overall level of performance rather than just recognize I'd benefit more from practice & focus on my overall pool game. I don't think this is like golf equipment where it can help turn you into a better player. So is there a best LD shaft and does any LD shafts use an ivory ferrule?

Thanks,


Matt B.

 

[Straightpool_99]

What's the most popular LD shaft and does any LD shaft use ivory ferrules?

I don't have the foggiest notion which LD shaft plays the best. I'm also pretty sure that LD shafts use their own ferrule designs and ivory isn't one of them.I play with original maple shafts on all of my cues & if there really was a true advantage to using them, I might have one sent to my cue-maker to get the collar matched. Having played with original shafts for 55 years, I am pretty reliant on the deflection path/allowance for my cues striking a cue ball at every imaginable speed and distance having pocketed in excess of a million pool balls during my lifetime of playing pool. So changing now is against my nature when I really believe that if Willie could accomplish what no other human has achieved with his world records and total domination of the game of pool for decades playing with original shafts like all the other greats of his era also used, why the hell do I need a LD shaft?

Now notice that I wrote "need" not want and I am making a distinction between the two. I find it hard to associate my original maple shafts for my overall level of performance rather than just recognize I'd benefit more from practice & focus on my overall pool game. I don't think this is like golf equipment where it can help turn you into a better player. So is there a best LD shaft and does any LD shafts use an ivory ferrule?

Thanks,


Matt B.

The most popular ld shaft is Predator 314, or any Predator shaft really, when you go by volume of sale.

I don't know of any ivory ferrule ld shafts, except maybe BD ss360? I think you can get an ivory ferrule on that, not sure.
If I were you, I don't think I'd bother getting an ld shaft. Having played as long as you have, the deflection characteristics of your cues will be so ingrained, it will be hard to change. English! says it was no problem for him, but I think he is an exception. Almost every older player I've seen struggled with the transition, at least for a while. You seem to enjoy your cues a lot, and even if I'm not a big fan of ivory in cues, I think you should stick to what works for you. You obviously have given your preferences a lot of thought and all, so that would be my advice to you.