Low Deflection Shafts - What's Your Opinion???

[CJ Wiley]

Moving the ball at will.

I don't think about LD shafts at all. If you understand it, then deflection is your best friend

Yes, it's like the golf clubs designed to cut down on curve(spin) - they may help beginners, but there's an advantage to moving the ball at will.

This is how zones are created and margin of error maximized.

 

[CJ Wiley]

3 part pocket system

CJ, When I first stated playing pool I bought your first video that you had out. In it it talks about making the pocket play bigger using outside spin. So my question to you is this, what is up with this TOI stuff? It contradicts what you taught in your first video.

This is called 'The Three Part Pocket System' and you can utilize it with spin or Deflection.....I have shown both ways, and prefer the TOI on worn cloth.

 

[CJ Wiley]

why it's vital to use TOI or TOO

Some postings of some people do sound more like a sales pitch for their method / system / instructions to me so I'm a bit careful...

I'm a pool newbie and as such do not have any legacy thoughts on anything. To me it's very simple: the less I need to compensate the better.

Also when I'm playing Carom the squirt is really anoying and causes me to miss a lot of shots. It's very different from pool because the CB usually is much closer to the OBs and far less force but much more spin is wanted - which causes you to usually hit the OB long before the back-swerve of the CB. The compensation can be as much as 1/2 to 3/4 of a ball for a maximum spin hit.
No wonder the real Carom guys play with extremely short ferrules and <11mm tips while the 3 cushionists have it >11mm because they need to exert more force and less precision.

For me it's been clear from the start: I will not buy a normal huge squirt shaft and I do not like solid woods for stressed parts. Too much can go wrong and the preselection needs to be done carfully.
I've been starting out with a R360 shaft (not bad in all regards), upgraded to a Universal cue (a bit better) and now am trying out a Tiger LD (not the thin "no D" shaft) which has a very similar feel but around 30-40% less throw.
It's a very perceptive shaft, gorgeous light maple, well-made - so a big win in my book.

If you're on the finer side of things with lots of spin you might try and like it.
Obviously you'll need to adjust your aim :smile:

Cheers.

I see your point, just keep in mind that the only place we can increase margin of error is at contact. This is why it's vital to favor one side of center cue ball!

 

[Badbeat13]

Without reading the thread and responses, I'm NOT
a fan of LD shafts. I'm still old school. As Patrick
Henry once said "Give me maple or give me death".

 

[ENGLISH!]

Hi Rick,
I understand that on certain slowish and medium speed longer shots, swerve and squirt essentially cancel out. However, I only ever play these types of shots when a hanger is on offer, or I have absolutely no other positional option. [edit]: I forgot to mention safety shots, where slower longer shots with side come up pretty often.

Having watched a lot of the pros playing this past month, around 70 hours or so of 9-ball, I'd estimate that on 80%+ of the occasions when they used significant english, they were on medium firm to firm speeds and they had to allow for squirt on these shots.

So it seems you aren't playing the same kind of shots pros do, or perhaps you're playing a lot of 1-pocket or 14.1?

To me, there's nothing more satisfying than executing stroke shots with english and creating advanced positional routes around the table. You're missing all the fun

Cheers,
Colin

Hi Colin,

I played mostly 8 ball & have only been playing one Pocket for less than 6 months.

All I can tell you is that I've been using english since I was 13 & that was almost 49 years ago.

Also, like I've said, I'm rather glad that I started before I ever took my first physics class & I almost never think of the physics involved. I just play much like I did when I was say 15. I hit all over the ball & out near the miscue area 'all' of the time. I generally always had a very soft Elk Master tip & just not long age started using a Kamui Black medium.

I will say this. Before about 5 years ago when I bought a cue with a juiced 314 CAT shaft, I 'never' gave squirt a thought. My focus has always been on the swerve aspect.

The human Mind is an amazing Entity.

Cheers.

 

[RiverCity]

So these shafts are for beginners.......Just think how good guys like Darren Appleton will be once they get past the beginner stage........ :thumbup:

 

[Dave-Kat]

Is it just me or does this comment reek of jealousy :groucho:

I know CJ's a busy guy, so I'd like to thank him for taking the 10 seconds to cut-and-paste this post from a couple of years ago. Very generous.

I'm sure he didn't just do it as an excuse to repost the link to his website and for-sale stuff. I mean, he's not that kinda guy, right?

pj <- wouldn't be neighborly
chgo

 

[KMRUNOUT]

My question is do Dufferin one piece house cues deflect? If so how much compared to a two piece cue with a maple shaft or a two piece cue with a LD shaft.

I ask this question because I can walk in a grab a house cue and run out, if the tip is in ok condition, but I really struggled playing with a friends LD shaft.

He asked me to match up with a guy who had beat him out of some money, I didn't have my cues with me so I started the match with his cue, struggled for first set.

When I found a house cue, that I could use things got back to normal.

Sounds like you answered your own question. Dufferin house cues deflect a lot. Pretty much like any standard maple shaft. Much more than a LD shaft, particularly Predator and OB.

KMRUNOUT

 

[Joegolf]

Into the fire

I'm new here and certainly don't want any heat. I've just purchased CJ's DVDs and after 50 years of play I'm still trying to learn. Unfortunately I haven't been able to take the touch of inside to the tables yet but the DVDs have given me a renewed excitement for learning the game. I'll have my new table in a couple of weeks and I certainly am going to give CJs system a workout. His logic makes sense in every way. I'm glad that I bought the videos and believe they will take me to a better level.

 

[HawaiianEye]

Is it just me or does this comment reek of jealousy :groucho:

You have made a 100% accurate assessment if you ask me.

 

[poolplaya1]

I love my low deflection cue, wouldn't change it for the world.

The three section pocket is an idea I had visualized before in my mind, but I haven't put it in play yet. I wonder whether a touch of outside shrinks the pocket when compared to a touch of inside. My initial guess would be yes, but more thinking is in order.

Another strategy is always using gearing english, for that you would just aim at the center of the pocket, but from my experience most people do not know where the center of the pocket is. The draw back is that with gearing english you might not be able to get shape on your next ball, so you will need to be proficient with inside english and throw on those shots. Center ball position play is easy for me, and I am sure for a lot of you as well.

It makes no sense to me why a person would want to hit a ball with 3 inches of deflection versus an inch and a half. The less deflection your stick causes the closer to the object ball you can aim. When the object ball is closer to your aim point you get the added bonus of seeing the balls closer together in your mind, their relationship allows you to aim more effectively. Conversely with 3 inches of deflection you are aiming the cue ball out into the middle of nowhere. The relationship of the cue and object ball are much further apart, making it harder to grasp their relationship. I do understand that you can get used to anything and play really well with high deflection shafts, I just think intuitively less deflection means more accuracy. I could be wrong

Happy shooting!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I wonder whether a touch of outside shrinks the pocket when compared to a touch of inside.

Neither has any effect like that. They work just like non-spin shots, except a little harder to aim. Don't believe these "silver bullet" fantasies.

pj
chgo

 

[Ron Swanson]

Is it just me or does this comment reek of jealousy :groucho:

I would sincerely hope so.

Next up: CJs thread about his sudden fascination with aiming systems. Im fully expecting something about Barak Obama in NPR, too.

 

[CJ Wiley]

We're getting close now, the secret will be revealed tonight!!

I'm new here and certainly don't want any heat. I've just purchased CJ's DVDs and after 50 years of play I'm still trying to learn. Unfortunately I haven't been able to take the touch of inside to the tables yet but the DVDs have given me a renewed excitement for learning the game. I'll have my new table in a couple of weeks and I certainly am going to give CJs system a workout. His logic makes sense in every way. I'm glad that I bought the videos and believe they will take me to a better level.

Thanks, when you have any questions please email me directly.

Tonight in Des Moines Iowa I'm going to explain and demonstrate how the Touch of Inside works at the highest level. Also a secret of why the pros have no need to allow for Deflection or spin.

I'll be at BIG DOG Billiards from 7-10 and its presented as a complimentary Seminar, exhibition, and Q&A Session.

Thanks again, and enjoy the rest of my DVDs ....the next 3 people that post a question about TOI will receive a FREE DVD from me (next 5 hours only).

 

[pocket]

Thanks, when you have any questions please email me directly.

Tonight in Des Moines Iowa I'm going to explain and demonstrate how the Touch of Inside works at the highest level. Also a secret of why the pros have no need to allow for Deflection or spin.

I'll be at BIG DOG Billiards from 7-10 and its presented as a complimentary Seminar, exhibition, and Q&A Session.

Thanks again, and enjoy the rest of my DVDs ....the next 3 people that post a question about TOI will receive a FREE DVD from me (next 5 hours only).

Alright,

Something I don't understand about the system, what happens when you need english on a shot, if you need inside english do you add a touch more? How about outside english, a touch less?

 

[Drop The Rock]

How do you use TOI in one pocket? Finesse might be more difficult, kicking and long distance rolling the cue ball would be more difficult to predict wouldn't they?

 

[CJ Wiley]

TOI - The Inside of Center Reference Point

Alright,

Something I don't understand about the system, what happens when you need english on a shot, if you need inside english do you add a touch more? How about outside english, a touch less?

Sure, you can spin the ball any way you choose using TOI as you reference point.

Remember, the Touch is a feeling, not a visual measurement..... you could think of it as the Inside of center if you like.

The only time you need to spin the cue ball is to change an angle off the cushion, to curve the ball, or to throw it when they are close at times.

 

[CJ Wiley]

Ask Scott Frost if he favors the Inside of center and see what he says.!

How do you use TOI in one pocket? Finesse might be more difficult, kicking and long distance rolling the cue ball would be more difficult to predict wouldn't they?

Ask Scott Frost if he favors the Inside of center and see what he says. Jason Chance ask him last week and I know his reply.....Efren also favors the Inside, I've played him one pocket and 9-Ball many times.

 

[fastone371]

My opinion ,
Solid maple shafts , old growth straight grained, dried or cured for a few years
25 growth rings per inch conical taper un capped micarta ferrule 12.5 mm tip
Triangle kamui sniper or ultra skin moori makes no diference I can play with them all .

What is considered an old growth shaft? I have a couple of original D series McDermott shafts from the early to mid 80s, are these considered old growth? I am assuming these were from trees harvested in the 70s.

 

[CJ Wiley]

TOI simply opens up a dimension in the Game that has been there all along.

I don't think about LD shafts at all. If you understand it, then deflection is your best friend

That's right, most players are just aware of about 20% of the "Inside" knowledge. A champion player can do more with the Inside part of the cue-ball than all other parts combined.

TOI simply opens up a dimension in the Game that has been there all along....although, invisible to the untrained eye. www.thegameistheteacher.com