made in china

Tbeaux said:
Weeell yankee boy just what do you mean...you got something against the south? The bible belt? Alabama?
Click to expand...

Okay please calm down. I'm sorry for offending you, that was not my intention.

I was thinking of situations analogous to Don's immigrant worker Danny, and the gay man living in bible country popped into my head, my point being that a gay man living in, say, SanFran or NYC will be more accepted and hence form a more favorable opinion of his life in America, versus a gay man growing up in a highly religious (christian) area of the country (hence my reference to the Bible belt, Alabama being inside it I believe).

Again, I'm sorry for being insensitive. I'm not listening to my own preaching, and that is always a no no...

-Roger
 
Some people think the companies that setup factories in China, Phillipines, Vietname, and etc are there only to "exploit" the low wages. That's not completely true and quite misleading and naieve. It is true that these companies get to hire much cheaper labor, as compared to an american/canadian. It is true that these companies get to sell the goods at a higher margin because of the lowered manufacturing cost. That doesn't make them all exploiters. Without the companies hiring, the same worker in those countries might not be able to find another job that pay them a salary that they wouldn't otherwise get if they were working on a farm, at a low paying government job, or some other jobs. In most cases the workers are happy and are fighting (not literally) for these jobs. There are always unethical companies that are abusing the workers, but those cases happen everywhere in the world and are in the minority.

A lot of people have a problem with companies paying substantially lower wages somewhere else. But if you think about it logically, the pay they offer must coincide with the market value of the workers there. The unemployed population in many of those countries are high. An over supplied workforce will mean lowered wages, it has nothing to do with the productivity level of the workers. If the US suddenly has 100 times the number of top-notch software developers, the amount of pay for them will decrease as well.

The economy is now global, if you can't live with it, you might need to start being a hermit.

This is getting really off topic. Lucasis' are very decent cues for the amount of money you're paying. If you don't like it, sell it, just don't expect to get more than 50% of what you paid for it, because its a production cue.
 
Asian cues...

Adam-Buffalo is a company who have all there cues made in asia...
Falcon aswell...

Did you know that all the Predator butts are made by Falcon? Just asian production cues...

We pay a fortune for cues which only cost a few bucks...

As a custom cuemaker, I hate to see that Predator dares to call their cues custom cues....

When I spoke to the owner of Predator here in the Netherlands at the last Mosconi Cup, Alan admitted never to have made a cue. It's all being made in Asia...

And because China has a trading agreement with Japan, the costs of sending over the cues to japan is $0.00
Japan has the same agreement with Canada, so $0.00 again to get the cues there...
And finally, the same between Canada and USA.

So when Predator claims to have their cues made in Canada by Falcon, i just laugh...

Very simple example: how is it possible to sell a cue to a customer in the USA for $400, taxe included, though the material costs are just over $80.
The seller wants at least 35% profit and so do Predator (that's 70%)
$400 minus $80 is $320. Minus 70% is about $96. Than you have the cost of the company, insurance and salaries (about 15% of the cue).

How can Predator claim to have made a Custom cue in Canada for only $80???

Dream on... Those companies just fool you.

But people sometimes want to be fooled....

So make up your own opinion.

Still wondering now why GENUINE custom made cues cost at least $1000???

Tom Penrose

Penrose Cues
Custom made cues and cue repairs
www.penrosecues.com
tel: +31 22 866 525
 
turquoisecrazy said:
You have no idea what you are talking about man...This guy Danny is probably not legit to work. Are you hiring illegal labor? Legit Chinese can go back to China any time.

I was born and raised in China. I am living in LA now. I went to China for Chinese new year last month. I just come back. No jail, no fine, no nothing. Did not see no baby on cold street either.

You do not know what China is like now. It is not like most people are poor and only 2% have food. Big cities in China is more beautiful than most cities I have visited here. Lots of BMW and Benz in China now. We do not make $5 a day anymore. That is only for the very poor and uneducated people in the villages, even they make more than that these days.

You hate Chinese product? why don't you wrack your computer now. We Chinese made that CPU, man. We made all the cell phones for Japan and the US, you should throw your phone away now. What about your TV, your DVD player...

Microsoft also hire programmers in China cos these are smart and hard working people, man, not some guy like you who don't know what he is talking about.

If you don't know what you are talking about, why don't you find out before you speak? You are talking like a fool, man. Only fools will think he knows what a country with 10 billion people live like after talking to one 27 years old illegal immigrant Danny.

We Chinese read your post and we laugh, we laugh at how stupid you are. You make America shameful, man.

You try to say we are poor? I bought two houses when I moved to LA, my realtor was shocked. I am richer than most of the people here. What do you own? How dare you judging us and calling us poor, you are a racist, and a very stupid one. I bet you never set foot in Asia.

Narrow minded people like you make Americans look bad. Think about it.
Click to expand...

Turquoisecrazy, what I have posted was told to me by a guy from China. I also have a friend who visited a Chinese cue factory about 3 months ago. I didn't mean to offend you or your people. For that I sincerely apologize. Like I said before, the chicken thing was a joke, perhaps a poor one. I am happy that you are one of the fortunate ones, however, that makes you the exception, not the rule. I really like what one guy posted here.
I like communisim but people are to lazy to make it work.
I like capitalism but people are to greedy to make it work.
I hope that one day, you share some of your riches with your impoverished countryman. I also hope that one day, your society is free.
Bye the way, thanks for all the compliments. You are one angry person.
Don P.
All I have done is touch one of your old wounds, hence, your responce.
 
SplicedPoints said:
The majority (if not all) the cues made in China are from companies owned by Taiwanese. Pool is not that big in China, so I doubt there is any custom cuemakers in China. I've mixed feelings about Lucasis. I've had 3 of them. The j/b cue is great, especially with a phenolic tip. The other types of cues might have some suspect building techniques. For example, I had a lucasi that was suppose to have a ebony buttsleeve. One day I accidentally dinged the buttsleeve rather heavily. To my surprise, the buttsleeve "ebony" was just a decal and the inlays are also just decals. I don't know if that's the case with the rest of their products. The 3rd lucasi cue was not bad, solidly built and very good for the price I paid for it.
Click to expand...

I think you are right. In fact, most taiwanese companies have moved their factories to China.

It's a very ridiculous idea that "MADE-IN-CHINA" means inferior goods. For example, 75% notebooks are produced by taiwanse, and their factories are most in china. No matter USA (ex.DELL, HP, APPLE, IBM), JAPAN (ex.Sony,NEC), TAIWAN (ex.ACER, Ben-Q) or CHINA (ex.Lenovo) brands are all made by the same manufacturers, but people always think IBM means high quality, CHINA brand means low-quality. It's indeed a bias.
 
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liany1003 said:
I think you are right. In fact, most taiwanese companies have moved their factories to China.

It's a very ridiculous idea that "MADE-IN-CHINA" means inferior goods. For example, 75% notebooks are produced by taiwanse, and their factories are most in china. No matter USA (ex.DELL, HP, APPLE, IBM), JAPAN (ex.Sony,NEC), TAIWAN (ex.ACER, Ben-Q) or CHINA (ex.Lenovo) brands are all made by the same manufacturers, but people always think IBM means high quality, CHINA brand means low-quality. It's indeed a bias.
Click to expand...

And how true it is though. What movie said "Russian technology, American technology....ALL PARTS MADE IN CHINA"? It's interesting to see how the majority of these companies get their parts from Asia(in general).
 
jazzn4444 said:
And how true it is though. What movie said "Russian technology, American technology....ALL PARTS MADE IN CHINA"? It's interesting to see how the majority of these companies get their parts from Asia(in general).
Click to expand...

What is a cowbell? ;)
 
Donald A. Purdy said:
Turquoisecrazy, what I have posted was told to me by a guy from China. I also have a friend who visited a Chinese cue factory about 3 months ago. I didn't mean to offend you or your people. For that I sincerely apologize.

Apology accepted


Like I said before, the chicken thing was a joke, perhaps a poor one.

It was done in bad taste.I am happy that you are one of the fortunate ones, however, that makes you the exception, not the rule.

I am not the exception. You have no idea once again what you are talking about.I really like what one guy posted here.
I like communisim but people are to lazy to make it work.
I like capitalism but people are to greedy to make it work.

So, you like communism now... :confused: what the heck are you talking about? You were just dismissing everythign about China a few posts ago.I hope that one day, you share some of your riches with your impoverished countryman.

Again, you have no idea what you are talking about.I also hope that one day, your society is free.

I hope one day you will become as smart as an average person in China. BY society, are you talking about the US, or China? I am living in the US now and it is my society. Without people like you who always jump to conclusion, we will be freer for sure.

Bye the way, thanks for all the compliments. You are one angry person.

I am very anger at your comments and your attitude. Thanks for your reponse, you are one heck of an idoit.
All I have done is touch one of your old wounds, hence, your responce.

What triggered your post on the chicken thing at first, did someone touched your wound? May be you buy cheap cue from China and sell them as custom cues in the US. Better yet, judging from your intelligence, you may not even know the difference.

Never mind...go back to your corner and keep on barking....
Click to expand...
 
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Hey Richie man

nipponbilliards said:
With all due respect, Donald, you should have read my post carefully before trying to attack me without the proper facts. I never said you were insulting anything or anyone. It is not me who is putting words into another person's mouth. My post was not even addressed to you.

I never call you ignorant and stupid, you somehow identified with that "stupid and ignorant" comment I made in my post, which was actually about how I would feel if I were to insult an ethnic group without any porper knowledge and facts.

It is very subjective as to whether something you said is insulting, here is your post. Let's read it again.

.......................................................................................................
General Tso's Chicken

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

That's the only thing I like about China. I have a 27 yr. old Chinese young man working for me right now. He has told me about home life. Fined $6,000 if you have more than one kid. Only making $5 a day for 12 hrs of work. Leaving new borns on the cold streets because if you take it home and get caught with it, fined again. It cost him $60,000 to get here. Worked like a slave to pay it back. If he goes home, jail and fine. Most of the population are poor. I wouldn't buy a Chinese product for all the tea in _______. Screwed up country and screwed up government. You want to know what China is like, ask my friend Danny here.
Purdman
...................................................................................................

The above quoted comment is not about the policies and government, it is a false and extremely negative depiction of life in China based on biased and out-dated information presented in an illogical manner with unfounded data. And it is implying to all the readers that the existance of each and every Chinese in China means nothing to the speaker more than what this general whatever chicken is worth to him.

How would you feel if I say to you that I hate everything in the US except the burger; none of you is worth more to me than a $2 burger; the US is nothing but a screwed up country. Would you call that a regular comment on policies and government? Or would you call that an insult to you, and your country?

Richard
Click to expand...


Hey Richard

How could u stay so clam and cool with this guy. He ain't going to appreciate it, man.

He not able to see what u r saying. yo too logical, too business...yoo talk like a lawyer...too well educated for donald duck...

Donald Duck has no ball to response to yoo posting anyway. Yo have to talk to him at his level or he aint going to apology to u like he did to me.

Yo too civilized, too civilized....
 
Wasn't this thread about a Lucasi cue with a tag that said, "Made in China" on it? Hondo, tell us how the cue hits and then close this damn thread!!
 
Rickw said:
Wasn't this thread about a Lucasi cue with a tag that said, "Made in China" on it? Hondo, tell us how the cue hits and then close this damn thread!!
Click to expand...

Yes, I would second that. Thank you.

So long everyone.
 
when I joined the International Cuemakers Association (ICA), it was to find/learn information from its members,,,I had never done any chat rooms/forums before that time, now I remember why,,,this thread shows me again why the forum of the ICA is for members only. Most of this idle banter would not have been allowed and 'buddha162', 'nippon billiards', and "turquoisecrazy' would have been suspended (if they could have been members in the first place) immediately !

my advice to those who find something racist/demeaning in almost everything they read is "GET OVER IT",,,all, and I do mean ALL, ethnic groups need to get their heads out of their a___'s and take an unbiased look at what they see,,,the world's not all good and it's certainly not all bad, BUT there is good, bad and varying other degrees in all humans,,,GeraldG spoke the absolute truth, IMHO, and Big Jon gave us the example by which most of the world views China (Tiananmen Square, 1989),,,buddha started the non-related comments, nipponbilliards (the Japanese and Chinese have for centuries been at each other's throat) suddenly is incensed by what he percieves as negative words against the Chinese ??,,, then outta tha' blue turquoisecrazy jumps in the fray, to brag about his two houses and his $$$$....time for a commercial break, this episode of "Looney Toons' is brought to you today by "Prozac',,,remember ladies and gentlemen, 'Prozac' takes the anxiety out of being inferior in the worlds eyes,,,one little pill a day stops those negative stereotypical thoughts and ourbursts,,,

the question/statement was about a Lucasi cue, wasn't it ?? then the other stuff was a load of crap that wasn't needed,,,negative ranting only brings on more of the same !
We all want our children to grow up in a better world,,, so, breathe in, breathe out,,,stop the anger, go hug your kids, tell them you love them, take your 'Prozac' and tomorrow the world will be a better place :) :) :)
 
and I do mean ALL, ethnic groups need to get their heads out of their a___

Uh what do you mean by ethnic groups? The 3 you picked out were Asians. Are you talking about us people of color? That we see racism and call it how we see it? Or are you talking about the Irish, The Polish, The Italians, etc too who dont like their country and culture bashed about on some hearsay. Dont you think we can get offended too. When you hear the French talk crap about our country doesnt it piss YOU off??? Dont we have that same right even if it threatens your hegemony.

Reminds me of when George Wallace used to say "our negroes are good negroes who dont want civil rights." You would rather us "negroes" just talk about the weather and the good ole sunny south? Sorry it aint gonna happen. People say stupid things they are going to get called on it.

I too did not want to be embroiled on this issue and try to turn it into a positive one about the pool experience I had in China. Until someone tells us "ethnics" how to behave. I think there is potential in the China market and pool becoming recreational sport. Think Yao Ming and Basketball now in China. Communist or not some great players can come from China and it also can be a market for American cues. I just think it takes time and tolerance.
 
Jack Flanagan said:
when I joined the International Cuemakers Association (ICA), it was to find/learn information from its members,,,I had never done any chat rooms/forums before that time, now I remember why,,,this thread shows me again why the forum of the ICA is for members only. Most of this idle banter would not have been allowed and 'buddha162', 'nippon billiards', and "turquoisecrazy' would have been suspended (if they could have been members in the first place) immediately !

my advice to those who find something racist/demeaning in almost everything they read is "GET OVER IT",,,all, and I do mean ALL, ethnic groups need to get their heads out of their a___'s and take an unbiased look at what they see,,,the world's not all good and it's certainly not all bad, BUT there is good, bad and varying other degrees in all humans,,,GeraldG spoke the absolute truth, IMHO, and Big Jon gave us the example by which most of the world views China (Tiananmen Square, 1989),,,buddha started the non-related comments, nipponbilliards (the Japanese and Chinese have for centuries been at each other's throat) suddenly is incensed by what he percieves as negative words against the Chinese ??,,, then outta tha' blue turquoisecrazy jumps in the fray, to brag about his two houses and his $$$$....time for a commercial break, this episode of "Looney Toons' is brought to you today by "Prozac',,,remember ladies and gentlemen, 'Prozac' takes the anxiety out of being inferior in the worlds eyes,,,one little pill a day stops those negative stereotypical thoughts and ourbursts,,,

the question/statement was about a Lucasi cue, wasn't it ?? then the other stuff was a load of crap that wasn't needed,,,negative ranting only brings on more of the same !
We all want our children to grow up in a better world,,, so, breathe in, breathe out,,,stop the anger, go hug your kids, tell them you love them, take your 'Prozac' and tomorrow the world will be a better place :) :) :)
Click to expand...

You do not have to agree with me, but you cannot take away my right of expressing my point of view; you do not have to even listen to me, but you cannot take away the rights of those who may want to.

You may not see the point(s) of my posts, but that is not to say that they are a "load of crap"; you may not see the connection(s) between my posts and the original thread, but that is not to say that there is no connection.

You may look at China in terms of what happened more than a decade ago, but that is not to say that most of the world do. You may not see why I commented on a post as being racist, but that is not to say that I "find something racist/demeaning in almost everything read."

That is why in a civilized and democratic country, we talk about freedom of speech and we do not sanction freedom of press; that is why I never at any time told anyone to "get over it"--because I respect their opinion and see their rights of expressing their ideas just as important as my right of expressing different ideas of mine.

You may think Budda started the mess, but that is not to say that someone may not think, for example, Donald was the one who did; that is why it is important to let everyone participate so each and every one of us are given an equal opportunity to draw our own conclusion--rather than a conclusion drawn based on only a selected number of participants through a suspension procedure.

Press sanction is what the West has long been critizing China for, it confuses me to hear someone from the US suggesting a suspension to posters whose view he cannot agree.

My point of view is that "made in China" is independent of the quality of the product. Something made in China may be inferior; but it is not to say that all products made in China are inferior. In my opinion, to say one is disappointed once one sees a "made in China" sign on a cue before even trying the cue out is a racist sterotype.

I could not help to see that a lot of posters here do not have an accurate idea of what China is like right now, and I was offended by a post which depicted China in a very negative fashion. I believe these misconceptions of China may have partially contributed to the fact that some people would relate poor quality to "made in China." Therefore, I took it upon myself, which I probably shouldn't have, to try and clarify the situation. I believe Gerald, Budda, and a few others were posting with a similiar objective in mind. To me, my post is therefore not irrelevent. Unfortunately, this thread has developed to the point whereas I think it is best that I just stay out of it. Perhaps I should thank you for given me this chance to further clarify my point of view.

I am not too sure about the moderator policy here in this forum. I do believe that like other forums, it discourages people from using aggresive language to insult others. I know that in some forums, racist attack(s) on a targeted ethnic group will be taken out as well. I have not yet been to a forum whereas someone with a different point of view than Jack Flanagan will be suspended.

If you do not enjoy reading this, you are more than welcome to leave. Again, just because you fail to learn something from reading these posts does not mean that you can take away the right of those who may find these posts very informative and interesting to read.

I like constructive discussion, and I enjoy seeing different point of view. It helps me to understand people more.

Thank you.

Richard
 
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yobagua said:
I just think it takes time and tolerance.
Click to expand...

I think that this is the probably the most important thing said in this entire discussion.

I've travelled to a lot of different parts of the world in my life. Some trips were under good circumstances and some weren't so good (another discussion entirely). Some were to developed nations, others to 3rd world nations. On every trip, I've made it a point to get out amongst the people and try to learn something about them and their culture. Here's what I've found: People are people. Simple as that. Cultures differ, food differs, physical appearances differ, economic status differs...but we all have the same needs, emotions, dreams, desires, and the same basic tenet for living life.

The fact that a particular country has a bad government says absolutely nothing about the people of that country. The products that are produced in any country are produced by the people, not the government. The government may have it's fingers in the businesses, but it's the people that produce the goods. You can find high quality products and low quality products from each and every one of them, including the good ol' U.S. of A.

The fact that we are seeing this kind of discord over a thread about cues made in China tells me that we still have a lot of work to do...on ourselves.
 
amazing !...made my point, guess some are so prejudiced, they can't see a point when it's offered,,,don't assume to know my ethnic origin because of my name,,,can't you see your own stereotypical bs coming out in most of your posts to this thread,,,didn't say anything to offend, but you got offended anyway,,,too many of all races, creeds, and national origins are quick to judge without knowing who they are judging,,,simple thread about a quality, moderately priced cue soon became a forum for bashing other races,,,I stand by any and all my former statements,,,get a life and stop the griping,,
goodnight to all, open your eyes and see what you are saying (may have to open your mind a little, too)
 
I see where you're comming from Jack, and I also understand why the discussion got started in the first place. The original post of the thread was from a guy who purchased a Lucasi cue and was disappointed because it was made in China. I didn't go back to read the rest of his posts, but it would seem the guy was disappointed because he some how might have equated the "made in China" tag with a low quality cue. Considering a lot of low quality cues (cues that cost 50 bucks or so) are made in China, he might have a concern about the quality, but he gave no mention of whether or not he actually tried the cue out and evaluated the quality of the cue beyond the manufacturer's tag. That's the misconception that warrants correcting. Where a cue's made doesn't absolutely equate to the quality of the cue. Take Meucci for example: 100% American made, and pretty much 100% bad quality in the eyes of most serious collectors and cue afficiandos. I've had both Meuccis and lucasis and I can honestly say Lucasi does a better job with their cues.

Buddha and NipponBilliards had their rights to their posts. Someone made posts with a rather extremely biased description of China. Granted those descriptions may partly be true, but they don't paint the whole picture of the country. Buddha, NiponBilliards, and Turquoise were only clearing up some misconceptions that were presented in those posts, so they had every right to do so. Put yourself in other people's shoes and try to see things from different perspectives. Suppose Jack's browsing an European website about automobiles and come across a topic that 1) equates American made cars with poor quality(even though it might be true for some cars) 2) paints a rather biased picture of the US from someone who had listened to some horror story of how his friend escaped from the (excuse the bad stereotype) "redneck lunatics who like nothing but trucks, mud wrestling, beer, and guns". Would Jack have the compulsion to make a post to show how the US is really like?
 
my point exactly,,,I don't play the race/ethnic card when I hear someone put down anyone in the USA,,,unfortunately some groups cry foul everytime the truth is printed or spoken on the news,,,(or this forum),,,been there, "seen" that,,,Taught many years, had many exchange students in my classes & it's amazing how much misinformation these closed societies fill their populace with,,,makes me sad, knowing there is nothing I can do about it, then people who have 'made' it out of that world want to remember the 'good old times' & forget about the truth when they read it, some for the fear of reprisal if someone there might find out the real 'truth' has been told,,,after all, there may be relatives who may suffer the consequences if they speak out !!...redneck lunatics,,,I know some,,,,bad cars from Detroit,,,bought some,,,and I'M NOT AFRAID TO TALK ABOUTTHEM...glad to live in the USA where I can talk about them without fear of prison time....folks from the 3rd world countries need to rise up and be heard, damn the consequences, then they might be free from the oppression,,,'nuff said !!!
 
nipponbilliards said:
You do not have to agree with me, but you cannot take away my right of expressing my point of view; you do not have to even listen to me, but you cannot take away the rights of those who may want to.

You may not see the point(s) of my posts, but that is not to say that they are a "load of crap"; you may not see the connection(s) between my posts and the original thread, but that is not to say that there is no connection.

You may look at China in terms of what happened more than a decade ago, but that is not to say that most of the world do. You may not see why I commented on a post as being racist, but that is not to say that I "find something racist/demeaning in almost everything read."

That is why in a civilized and democratic country, we talk about freedom of speech and we do not sanction freedom of press; that is why I never at any time told anyone to "get over it"--because I respect their opinion and see their rights of expressing their ideas just as important as my right of expressing different ideas of mine.

You may think Budda started the mess, but that is not to say that someone may not think, for example, Donald was the one who did; that is why it is important to let everyone participate so each and every one of us are given an equal opportunity to draw our own conclusion--rather than a conclusion drawn based on only a selected number of participants through a suspension procedure.

Press sanction is what the West has long been critizing China for, it confuses me to hear someone from the US suggesting a suspension to posters whose view he cannot agree.

My point of view is that "made in China" is independent of the quality of the product. Something made in China may be inferior; but it is not to say that all products made in China are inferior. In my opinion, to say one is disappointed once one sees a "made in China" sign on a cue before even trying the cue out is a racist sterotype.

I could not help to see that a lot of posters here do not have an accurate idea of what China is like right now, and I was offended by a post which depicted China in a very negative fashion. I believe these misconceptions of China may have partially contributed to the fact that some people would relate poor quality to "made in China." Therefore, I took it upon myself, which I probably shouldn't have, to try and clarify the situation. I believe Gerald, Budda, and a few others were posting with a similiar objective in mind. To me, my post is therefore not irrelevent. Unfortunately, this thread has developed to the point whereas I think it is best that I just stay out of it. Perhaps I should thank you for given me this chance to further clarify my point of view.

I am not too sure about the moderator policy here in this forum. I do believe that like other forums, it discourages people from using aggresive language to insult others. I know that in some forums, racist attack(s) on a targeted ethnic group will be taken out as well. I have not yet been to a forum whereas someone with a different point of view than Jack Flanagan will be suspended.

If you do not enjoy reading this, you are more than welcome to leave. Again, just because you fail to learn something from reading these posts does not mean that you can take away the right of those who may find these posts very informative and interesting to read.

I like constructive discussion, and I enjoy seeing different point of view. It helps me to understand people more.

Thank you.

Richard
Click to expand...


Richard,

I could never, not in a million years, come up with such a measured response to Jack's post. Hats off to you...

-Roger
 
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