"Madison" Bob Griffin Failure to honor his commitments to a client
- Thread starter snowmon34
- Start date
GoTulane
Shizzle-rific
Sorry to here about this.
Dale has been a great person to talk to on AZB, and I believe I am not the only one who can say that he is an honest AZB'r, and that their deals with him have always been great and been exactly as expected - if not better.
Sorry to see you having a problem with Madison Bob. You would think he would honor his commitments, but sometimes people get in a jam, and are embarrassed about admitting their failures or their inability to do something they had promised. It is a sad thing to see, especially to an honest person like yourself. I understand it isn't about the $$ or the time, it is just wanting the commitment to come through that you had discussed and held up your side. There are always 2 sides to every story, but knowing Dale and his character, I wouldn't be surprised if we never hear from BOB.
And to anybody who would say it is ONLY $525, not a big deal, I will post my Paypal address for you to deposit $525 immediately, since you wouldn't miss it. Yes, it isn't the college fund - but that is not the point. We are a community of cuemakers (Newbees & old-timers), cue buyers, cue sellers, cue collectors, cue flippers, and those stylin' cue pimps - and we have to make sure to look out for each other. Otherwise we would just be Ebay.
Dale - Once again I hope everything works out to your satisfaction.
Michael
Dale has been a great person to talk to on AZB, and I believe I am not the only one who can say that he is an honest AZB'r, and that their deals with him have always been great and been exactly as expected - if not better.
Sorry to see you having a problem with Madison Bob. You would think he would honor his commitments, but sometimes people get in a jam, and are embarrassed about admitting their failures or their inability to do something they had promised. It is a sad thing to see, especially to an honest person like yourself. I understand it isn't about the $$ or the time, it is just wanting the commitment to come through that you had discussed and held up your side. There are always 2 sides to every story, but knowing Dale and his character, I wouldn't be surprised if we never hear from BOB.
And to anybody who would say it is ONLY $525, not a big deal, I will post my Paypal address for you to deposit $525 immediately, since you wouldn't miss it. Yes, it isn't the college fund - but that is not the point. We are a community of cuemakers (Newbees & old-timers), cue buyers, cue sellers, cue collectors, cue flippers, and those stylin' cue pimps - and we have to make sure to look out for each other. Otherwise we would just be Ebay.
Dale - Once again I hope everything works out to your satisfaction.
Michael
Well, here is his response to you entitled: Madisonbob Untrusting Client Snowmon34
It's very hard to read the way it was typed up, but he did respond. It looks as if he just wants to resolve this. Maybe someone trusted here on AZ can mediate this situation so you can both come to a resolution.
It's very hard to read the way it was typed up, but he did respond. It looks as if he just wants to resolve this. Maybe someone trusted here on AZ can mediate this situation so you can both come to a resolution.
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Well, I have read both sides of the story and everything seems crystal clear to me, and I believe a court would also have no problem seeing things the same way. More of the story in the threads below.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=90423
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=90524
First Mr Griffin, you agreed to $1050 as the final price, with $525 down. He would not have sent you the large sum of $525 and shortchanged you by a whopping sum of $37.50. It just doesn't make sense. And you say he was supposed to send $562.50 but you did not mention it to him until 8 months later? Again, it just does not make sense. If the correct amount was $562.50 but you were going to go ahead and accept the $525 as downpayment, you would at least mentioned it to him that he had failed to send the full half and that the remaining balance would be higher. You did not do that because he sent you the agreed to correct amount to begin with.
Second, by your own words Mr Griffin, you told him 2-6 months for completion. It has been 8 months. "Cuemaker time" is great if the customer is willing to accept it, but if not you need to honor the deal in the timeframe that was estimated or give him his money back if requested. The courts see it the same way. I have on videotape the Peoples Court episode where a cuemaker was sued for this exact same thing, taking longer to complete the cues than the customer was told. The cuemaker used "cuemakers time" as a defense. He lost. The court ruled that there is no excuse for not delivering the cue/s at or at least close to the time frame that was estimated. It does not matter what the reasons are for the delay, health or otherwise. Yes that sucks for you, but ultimately it is NOT THE CUSTOMERS PROBLEM and it is not right to make him pay for YOUR problem.
Third, after the 6 months came and went he was doing you a favor by only asking for pictures to be sent as proof the cues were done. He could have rightfully just asked for his money back then but he stuck with you for several more months. You should have bent over backwords to accomodate him, because he was more than patient with you when you failed to honor you side of the bargain.
Fourth, you should be offering him a discount, not trying to weasel more money from him. You dropped the ball, and even if the reason was beyond your control, it certainly was not the customers fault.
Fifth, you keep saying that you do not give deposits back. That is only legal if you live up to your end of the bargain, including the delivery time. You cannot keep someones deposit if you never finish the cue, or if you finish it much after the time which was promised. He has every right to ask for and to get his money back.
Sixth, you feel that he should be paying you a commission for your trouble in having to sell the cues so that you can give him his money back after you failed to meet the delivery deadline by several months. Are you kidding me? Refer back to point number 4.
Seventh, you keep talking about how you have worked so hard to build your reputation over 15 years, but you sure seem willing to throw it away very quickly by the way that you have chosen to handle the situation. Count me in as someone that will not be doing any business with you, and I am sure that I am not the only one.
Mr Griffin, give the man back his money, and immediately, if that is what he wants at this point. If he is willing to work out another agreement, it is you, not him, that should be bending over backwards to make the necessary concessions.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=90423
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=90524
First Mr Griffin, you agreed to $1050 as the final price, with $525 down. He would not have sent you the large sum of $525 and shortchanged you by a whopping sum of $37.50. It just doesn't make sense. And you say he was supposed to send $562.50 but you did not mention it to him until 8 months later? Again, it just does not make sense. If the correct amount was $562.50 but you were going to go ahead and accept the $525 as downpayment, you would at least mentioned it to him that he had failed to send the full half and that the remaining balance would be higher. You did not do that because he sent you the agreed to correct amount to begin with.
Second, by your own words Mr Griffin, you told him 2-6 months for completion. It has been 8 months. "Cuemaker time" is great if the customer is willing to accept it, but if not you need to honor the deal in the timeframe that was estimated or give him his money back if requested. The courts see it the same way. I have on videotape the Peoples Court episode where a cuemaker was sued for this exact same thing, taking longer to complete the cues than the customer was told. The cuemaker used "cuemakers time" as a defense. He lost. The court ruled that there is no excuse for not delivering the cue/s at or at least close to the time frame that was estimated. It does not matter what the reasons are for the delay, health or otherwise. Yes that sucks for you, but ultimately it is NOT THE CUSTOMERS PROBLEM and it is not right to make him pay for YOUR problem.
Third, after the 6 months came and went he was doing you a favor by only asking for pictures to be sent as proof the cues were done. He could have rightfully just asked for his money back then but he stuck with you for several more months. You should have bent over backwords to accomodate him, because he was more than patient with you when you failed to honor you side of the bargain.
Fourth, you should be offering him a discount, not trying to weasel more money from him. You dropped the ball, and even if the reason was beyond your control, it certainly was not the customers fault.
Fifth, you keep saying that you do not give deposits back. That is only legal if you live up to your end of the bargain, including the delivery time. You cannot keep someones deposit if you never finish the cue, or if you finish it much after the time which was promised. He has every right to ask for and to get his money back.
Sixth, you feel that he should be paying you a commission for your trouble in having to sell the cues so that you can give him his money back after you failed to meet the delivery deadline by several months. Are you kidding me? Refer back to point number 4.
Seventh, you keep talking about how you have worked so hard to build your reputation over 15 years, but you sure seem willing to throw it away very quickly by the way that you have chosen to handle the situation. Count me in as someone that will not be doing any business with you, and I am sure that I am not the only one.
Mr Griffin, give the man back his money, and immediately, if that is what he wants at this point. If he is willing to work out another agreement, it is you, not him, that should be bending over backwards to make the necessary concessions.
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poolplaya9
WOW...Now that is well said..Bob..Just Pay the Man..(cue or cash)..Don
WOW...Now that is well said..Bob..Just Pay the Man..(cue or cash)..Don
Poolplaya9 said:
Poolplaya9 has nailed it.....when Bob requested 50% down I should of asked for a purchase agreement, but I didn't because I trusted him (my fault). I sent the check with no problems....I would never jeopardize the 525.00 down payment I sent to Bob by trying swindle him out of 75.00 in the end.....that makes absolutely no sense at all.....send the man 525.00 and try to screw him for 75.00.....I would have to be an absolute MORON to risk my down for such a small return, and yes you guys are correct the amount of the down payment is a new born issue....
Thanks Dale
I would not pay the guy one penny more than the agreed upon price when you sent the first payment. I know it's not much more and you may be willing to do it just to attempt to get your cues but I wouldn't give him a penny more. Honestly, If I didn't feel I could make a profit off these cues for what you have in them I would just request a refund. At this point I would not want to play or represent his cues after this. I would just say refund my money and take a hike. Best of luck in your future dealings.
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Beating a dead horse.......
........does not reflect well for your business. Grinding the axe you have against MB doesn't help you or Snowmon.brianna187 said:
Kickin' a man while he's down is a bad karma waiting to happen.hangemhigh said:
I'm Happy to get a response from MB
BTW You seem to be taking all of this rather personally. Is it in part because he denies your claim of selling "All" of is equipment? Just wondering.
I guess these threads his woke those guys up at the Griffin shop
Whatever the reason, I'm happy to say that I got a pm from Bob yesterday. After his pm I decided that perhaps I was a bit out of line. I assumed that they received my info but just didn't respond. Now it appears they possibly never received it. I have no way of knowing so I will give them the benefit of the doubt. I will not assume they are in the wrong since I don't really know. I know it has nothing to do with the "sneaky" problem, other than being the same cue maker.
However, it does not appear as if Bob has emptied his shop and they seem to be taking on business. It's a good thing he makes a great cue otherwise he could be in more of a pickle with his reputation regarding the "sneaky" issue(s)
IMHO
brianna187 said:
BTW You seem to be taking all of this rather personally. Is it in part because he denies your claim of selling "All" of is equipment? Just wondering.
I guess these threads his woke those guys up at the Griffin shop
Whatever the reason, I'm happy to say that I got a pm from Bob yesterday. After his pm I decided that perhaps I was a bit out of line. I assumed that they received my info but just didn't respond. Now it appears they possibly never received it. I have no way of knowing so I will give them the benefit of the doubt. I will not assume they are in the wrong since I don't really know. I know it has nothing to do with the "sneaky" problem, other than being the same cue maker.
However, it does not appear as if Bob has emptied his shop and they seem to be taking on business. It's a good thing he makes a great cue otherwise he could be in more of a pickle with his reputation regarding the "sneaky" issue(s)
IMHO
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