Magic Bullets and Dead Horses

you guys are funny...arguing about whether low deflection is the magic bullet. both sides have a point, but i think softshot has no idea how LD is suppose to help.

i believe that practice IS the key to getting better. however, having a LD shaft will speed up the learning curve because you can just aim and shoot (for the most part) without worrying about how deflection will affect the shot.

comparing LD shafts and regular shafts are like apples and oranges. once you adjust to one or the other, the game is basically the same. i have used both types of shafts, and the adjustment period of each shaft was roughly the same, but with the LD shaft, it is easier to just aim and not have to worry too much about how much the cue ball will swerve. the shaft basically took out a big element of physics in pool and allowed beginners to learn faster by being able to control the cueball.
 
also, i'd like to see the softshot vs rossaroni match.

ross- are you ross k??

and who the hee haw is softshot??
 
thomba02 said:
you guys are funny...arguing about whether low deflection is the magic bullet. both sides have a point, but i think softshot has no idea how LD is suppose to help.
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Wonder how Willie hoppie was able to play so well with NO HI TECH Cues?:eek:
 
well . . .

Both sides have some merit but I can tell y'all about one player. When he first started playing pool, he played pool! Crappy sticks, house cues, Sears and Roebuck eight foot table at home, sevens, eights, super eights, nines, snooker tables, he shot on them all. He didn't know anything but he hit balls fifty to eighty hours a week for years. No books, no video's, no internet, no layered tips or magic shafts, no real instruction or coaching, no gambling large enough to matter either way, he just hated to lose. After a few years of this he was a legitimate shortstop, it was possible for him to beat anyone that set foot on his home turf, not guaranteed but definitely always possible.

He quit pool for over twenty years. When he came back he came back with a decent cue, layered tips, books, video's, the internet, and nearly the same desire. Never again quite the same desire as he had as a teenager, he has never felt that same desire since his early twenties, and not nearly the hours to put into pool. While he occasionally shows flashes of speed now he is little more than a banger staying around 50% of his best speed.

I am a believer in perfect practice makes perfect. I also believe that a certain minimum level of equipment is necessary to play the game well. I also believe that after that some equipment can speed up the learning curve, it can't make you a better player than you would have been if you put in the hours with any equipment. One of the players I beat for a few hours until he plain quit on me since he hadn't seen one of his balls for over an hour and didn't seem likely to that night is considered by more than a few on here to be the best player ever. He came in with a stick with a hinge in it, I beat him with a cue off the wall. Of course it was one of the handful of crappy house cues in that place that I had been playing with every night for a year or more.

Although either is a threat, I am much more cautious taking on someone that pulls an old cue and shaft that are obviously well cared for out of a case than someone that has all the latest whizbang toys.

Hu
 
Theres no doubt that practicing makes a huge difference, but there is a right way and a wrong way to practice IMO. Equipment does make a big difference also...take a look at the jump cues of today for instance. Anyone can learn to jump a ball in 30 mins with todays jump cues, but many could never make a legal jump using their shooting cue.

Southpaw
 
Depends on the practice . . .

I agree that practice is the most important factor in getting better, but don't entirely discount the importance of systems and equipment. If by practice we mean drills, solo play, etc., then improvement will be a function of whether our practice is ingraining good habits or bad habits. I know golfers who pound balls at the driving range, grooving a bad swing, and getting progressively worse. They should have saved the $500 on that new driver and taken a $100 lesson. Progress in pool is similar. A $100 lesson, followed by intelligent practice, will add more to your game than a $500 cue (or a $200 LD shaft).

Solo practice can improve basic skills and muscle memory, but it doesn't guarantee success in competition. Match play -- whether gambling or just a friendly game -- requires composure and heart. If those qualities don't come to you naturally, you better develop them by matching up and learning to play under pressure.

The debate over LD shafts has been beaten to death. If you think it improves your game, use one. If not, don't. There are world-beaters in both camps.
 
The points being made are good ones and if we were all in the same room and had a table to demonstrate the things that have been spoken about, then there would be a more polite dialog and much less name calling to get the point across. That said, I shoot with a Viking and I love it. I played with it for a year and became rather good with the stick. A friend comes in the poolroom, he has a 314 on his Joss or McDermott, can't remember. Anyway I asked to hit a few to see what all the hype was. I set up some of the shots that I have trouble with and made many more of them that night. So, I waited and about a month later I saw my friend again and asked to use the stick again. It was the same result, in the meantime I had been trying to make the shots with my stock shaft. I think that the tools have to be the best available as well as many hours of practice. On a sidebar, I cook for a living and buy my knives from a restaurant supply house, they sell knives at wally world, I need a better quality tool for my work. IMO, Tools and practice are the key.

Dwight
 
Integration is the key.....And that means there is no ONE quick fix.

When I learned to quit b/sing myself about the technique of the day, and honestly examined my whole shot, that is the day I started real improvement. I recognized numerous things necessary for success and started my journey on fixing those....ALL of those without contradiction.

Since then, I honestly put together (integrate) a better stroke, a better shot routine, a low deflection shaft, different tips, more books, more videos, different games, better strategies, better attitudes, more precise motivational factors, better practice systems, lessons, etc. etc.

Like the OP indicated, attempting to find one quick fix will limit one's growth in the long run; numerous things must integrate successfully for the whole picture to become clearer and better, if that makes sense.

If one could just twitch her nose and make things happen, this game would suck.

Jeff Livingston
 
spot on in my opinion

Jeff,

Your post is spot on in my opinion. The people jumping from quick fix to quick fix never stay with one thing long enough to extract maximum benefit from it. Once you realize that there isn't any gimmick or magic bullet or everyone would have it then you are ready to start making real progress. If they are using decent equipment it isn't as important what it is as it is how well they know it.

Hu



chefjeff said:
Integration is the key.....And that means there is no ONE quick fix.

When I learned to quit b/sing myself about the technique of the day, and honestly examined my whole shot, that is the day I started real improvement. I recognized numerous things necessary for success and started my journey on fixing those....ALL of those without contradiction.

Since then, I honestly put together (integrate) a better stroke, a better shot routine, a low deflection shaft, different tips, more books, more videos, different games, better strategies, better attitudes, more precise motivational factors, better practice systems, lessons, etc. etc.

Like the OP indicated, attempting to find one quick fix will limit one's growth in the long run; numerous things must integrate successfully for the whole picture to become clearer and better, if that makes sense.

If one could just twitch her nose and make things happen, this game would suck.

Jeff Livingston
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Actually some pretty good arguments both ways on this thread. This is one of the better threads on AZ in a while. Other than some small ego bruising that is the norm here as well. :smile:

I tend to agree more with softshot and ShootingArts, and Steve Mizerak too by the way. I think practice and lots of it is the key to becoming a better player. EVERY good player I ever met had a period in their life when they were OBSESSED with playing pool, and played/practiced for many hours each day.

I used to tell guys who asked me how to learn to play pool, to become obsessed by it for three years. That was my stock answer. Obsession is one step beyond normal practice. It means playing pool to the exclusion of other things. Things most of us hold dear, like a relationship, job, other hobbies, etc. All these things are barriers to obsession, so they must be done away with. And yes, most top players if questioned can tell you about such a period in their lives. Usually when they were young men living at home.

All this being said, there is no question that some innovations and devices can help your game. Certainly it is easier to jump balls with a jump cue. I'm not so sure that LD shafts are better or worse that the stock shafts that come with many custom cues though. I like a fully "integrated" cue made by the same guy. And everyone can benefit from good instruction, even pros.

But all the playing aids in the world and all the instruction will not make you a player. You must get out there and hit a million balls. Another one of my favorite pieces of advice. And now let's talk about gambling for a moment. No question it will help you play under pressure. But will it make you a better tournament player, I'm not sure. I gambled every day the first ten years I played pool, and what it did was make me a good gambler.

I only rarely played in tournaments and guess what, I didn't do too well in them. I didn't figure out why until I was nearly 50 years old. If you want to be a good tournament player, play in lots of them. You must get used to the pressure of playing tournaments which is a different animal than gambling. You won't do that playing in one or two a year, which was the norm for me back in the day when I played my best pool. Consequently, I would usually leave a tournament wondering why I didn't do any better.

To this day, I tend to gamble better that I do in tournaments, just because I'm comfortable with it. Okay speech over. :D
 
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Carl...Excellent post! BTW...the "cost" of that $100 lesson has gone up considerably, due to gas doubling and tripling in price!:thumbup:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Carl said:
I agree that practice is the most important factor in getting better, but don't entirely discount the importance of systems and equipment. If by practice we mean drills, solo play, etc., then improvement will be a function of whether our practice is ingraining good habits or bad habits. I know golfers who pound balls at the driving range, grooving a bad swing, and getting progressively worse. They should have saved the $500 on that new driver and taken a $100 lesson. Progress in pool is similar. A $100 lesson, followed by intelligent practice, will add more to your game than a $500 cue (or a $200 LD shaft).

Solo practice can improve basic skills and muscle memory, but it doesn't guarantee success in competition. Match play -- whether gambling or just a friendly game -- requires composure and heart. If those qualities don't come to you naturally, you better develop them by matching up and learning to play under pressure.

The debate over LD shafts has been beaten to death. If you think it improves your game, use one. If not, don't. There are world-beaters in both camps.
Click to expand...
 
ShootingArts said:
Jeff,

Your post is spot on in my opinion. The people jumping from quick fix to quick fix never stay with one thing long enough to extract maximum benefit from it. Once you realize that there isn't any gimmick or magic bullet or everyone would have it then you are ready to start making real progress. If they are using decent equipment it isn't as important what it is as it is how well they know it.

Hu
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Thanks for the rep.

I see this "quick fix" problem (disguised as the solution) all the time in my business and used to be guilty of it myself. Someone goes to a biz meeting, hears the speaker's latest, greatest program to build more business and off they go with a new program-of-the-month. One month later, they're on to a newer, "better" program, that this time will magically bring more business. Rinse, shampoo, repeat. Years later, they're still broke and waiting, as one told me, for "someone to save us." lol

I'm definitely not the best or the richest, but I am definitely one who is actively involved in the PROCESS of improvement, ups AND downs included. Honesty is THE necessary ingredient to continue successfully on that process. But that is a fully integrated process in itself, not a single, quick fix either.

For example, if I pick just "attitude" to improve on, as many self-help books suggest, I'll fail. Why? Attitude, a very important ingredient for sure, is actually harmful if not backed by rational thoughts and actions. A good attitude for doing the wrong things will backfire just a surely as a poor stroke will. And vice versa. It's more than just one thingy; it is the whole, wide-scope accounting of the big picture (I'm talking the whole universe here, btw) that indentifies real problems, and one's pool shot had better fit in with that or else things stay fuzzy.

Off of soapbox,

Jeff Livingston
 
Scott Lee said:
Hey Bruce...FYI, Willie Hoppe did not play pool...he played 3-C billiards!:rolleyes:

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com
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he was a pocket billards champ and had won every award by the time he was 15 years old or so, he switched to carom billards for a new challenge.
 
I really don't see why we are mentioning great players of the past, Mosconi and Hoppe used regular shafts because thats all they had! Unless Predator had 314s produced in the 50s, you really can't use them as comparisons. Who knows, maybe with a LD shaft these players would have been even better!

This post isn't about LD shafts and whether they improve your game or not...I'm just trying to point out the fallacy in saying "Oh, the old legends never used LD shafts, that must mean they are useless"
 
I agree with the OP...there is NO magic bullet...


However...It won't stop people from trying to make one...:wink:
 
kingwang said:
I think it would be the guy with the LD shaft.....
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You have no proof of this, only speculation which is useless in this case.

If you don't spend quality time at the table, nothing is gonna help you get better.

The secert to good pool playing is that there is no secert, just hard work and determination.
 
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