Thanks Tom - Can you help me out with a less demeaning word? Every synonym that I come up with actually gets worse.
Magic Rack + Sardo Rack, we don't need them
- Thread starter Paul Schofield
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Thanks Tom - Can you help me out with a less demeaning word? Every synonym that I come up with actually gets worse.
It is interesting however Paul, in a game where EVERY OTHER shot during the match requires you to pocket a ball to keep shooting, that the break would be any different. Slop or not, in nine-ball, balls get slopped in all the time and the shooter continues to shoot. What's the difference in the break? What makes the break different from any other shot during the match where you are required to make a shot to keep shooting, slop or not?
IMO It is not the shot that is the root of the problem. It is the template in the form of a rack that makes the ensuing shot unique. No other time during the game is a player handled template used to set up a shot. There are all kinds of problems surrounding the template that appear at no other time during the game. We all know what the problems are. Because of the template and the problems associated with it, the break shot should be treated differently, if for no other reason, to avoid trouble. Where rules are concerned, avoid trouble first, address fairness last.IMO
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fluke.....
I think the motives that Paul has for this post is to think of a way to minimize the luck factor in 9 ball. Its just that the wordings and approach to his method is a little too overwhelming for some. I believe if some changes can be made towards the game it would be good for the game and the players. It may change the tradition a lot, but traditions aren't always meant to be kept. I really don't have too much opinion on what should be changed. A lot of suggestions he made are actually pretty good, but are extreme in some senses that most people can not accept in a short period.
Well I think that the result would be that players would easily figure out how to get a shot on the lowest numbered ball.
Donny Mills proved that when he played Shane. Out of something like 80 breaks he got a shot on the one and ran out more than 70 times I think.
So the problem persists because if it's rack your own then the player can manipulate the rack to their advantage. If it's rack for your opponent then they can rack to their opponent's disadvantage by making it so that it's likely that the balls get tied up.
If one uses a template which gives perfect racks then the players can figure out how to break those to insure a perfect first shot with an open layout.
The answer is to get away from 9-ball altogether and move to 10-ball. The break is tougher and the rules are better.
So far under fire 10-ball hasn't had any issues with the breaking or racking no matter what devices were used.
I don't see anything wrong with having a perfect rack and getting a shot on the 1 ball. You still need to practice for that, and it is not unfair to either player if they are both getting the same rack. However, it would make 9 ball too easy for the pros, and change the face of the game. Also, if the layout is open each time, we won't get to see much interesting layouts, it would be the battle of the break. It is fair, but boring. I do agree that 10 ball is just the better game.
I have the only solution to this problem, it's called the pillow case rack and break. At the end of each game, alternating breaks of course
the next game is started by the player collection all the balls up and placing them into a pillow case. Once all the balls are in the pillow case...the player closes off the open end with one hand, and with the other hand...picks up the pillow case and holds it upside down over the foot spot. For a soft break, it's held at 12" above the spot, hard break it's held 18" up, and for a super hard break...24". When the player is ready to break the balls...he simply lets go of the pillow case allowing the balls to fall freely from the pillow case onto the playing surface of the table. If any balls find their way into a pocket...he then gets to pick up his cue and continue shooting, if not...it's a dry drop....I mean dry break. This way, there's no pattern racking...no wing balls being made...and no questionable soft breaks I'm sure someone could post a short video on Utube demonstrating this new technique to show how it's done
Glen
the next game is started by the player collection all the balls up and placing them into a pillow case. Once all the balls are in the pillow case...the player closes off the open end with one hand, and with the other hand...picks up the pillow case and holds it upside down over the foot spot. For a soft break, it's held at 12" above the spot, hard break it's held 18" up, and for a super hard break...24". When the player is ready to break the balls...he simply lets go of the pillow case allowing the balls to fall freely from the pillow case onto the playing surface of the table. If any balls find their way into a pocket...he then gets to pick up his cue and continue shooting, if not...it's a dry drop....I mean dry break. This way, there's no pattern racking...no wing balls being made...and no questionable soft breaks I'm sure someone could post a short video on Utube demonstrating this new technique to show how it's doneGlen
Glen that is classic. You can also use a purse for those of the fair gender.
How about just saying "A ball goes in" (or similar), that covers all conditions during any game.
Open breaks allow for any ball to have the chance to 'Go in" a pocket.
Once you've spent time practicing your break shot, the chances of a ball 'going in a pocket' become greater.
During play, when you call a ball and the intended pocket and that shot is executed, any susequent ball that 'goes in' counts.
On the break (in 9 ball), if you shoot at an angle to make contact with the one ball with medium speed, the chances increase that the one ball will "go into" the side pocket.
Many players break as hard as then can, hoping to increase their chances that a ball will 'go in' a pocket so that they can continue to shoot.
Slop is just an adjative that you and a lot of other players used to describe how a ball 'goes into' a pocket.
Or, instead of 'goes in' just use the word 'pocketed'
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To Paul and others...
If the objective is to "pocket the 1-ball in the side pocket" then this specific shot is intended and would not be labled "slop". However, if another ball gets into a pocket on the break by some other means, kicked, caromed, etc, then I think any of those pocketed balls would be considered "slop".
The problem is, this is not a called-pocket game, like 8-ball, straight pool, etc, so there is NO WAY to extract a breaker's INTENTIONS... therefore, any ball that is pocketed may in fact look like slop, even if that ball is intended.
The same goes true in 9 and 10-ball when the money ball goes in on the snap. There's no way to know the racker's intentions, or know if he manipulated the rack, or if was in fact just luck. Therefore, there will always be a question or arguments.
If the objective is to "pocket the 1-ball in the side pocket" then this specific shot is intended and would not be labled "slop". However, if another ball gets into a pocket on the break by some other means, kicked, caromed, etc, then I think any of those pocketed balls would be considered "slop".
The problem is, this is not a called-pocket game, like 8-ball, straight pool, etc, so there is NO WAY to extract a breaker's INTENTIONS... therefore, any ball that is pocketed may in fact look like slop, even if that ball is intended.
The same goes true in 9 and 10-ball when the money ball goes in on the snap. There's no way to know the racker's intentions, or know if he manipulated the rack, or if was in fact just luck. Therefore, there will always be a question or arguments.
Pocketing a ball on the break in 8 ball is not always a good thing.
There have been times I've made a ball on the break, but had no shot, most of my balls were in a cluster around the 8 ball, or surround by the other person balls, the CB roll to a dead kiss against my opponents ball and so on.
I've taken to breaking in a way that makes no balls but leaves a safety or semi safety in that the rack is not open enough to run out.
This is what makes 8 ball the game. Working out the problems that are on the table after the break.
There have been times I've made a ball on the break, but had no shot, most of my balls were in a cluster around the 8 ball, or surround by the other person balls, the CB roll to a dead kiss against my opponents ball and so on.
I've taken to breaking in a way that makes no balls but leaves a safety or semi safety in that the rack is not open enough to run out.
This is what makes 8 ball the game. Working out the problems that are on the table after the break.
So you brag about how many of these threads you're responsible for . . . .
Until someone calls you on it , and you try to downplay the volume of posts . . . .
I think we'd like to play pool . You can go off and play LET'S PRETEND
I can make the 9-O-S w/40% consistency - off another ball . and I can tell you which ball , and where on the felt the collision will occur . This is a 'called shot' . And it's why the bottom two pockets don't count for 9-O-S in most Texas Express rules versions !
keith@greatbilliards
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magic rack
Anyone see the stats on the Mika vs Shane match? Mika had pleanty of dry breaks and Shane was making a lot of balls on the break. Both were using the same Magic Rack so how come if the rack makes so many balls on the break was Mika coming up dry. Everyone should try this rack. Go to ebay and buy one and try it yourself.
Anyone see the stats on the Mika vs Shane match? Mika had pleanty of dry breaks and Shane was making a lot of balls on the break. Both were using the same Magic Rack so how come if the rack makes so many balls on the break was Mika coming up dry. Everyone should try this rack. Go to ebay and buy one and try it yourself.
I would say because Shane has taken the 10 ball break to a new level just like Cory did in nineball years ago. It will take time for others to figure out and copy what he does.
If you are going to quote somebody, make sure your read the quote carefully before accusing anyone of contradicting themselves...ridinda9 said:
The first quote CLEARLY states "6 threads in the past 8 MONTHS"
The second quote CLEARLY states "3 threads in the last FIVE WEEKS"
Now unless your math is bad, there is no contradiction there.
RBC
Deceased
Paul
I find your solution very interesting.
I for one, have not been to or watched a 9 ball tourney in my life where the rack didn't make a difference. A guy who knows how to rack loses to a guy who doesn't predominantly because of balls made on the break. Most of the time the bad racks come from a lack of education and are not intentional, but then there are those who can and do give bad racks on purpose. Sure, you can check the rack and turn it all into an argument, but that doesn't solve anything either.
Then along comes the table tapping templates and the magic racks. I thought, great! now we can all get good racks. But, not everyone wants to use them, and there is the whole thing about it interfering with the roll of the balls. I'm not sure it's a perfect solution, but I do think it's a good one, I like it. Everyone gets the same rack.
Now you have an idea that sounds very interesting. Your logic is very sound to me, I'm a logical kind of guy. I will urge the people I play with to try it out to see if we like it. I don't get to play very much these days, but it's often enough that we can give it a good run to see the difference it makes.
My advice to you on how to sway the masses is to do what I propose to my friends. Instead of trying to convince them with why you think it's better, just encourage them to try it for themselves. If they like it, they will keep playing it and also tell everyone they know about it. If not enough people like it, then it isn't going to have any staying power anyway. Let's face it, it's the people who play the game who will decide. I also encourage all of those who don't like the idea to try it out before dismissing it. What is good advice for Paul is also good advice for those against his idea. If you have given it a fair shot and still don't care for it, you will have much more credibility than if you just bash it without trying it first.
I look forward to trying it out and letting you know what I think. It may be a few weeks before I can really give it a good try, but I will let you know what I think when I do.
Well, that's how I see it.
I find your solution very interesting.
I for one, have not been to or watched a 9 ball tourney in my life where the rack didn't make a difference. A guy who knows how to rack loses to a guy who doesn't predominantly because of balls made on the break. Most of the time the bad racks come from a lack of education and are not intentional, but then there are those who can and do give bad racks on purpose. Sure, you can check the rack and turn it all into an argument, but that doesn't solve anything either.
Then along comes the table tapping templates and the magic racks. I thought, great! now we can all get good racks. But, not everyone wants to use them, and there is the whole thing about it interfering with the roll of the balls. I'm not sure it's a perfect solution, but I do think it's a good one, I like it. Everyone gets the same rack.
Now you have an idea that sounds very interesting. Your logic is very sound to me, I'm a logical kind of guy. I will urge the people I play with to try it out to see if we like it. I don't get to play very much these days, but it's often enough that we can give it a good run to see the difference it makes.
My advice to you on how to sway the masses is to do what I propose to my friends. Instead of trying to convince them with why you think it's better, just encourage them to try it for themselves. If they like it, they will keep playing it and also tell everyone they know about it. If not enough people like it, then it isn't going to have any staying power anyway. Let's face it, it's the people who play the game who will decide. I also encourage all of those who don't like the idea to try it out before dismissing it. What is good advice for Paul is also good advice for those against his idea. If you have given it a fair shot and still don't care for it, you will have much more credibility than if you just bash it without trying it first.
I look forward to trying it out and letting you know what I think. It may be a few weeks before I can really give it a good try, but I will let you know what I think when I do.
Well, that's how I see it.