As I've played more I've learned that on a cut shot a harder hit cuts less and a softer shot cuts more. This is more obvious on longer shots (object ball to pocket). Are you better off with a consistent shot speed and being comfortable with a consistent cut angle (easier to maker, but losing some control over shape) or adjusting for both speed and cut angle? I'm not sure I've phased this question well, but when you're down on a critical shot do you focus on a consistent speed and angle or do you add some complexity with speed for better shape? What's more important? This is a trade-off that's been bugging me. Does this kind of stuff get in your mind when you're about to shoot? How do you more accomplished player handle this? Obviously, making the shot and getting good shape's ideal, but practically what do you really focus on to get the best result? BTW, I mostly play straight pool.
Making it vs. Shape
- Thread starter slach
- Start date
AMEN. If you don't make the shot, then the leave on the next ball doesn't matter. Try to work on a speed that you are comfortable with to use as a baseline for future shots. Get an idea of how much table travel you get at that speed and you can adjust accordingly.
Hitting it easier doesn't cut the ball more. You have to hit the ball harder on thin cuts to get the ball to the hole. If you get out of line on a ball you have a chance of getting in more trouble on the next ball. No one can play good pool by putting more into making the ball over cueball control.
I gotta disagree, a softer hit will cut more. (?)
What you have discovered is Cut-Induced-Throw; the faster the CB moves, the more it throws the OB off line. The typical way to compensate is to use outside english (1/3rd to 1/2 tip) so that the edge of the CB making contact with the OB is not moving relative to the OB at contact. THis strategy works 60%-70% of the time. Here, you are using Spin-Induced-Throw to compensate for Cut-Induced-Throw.
On those shots where you must make the OB AND get (that tricky) position on the CB, you have to figure out the path you want the CB to take, the speed you want the CB to have, the spin the CB requires, and then compensate for the speed, english, and spin by moving the contact point on the OB. Many times, punting with a safety is a viable alternate strategy.
On those shots where you must make the OB AND get (that tricky) position on the CB, you have to figure out the path you want the CB to take, the speed you want the CB to have, the spin the CB requires, and then compensate for the speed, english, and spin by moving the contact point on the OB. Many times, punting with a safety is a viable alternate strategy.
I can't call myself an accomplished player, but when I'm out of shape, I try not to fall of the slippery rope. You know, the shots get harder and harder till you're off:wink: I do a couple of things to stay in the game.
First, I use center ball and keep it simple for accuracy sakes, cinch the shot and do what it takes to give myself the best next shot....or a shot period.....put the ball in the hole.
Second, I use speed to regain shape if I can, and minimal english unless you have to. Long cut shots and must make shots become just make it shots to me, add too many spices to the soup and it don't taste good lots of the time.
Unless of course you're playing for money. I still say make it or try to play a 2 way.
First, I use center ball and keep it simple for accuracy sakes, cinch the shot and do what it takes to give myself the best next shot....or a shot period.....put the ball in the hole.
Second, I use speed to regain shape if I can, and minimal english unless you have to. Long cut shots and must make shots become just make it shots to me, add too many spices to the soup and it don't taste good lots of the time.
Unless of course you're playing for money. I still say make it or try to play a 2 way.
#1 rule...make sure you make the ball.
After that IMO the closer to center ball (CB) you can hit each shot the better. I spin a lot of balls because I have played so many years, but if I just started to play today and know what I know now I would always strive for as close to center hit as possible and as natural position as posible. Johnnyt
After that IMO the closer to center ball (CB) you can hit each shot the better. I spin a lot of balls because I have played so many years, but if I just started to play today and know what I know now I would always strive for as close to center hit as possible and as natural position as posible. Johnnyt
Depends on how "critical" the shot is...
In my opinion sometimes a player would be better off missing a shot than leaving themselves poorly. If I miss, it is my opponents shot, but if I pocket my object ball and have no follow up shot then it will soon become my opponents turn, only now with one less obstacle in their way...
surely there are more qualified parties on this site that will chime in, I am curious as to the responses as well!
In my opinion sometimes a player would be better off missing a shot than leaving themselves poorly. If I miss, it is my opponents shot, but if I pocket my object ball and have no follow up shot then it will soon become my opponents turn, only now with one less obstacle in their way...
surely there are more qualified parties on this site that will chime in, I am curious as to the responses as well!
Actually, the faster the CB moves the less it throws the OB off line. It loses "grip", like a tire spinning out on pavement.
Another typical way is to overcut a little - this can be easier to aim too.
I'd say you're using spin to avoid throw of any kind, but that's a technical detail.
Also, you can often get by with less spin than you think.
pj
chgo
I usually shoot an miss then say "well I had shape" bahaaa
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. **roo$t@r**
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk. **roo$t@r**
Correct as usual. Slower speed produces more collision induced throw. This from Dr. Dave's website:
I couldnt agree more,almost everything i shoot i will spin in,it is amazing what spin will make that qball do,same here Johnny t,i been playing too long now to stop what iam doing(spinning almost everything)its the only way i know how to play,is it the rite way ,not even close,the more you spin the qball,the much more diffulcult the shot will become,so like u say Johnny,its best for most people to hit close as middle as u can on the qball,u will make alot more shots as of trying to spin the ball!
This comes up all the time...it's important to do both. If you practice and shoot with the mindset that as long as I can make a ball and see a ball and pocket I'm fine, then you'll be a C player for life. The earlier you learn to visualize where the cue ball will go after contact and adjust as necessary the faster you'll progress up the food chain. I see guys all the time who've been shooting for decades, and all they do is cinch balls...and are sure to be out of line within two balls. If they run more than three balls it's completely by coincidence. Then when they miss they dance around with body english, hoping the ball rolls safe, like they were angling for it the whole time.
The closer to centerball you stay the better, as the angle off the collision is more predictable...use only as much speed and spin as you need to put the whitey where you want...no more no less.
OBTW, another reason for a difference in fast cut shots and slow rolling them is stroke error. The faster the stroke the more likely you are to squirt it thick and dive into the rail. Really slow rolling with a spin shot has the added variable of the spinning cueball's roll-off...it curves offline. Really cool if you adjust for it and do it on purpose (for a reason, not just to look pretty).
The closer to centerball you stay the better, as the angle off the collision is more predictable...use only as much speed and spin as you need to put the whitey where you want...no more no less.
OBTW, another reason for a difference in fast cut shots and slow rolling them is stroke error. The faster the stroke the more likely you are to squirt it thick and dive into the rail. Really slow rolling with a spin shot has the added variable of the spinning cueball's roll-off...it curves offline. Really cool if you adjust for it and do it on purpose (for a reason, not just to look pretty).
I think it would be nice if everyone giving advise on playing pool had to show a video of their speed!
Lol at this
To the op- Just remember that the thinner you cut the object ball the more speed the cueball continues to carry. If you need to stay at the same end of the table it is often helpful to use spin in order to translate the forward movement into an angle off the rail.
No offense slach... questions like this are classic overthinking.
Most players can't finely control which part of the pocket they hit unless it's a fairly close shot, nor hit with the same cue ball speed over and over. They'll convince themselves a miss was due to some unknown quirk of physics rather than "I just cut the ball at the wrong angle."
How many times have we all seen a player butcher a shot and then say "ahh shit, I hit it too hard?"
You can end up missing balls trying to compensate for this stuff manually rather than letting your brain do it automatically. Hit with the speed appropriate for the position you want. Let your brain and eyes coordinate to tell you where to aim.
If a shot is already difficult, hitting at a speed that's closer to your comfort zone (lag speed in my case but your mileage may vary) probably decreases the chances of a miss. But if your comfort speed will result in leaving yourself a bank or another long missable shot, you should just use the speed that gets you shape. Playing for the best possible cue ball position all the time is a faster route to getting good than cinching the tough ones.
Most players can't finely control which part of the pocket they hit unless it's a fairly close shot, nor hit with the same cue ball speed over and over. They'll convince themselves a miss was due to some unknown quirk of physics rather than "I just cut the ball at the wrong angle."
How many times have we all seen a player butcher a shot and then say "ahh shit, I hit it too hard?"
You can end up missing balls trying to compensate for this stuff manually rather than letting your brain do it automatically. Hit with the speed appropriate for the position you want. Let your brain and eyes coordinate to tell you where to aim.
If a shot is already difficult, hitting at a speed that's closer to your comfort zone (lag speed in my case but your mileage may vary) probably decreases the chances of a miss. But if your comfort speed will result in leaving yourself a bank or another long missable shot, you should just use the speed that gets you shape. Playing for the best possible cue ball position all the time is a faster route to getting good than cinching the tough ones.