Making your opponents shoot every shot or concede out of respect?

[CreeDo]

The look you should be giving isn't "are you giving me this one?", it's "why are you getting up while I'm shooting?".

Agree. I am a bit of a sissy though to confront people about it, especially when they're friends. Happened recently and it felt awkward. Also there's always that one guy who says something like 'if you're a real player you aren't easily distracted and should make it no matter what'. Some part of me wants to believe that's true even though another part of me knows certain moves can work no matter how much you try to prepare your mind.

 

[claymont]

Agree. I am a bit of a sissy though to confront people about it, especially when they're friends. Happened recently and it felt awkward. Also there's always that one guy who says something like 'if you're a real player you aren't easily distracted and should make it no matter what'. Some part of me wants to believe that's true even though another part of me knows certain moves can work no matter how much you try to prepare your mind.

"What doesn't kill you...makes you stronger. Your time for revenge is at hand" Jean-Baptiste Emanuel Zorg

 

[Matt]

Agree. I am a bit of a sissy though to confront people about it, especially when they're friends. Happened recently and it felt awkward. Also there's always that one guy who says something like 'if you're a real player you aren't easily distracted and should make it no matter what'. Some part of me wants to believe that's true even though another part of me knows certain moves can work no matter how much you try to prepare your mind.

I've heard that before, and agree to the extent that the better players do a good job of tuning out distractions, but don't consider it an excuse to disrespect your opponent by creating distractions while they are shooting.

 

[timdog24]

No, but I've seen the best in the world dog it. Myself, and the people I play stink by comparison, and I'm going to make them shoot.

You've seen a decent player miss the 9 ball with ball in hand? What kind of suckers are you playing?:smile:
I have no problem with guys never conceding the 9 while their opponent is running out, that's one thing. But no player with any type of speed will miss with ball in hand on the 9 ball. Maybe once a leap year. So, what is the point? Why not just rack 'em up and play the next game? Sounds like a desperado move.

 

[JohnnyP]

Bad things can happen when you are nervous:

1) Touch the cue ball while practice stroking.
2) Strike the cue ball off center, throwing the shot off line.
3) Miss cue.

Wayne Norcross once told me "Anyone can miss any shot at any time."

 

[PGHteacher]

You've seen a decent player miss the 9 ball with ball in hand?

Yup

What kind of suckers are you playing?:smile:

Played players from "D" to pro, no one is immune.

But no player with any type of speed will miss with ball in hand on the 9 ball.

You're wrong, simple as that.

Maybe once a leap year. So, what is the point?

If you are around this game long enough frequency will become irrelevant, if the possibility exists I will make them shoot it, make the call etc.. etc..

Why not just rack 'em up and play the next game?

^^^^^^^^^^See above.

Sounds like a desperado move.

What does that have to do with anything? If the possibility exists that they will miss, foul or otherwise give the game back to you I will make them shoot it or make that call, it does not matter if that occurrence will happen 1 out of 1,000,000 times; for me that is not "desperate" and if someone deems it as "desperate" so be it. You see you will lose 1,000,000 of those games and I will only lose 999,999 of them.

 

[RRfireblade]

Yup


for me that is not "desperate" and if someone deems it as "desperate" so be it. You see you will lose 1,000,000 of those games and I will only lose 999,999 of them.

Bearing in mind that there is no right or wrong 'opinion'...

IMO

That's exceptionally desperate and actually somewhat embarrassing I'm sorry to say. A win is a win, granted. But to hang your hopes on a 1 in million shot....it's just sad to lower yourself to that level. And it's a big part of the negative, dark room basement image that has clouded the game for so long. Sportsmanship means so little to so many. It's such a shame really.

I'm aware that we live in a world where honor and respect literally mean nothing to most people but there is not an ounce of honor in 'winning' in that fashion and I would lose respect for myself if that's how I had to win a game. That doesn't make you a winner.....it makes you a loser in life.


Sorry if that sounds harsh. I'm not really talking about you as a person (being I quoted your comment) but that whole mentaliity.

Anyway.....Just a worthless opinion.







<-------Always ready to shoot the 9.

 

[plyittothetbone]

it all depends on the situation and circumstances imo. if its for funsies or small stakes (cheap sets 5-10 a set) with a friend then ill concede if its an easy run out and i know they can make them. in a tournament or for any amount of cash, i would make my mother shoot every shot.

 

[ignomirello]

When a calcutta is involved

In stoke play when you are against the whole field there are no concessions, but in match play, one on one, there are concessions. With that being said I think every shot should be taken.

On another note. I bought a guy in a calcutta, bar table 8 ball. In one of the games of the final matches he conceded after the guy broke the balls. Pissed me off.

When a calcutta is involved, that player should realize somebody had enough respect to buy them.
And if that happends they should offer the calcutta money back or be banned from future tournaments!

 

[ignomirello]

I never seen it happen

On the Tri-State Tour you lose a game if you concede.

I never seen it happen (loss of game)
But I have seen a lot of games conceded but never seen anybody complain about it.

It is respect & can be used to keep your oponet out of stroke too.
It really depends on the situation.

 

[ignomirello]

agreed

What would you call Sportsmanship/Respect?

1 - Making the other shooter pick up a 9 ball & Cue ball Placing them on the table & making them shoot.

2 - or conceeding the game?

Bearing in mind that there is no right or wrong 'opinion'...

IMO

That's exceptionally desperate and actually somewhat embarrassing I'm sorry to say. A win is a win, granted. But to hang your hopes on a 1 in million shot....it's just sad to lower yourself to that level. And it's a big part of the negative, dark room basement image that has clouded the game for so long. Sportsmanship means so little to so many. It's such a shame really.

I'm aware that we live in a world where honor and respect literally mean nothing to most people but there is not an ounce of honor in 'winning' in that fashion and I would lose respect for myself if that's how I had to win a game. That doesn't make you a winner.....it makes you a loser in life.


Sorry if that sounds harsh. I'm not really talking about you as a person (being I quoted your comment) but that whole mentaliity.

Anyway.....Just a worthless opinion.







<-------Always ready to shoot the 9.

 

[timdog24]

What does that have to do with anything? If the possibility exists that they will miss, foul or otherwise give the game back to you I will make them shoot it or make that call, it does not matter if that occurrence will happen 1 out of 1,000,000 times; for me that is not "desperate" and if someone deems it as "desperate" so be it. You see you will lose 1,000,000 of those games and I will only lose 999,999 of them.

It would not bother me one bit if my opponent, after scratching on the 9, wanted me to spot it up and shoot it in. Any time you're playing a guy like that, you gotta know you're stealing. I just think it's incredibly petty between players that can play at all, to do that.
But..If you're ever in the NY area, maybe we can play some and I'll be more than happy to shoot in the 9 every time you give me ball-in-hand.

 

[PGHteacher]

It would not bother me one bit if my opponent, after scratching on the 9,

With all due respect that's not what you said, you said BIH on the 9 not scratch on the 9 and you didn't specify in what situation it was in, for me there is a difference. What if you scratch on the 8 and your opponent is on the 9 with BIH and the 9 is frozen to the long rail 3 1/2 diamonds up the long rail? Do you make him shoot it in a tournament? This is the kind of situation that comes to mind for me, not making my buddy shoot the 9 if I scratch; that to me is a different universe.

wanted me to spot it up and shoot it in. Any time you're playing a guy like that, you gotta know you're stealing. I just think it's incredibly petty between players that can play at all, to do that.

My opinion is that it is a situational call, if that situation happened to me in a league or tournament situation I would make him shoot it, when I am playing with my buddies a scratch on the 9 is a loss plain & simple, the latter is with everyone I know.

But..If you're ever in the NY area, maybe we can play some and I'll be more than happy to shoot in the 9 every time you give me ball-in-hand.

And if your ever in the Pittsburgh area maybe we can play some and see if I give you BIH on the 9, (pisst, don't count on it):nono:

Bearing in mind that there is no right or wrong 'opinion'...

I agree 100%

IMO

That's exceptionally desperate and actually somewhat embarrassing I'm sorry to say.

I think you are thinking like timdog and thinking that if I am playing around and someone scratching on the 9 and I make them shoot it every time; well of course not, but in a tournament situation yes I would.

A win is a win, granted. But to hang your hopes on a 1 in million shot....it's just sad to lower yourself to that level.

I have made lots of "one in a million shots" to win a game and match, I am sure you can say the same; I have watched lots of people, and I mean good players both live and in taped matches dog "gimmes", and am sure you have to, in official capacities I do not concede period in casual capacities I do all the time for many reasons, this is where our opinion differs and that is just fine.

And it's a big part of the negative, dark room basement image that has clouded the game for so long. Sportsmanship means so little to so many. It's such a shame really.

I know there is one guy on here that uses concession as a tactic to win a game sometime later in the match, how much more unsportsmanlike can you get? You can go and watch some video of pros scratching on the $ ball and the ball before the $ ball, and if I look hard enough I bet I can even find one that makes the other shoot the 9 on a 9 ball scratch. Does that make them losers in life? Well IMHO it just doesn't.

I'm aware that we live in a world where honor and respect literally mean nothing to most people but there is not an ounce of honor in 'winning' in that fashion and I would lose respect for myself if that's how I had to win a game. That doesn't make you a winner.....it makes you a loser in life.

Some think it's honorable and respectful to concede, some think it's the exact opposite, that is also the world we live in everyone has their own take on things and I respect them all even if they are different than mine, there is one guy here that thinks you should be hanged if you ever concede anything, I mean WOW.

Sorry if that sounds harsh. I'm not really talking about you as a person (being I quoted your comment) but that whole mentaliity.

It isn't a "mentality" per say it is more of a policy, kind of like a "blanket rule" like not drawing with BIH. I don't concede in tournament situations that is of course subject to change under certain conditions.

Lets take a hypothetical situation say that my buddy and I were in the finals of a 9 ball tournament (the last time that happened we just split the pot), it's hill hill and I scratch on the 9, he comes over and shakes my hand and says "good match", what do you think I am going to do? Do you think I am going to say "hey you got to shoot the 9?" well of course not, maybe in jest but that's about it.

But let's say that the tournament rules say "no concessions" and I am playing someone I don't know in the finals well I am forced aren't I? The answer is yes. I just happen to believe (like many others here) that concession has no place in tournament pool and should be relegated to social environments, some here think it has no place at all anywhere.

Anyway.....Just a worthless opinion.

Nah no such thing

 

[RRfireblade]

Blah blah blah....

Spin it all you want, we all know exactly what we're talking about so I'm not going to waste any time going point for point on a nonsensical circle jerk.

It's petty , it's low class and poor sportsmanship. And anyone with a ounce of honor and self worth would agree. Even those that claim they have 'reasons' for being that way know deep down inside they're full of $hit.

Simple as that. But you can't talk morality into people, it's either in them or it's not. No biggie, life goes on.

That's my last comment on the subject.

With all due respect that's not what you said, you said BIH on the 9 not scratch on the 9 and you didn't specify in what situation it was in, for me there is a difference. What if you scratch on the 8 and your opponent is on the 9 with BIH and the 9 is frozen to the long rail 3 1/2 diamonds up the long rail? Do you make him shoot it in a tournament? This is the kind of situation that comes to mind for me, not making my buddy shoot the 9 if I scratch; that to me is a different universe.



My opinion is that it is a situational call, if that situation happened to me in a league or tournament situation I would make him shoot it, when I am playing with my buddies a scratch on the 9 is a loss plain & simple, the latter is with everyone I know.



And if your ever in the Pittsburgh area maybe we can play some and see if I give you BIH on the 9, (pisst, don't count on it):nono:




I agree 100%



I think you are thinking like timdog and thinking that if I am playing around and someone scratching on the 9 and I make them shoot it every time; well of course not, but in a tournament situation yes I would.



I have made lots of "one in a million shots" to win a game and match, I am sure you can say the same; I have watched lots of people, and I mean good players both live and in taped matches dog "gimmes", and am sure you have to, in official capacities I do not concede period in casual capacities I do all the time for many reasons, this is where our opinion differs and that is just fine.



I know there is one guy on here that uses concession as a tactic to win a game sometime later in the match, how much more unsportsmanlike can you get? You can go and watch some video of pros scratching on the $ ball and the ball before the $ ball, and if I look hard enough I bet I can even find one that makes the other shoot the 9 on a 9 ball scratch. Does that make them losers in life? Well IMHO it just doesn't.



Some think it's honorable and respectful to concede, some think it's the exact opposite, that is also the world we live in everyone has their own take on things and I respect them all even if they are different than mine, there is one guy here that thinks you should be hanged if you ever concede anything, I mean WOW.



It isn't a "mentality" per say it is more of a policy, kind of like a "blanket rule" like not drawing with BIH. I don't concede in tournament situations that is of course subject to change under certain conditions.

Lets take a hypothetical situation say that my buddy and I were in the finals of a 9 ball tournament (the last time that happened we just split the pot), it's hill hill and I scratch on the 9, he comes over and shakes my hand and says "good match", what do you think I am going to do? Do you think I am going to say "hey you got to shoot the 9?" well of course not, maybe in jest but that's about it.

But let's say that the tournament rules say "no concessions" and I am playing someone I don't know in the finals well I am forced aren't I? The answer is yes. I just happen to believe (like many others here) that concession has no place in tournament pool and should be relegated to social environments, some here think it has no place at all anywhere.



Nah no such thing

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

With all due respect that's not what you said, you said BIH on the 9 not scratch on the 9 and you didn't specify in what situation it was in, for me there is a difference. What if you scratch on the 8 and your opponent is on the 9 with BIH and the 9 is frozen to the long rail 3 1/2 diamonds up the long rail? Do you make him shoot it in a tournament? This is the kind of situation that comes to mind for me, not making my buddy shoot the 9 if I scratch; that to me is a different universe.

I'm confused. What exactly is the relevant difference in these two situations? There is always a chance of a miscue, foul, or flat out miss with ball in hand. I dare say we've all done it. Since you stated you would make your opponent shoot if there was even a one in a million chance he'll miss (which there always is), what's the difference whether he scratched on the 8 or the 9 if you're going to make him shoot in either case?

 

[mpex]

The concept of sharking has me thinking. I NEVER want to do that to a player, but is that in fact what I'm doing???

I never would concede a match, but I will sometimes concede a game during a match, especially if it's early on. Now I would never step up, wipe the balls or anything like that. Just simply say 'That's good.'

My reasoning as I've been taught is to not give your opponent the confidence of making that final ball. Is that sharking? If so, I'll stop, no questions.

 

[mantis99]

There are no concessions in professional golf. You must putt out. I don't think pool should be any different.
There are any number of things than can go wrong with even the easiest of shots. A heart attack in mid-stroke, for instance. A jealous husband tapping you on the back, just as you shoot. A wife with four kids standing at the front dood of the pool room screaming, "I need money for food!" Shit like that. :smile:

That's not really true. When golf is played in match play, putts or holes are often conceded when one person is obviously going to win the hole. Tournament play is obviously different as the format affects so many more people.

That being said, I am not really for conceding games, and believe all shots should be made.

 

[DogsPlayingPool]

It seems many here would never concede a shot and consider it sharking. So why is it that you frequently see professionals concede shots to each other yet I've never seen an argument break out where the shooter accuses their opponent of sharking or unsportsmanlike conduct. They always seem to accept the concession in the spirit it was offered - gentlemanly. And you know darn well pros will make an issue of it if they think they are being sharked.

 

[PGHteacher]

I'm confused. What exactly is the relevant difference in these two situations? There is always a chance of a miscue, foul, or flat out miss with ball in hand. I dare say we've all done it. Since you stated you would make your opponent shoot if there was even a one in a million chance he'll miss (which there always is),

In a tournament setting there is no difference at all, he has to sink the 9ball to win, no ifs ands or buts. This is not true of social situations when I am playing around with my buddies.

what's the difference whether he scratched on the 8 or the 9 if you're going to make him shoot in either case?

I am as I said not going to make him shoot it in either case always, it is situational; the biggest difference is the position of the 9 ball; if it is a scratch on the 9 it is returned to the spot,a scratch on the 8 and the 9 reamins in place. There are places that the 9ball can be resting that are of lower % than the foot spot. The worst place I can think of is frozen to the long rail not close enough to push through the point and make it in the side.

As I said this is a judgement/situational call with the exception of within a tournament setting in that case my policy is to have him shoot, my policy is in social situations exactly the other way around, in that situation my policy is to concede with few exceptions.

 

[Hungarian]

You made such a stink in earlier posts and now this? Step off

In a tournament setting there is no difference at all, he has to sink the 9ball to win, no ifs ands or buts. This is not true of social situations when I am playing around with my buddies.



I am as I said not going to make him shoot it in either case always, it is situational; the biggest difference is the position of the 9 ball; if it is a scratch on the 9 it is returned to the spot,a scratch on the 8 and the 9 reamins in place. There are places that the 9ball can be resting that are of lower % than the foot spot. The worst place I can think of is frozen to the long rail not close enough to push through the point and make it in the side.

As I said this is a judgement/situational call with the exception of within a tournament setting in that case my policy is to have him shoot, my policy is in social situations exactly the other way around, in that situation my policy is to concede with few exceptions.