Mark Trainer. anyone know him?

  • Thread starter Thread starter Timberly
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rackmsuckr said:
If you are thinking Athletes First, he does not actually have any affiliation with them yet, (other than maybe some contacts) but is hoping to have enough clout to be considered by them by bringing in a stable full of pool players. In bringing in large blocks of players to Athletes First, he is thinking that it will be easier to have them market the athletes. He would be the manager, and they would be the agents...or is it vice versa? Mark explained it to me once. :p
WOW, the dude doesn't even have a job in the industry and he's getting a large percentage of the players winnings, regardless?? :eek: :eek: WOW

This story gets more and more bizarre. He "hopes" to get on with this company...no guarantee for the players that this will happen but yet he's guaranteed money from the players. THEN, if he did happen to get on with them... the company, should they find endorsement deals, will get a cut, then Mark will get a cut, and the players will be lucky to see 10% which is what they should be out of, not getting.

WOW
 
rackmsuckr said:
To save you from searching, here it is. Mark is on the far right. On his right is another signed player, Teddy Garrahan, although now that I think about it, Teddy only qualified so far for Vegas.

Teddy is now partners with MT.....
 
rackmsuckr said:
Thanks for the info. I too, wondered why Sigel would sign if he was set for life given the amount he has already won for the LJJ match and the KOH. However, if he doesn't get to play players like me, plus missed calls that go his way, he may have trouble getting 25K per event. He missed the last one by $20k. :rolleyes:

Just kidding, I know he has the potential to play really well. :p

If I am not mistaken, Mt and MS were on the road together many years ago.
 
ironman said:
Teddy is now partners with MT.....

Hmmm, now a couple things became clearer. Do you know this for fact? And what can Teddy bring to the table for Mark?
 
rackmsuckr said:
I am confused, what staff of what company? The IPT, Athletes First, or the Venetian? If you are thinking Athletes First, he does not actually have any affiliation with them yet, (other than maybe some contacts) but is hoping to have enough clout to be considered by them by bringing in a stable full of pool players. In bringing in large blocks of players to Athletes First, he is thinking that it will be easier to have them market the athletes. He would be the manager, and they would be the agents...or is it vice versa? Mark explained it to me once. :p

Yes, it is the same Mark Trainer and he plays very well.

And the hits just keep on coming.
 
rackmsuckr said:
Hmmm, now a couple things became clearer. Do you know this for fact? And what can Teddy bring to the table for Mark?
Just like MS... him being "signed up" could be an advertisement... the players that respect and trust them might be more willing to sign on just because they hear that these two have.... I know I'm Ms. Negativity and Ms. Conspiracy theorist with all this, but my instincts are screaming this isn't on the up & up. I certainly don't know all but my instincts are much smarter than I am and it's rare that my instincts are off... LOL, you'd think after 34 yrs I would've learned to listen to myself a little better but I still go against myself & end up regretting it. This is definitely a time where I would listen to that little nagging voice inside my head saying this isn't kewl...
 
The more that I read this thread the more my skin crawls and my stomach turns. Now it appears that this "agent" isn't even affiliated with an established, reputable agency and has no experience in this field. How much larger must the red flag be?
This is not my area of expertise, but there is an area of law called Sports Law and there is somewhat of an industry "standard" player's representation (agents) contract. I was able to track one down on the web, and although the one that I copied is from England, I believe that it is fairly representative of what one should reasonably expect here in the US as well.
The other thing that everyone must realize is that there are not too many Michael Jordans, or Maria Sharapovas in the world. Major endorsements, outside of the pool industry will, most likely, be far and few between. Sorry!

Although I only know what I have read here on AZ, there seems to be several items that are WAY out of line here.
1) The "agent" is not even affiliated with a reputable, or any, agency.
2) A reputable agency should also provides the "player" with legal, financial and tax advice, among other services for the benefit of the player. Is this person able and willing to provide these professional services?
3) As with all contracts, potential conflicts of interest are warning signs that the contract should be avoided. If prior relationships exists between your agent and other involved parties extreme caution and avoidance is highly recommended.
4) Since most of the "player" contracts involve athletes that are salaried, and salary negotiations are part of the "standard" contract, I'm not sure how to reconcile or compensate for the fact that the pool players are not salaried, but must win their paychecks. The service of salary negotiation is not provided.
5) Regardless, the agent's percentages seem excessive compared to those in the example below.
6) Again, this appears to be another example of someone trying to take total advantage of the hard work and skills of the players in order to do nothing more than establish themselves.

I've said this before and I'll say it again, without the players banding together to hire a very experienced sports entertainment attorney and form a "players association", or "players union" to protect them from being taken advantage of, they will be subjected to many situations that they will simply not be prepared to deal with.

Nothing contained in this post is to be considered legal advice.

EXAMPLE:

Standard Representation Agreement

This agreement is made on this 20th day of December 2001 by and between ------ ("Player") and Paragon Sports Group, Inc. / PSG ("Agent").

Player and Agent agree as follows:

1. Representation

Player hereby retains PSG to act as player's sole and exclusive
representative for the next twenty-four (24) months to represent, advise and
counsel Player in all contracts entered into with professional football/soccer
clubs throughout the world and in all business affairs related to Player's
status as a professional football/soccer player, including but not limited to
endorsements, and promotional contracts throughout the world.

2. Compensation for Services

PSG shall receive a fee of ten percent (10%) of the compensation, which
includes salary and signing bonuses, received by player from any contract
entered into with any professional football/soccer club throughout the world,
and a fee of twenty percent (20%) of the endorsement and promotional
compensation received by Player from any contract throughout the world related
to the Player's status as a professional football/soccer player in which
negotiations, advisement or counseling for such contracts are begun or completed
over the next twenty-four (24) months. All fees are to be paid in full within
the term of this contract.

All fees shall be earned and due at the time of execution of any
contract entered into by Player. Player shall direct the football/soccer club,
sponsor or other organization who is party to any contract with Player to make
payment of fees directly to PSG at the time of execution of any contract with
Player.

3. General Terms

(A) Player shall have final approval of all contractual terms and PSG
cannot enter in to any contract without Player's approval.

(B) Player hereby warrants that Player is free to enter into this
agreement and that Player is not currently represented by or under contract for
representation with any other party.


1
<PAGE>

(C) Player acknowledges that PSG may engage professionals, including
attorneys, accountants and other licensed agents to fulfill certain terms of the
agreement and that PSG may assign the proceeds derived from this agreement in
PSG's sole discretion.

(D) This agreement shall be construed and interpreted according to
English Law and PSG shall have the right to enforce this agreement in any
country, territory, state or other municipality that PSG exclusively deems
appropriate. Any and all disputes, controversies, or claims arising between
Player and PSG under this agreement shall be settled by arbitration in the City
of London pursuant to the laws of the International Chamber of Commerce.

(E) This agreement may be executed via facsimile and in counterpart,
and a copy of the executed agreement shall serve as an original.


Agreed to:





Player: /s/ Shep Messing: /s/ Shep Messing
--------------- ----------------------------
Chairman & CEO
Paragon Sports Group, Inc.
 
In soccer in Europe,being a player's agent is a potentially extremely lucrative business,bearing in mind the proliferation of transfer fees (with their usual incorporated percentages for players and agents) in addition to the normal flow of endorsement deals etc.

In order to operate legally in that field players' agents must be licensed and one part of the licensing procedure is the lodging of a substantial cash deposit guarantee/bond which is held against any nefarious practices etc.I don't know what the current sum is but I think it is in excess of the equivalent of US$200,000/- .

Is there any such system in the USA for players' agents in any of the sports areas?
 
What happens if the IPT folds after this year?
Does this guy keep paying the players a monthly salary?
I think he'll find a way to void the contracts or do a dissapearing act.
 
The Kid said:
What happens if the IPT folds after this year?
Does this guy keep paying the players a monthly salary?
I think he'll find a way to void the contracts or do a dissapearing act.


Maybe he can collect all those plastic trophies, melt them down and start selling frisbees.
 
The Kid said:
What happens if the IPT folds after this year?
Does this guy keep paying the players a monthly salary?
I think he'll find a way to void the contracts or do a dissapearing act.
The "salary" is a loan that the player must pay back. It's not like a salary that you get from going to work every week. It's a play on words.
 
Timberly said:
The "salary" is a loan that the player must pay back. It's not like a salary that you get from going to work every week. It's a play on words.

Many people work on "draw" which is deducted from their comission. It is comon in many sales positions.
What is the difference with this and what "backers" do? The backer pays expenses and entries and then deducts them from winnings only to split the remainder 50/50.
It seems to me that Mark Trainer is basicly ding the same thing except he is taking 40%. He is simply playing a numbers game. The more he signs, the better his chances.
 
ironman said:
Many people work on "draw" which is deducted from their comission. It is comon in many sales positions.
What is the difference with this and what "backers" do? The backer pays expenses and entries and then deducts them from winnings only to split the remainder 50/50.
It seems to me that Mark Trainer is basicly ding the same thing except he is taking 40%. He is simply playing a numbers game. The more he signs, the better his chances.

You don't have to pay back a salary.
There is a big difference btween a salary and a loan.

Gabber
 
ironman said:
What is the difference with this and what "backers" do? The backer pays expenses and entries and then deducts them from winnings only to split the remainder 50/50.

Then it is the same kind of business relationship a Pimp has with a prostitute.:cool:
 
ironman said:
What is the difference with this and what "backers" do? The backer pays expenses and entries and then deducts them from winnings only to split the remainder 50/50.
It depends on the agreement between the player and the backer. I've noticed in the last yr or so that I've been back around pool that 50/50 seems to be the norm these days. I seem to recall the percentages being a little different 10-15 yrs ago.... no big deal, times change, all kinds of things change. I know some guys that have a "permanent" backer where it's known that expenses & winnings, etc are a done deal for each tournament. There's other guys that have more of a part time backer(s). There's no one set upon agreement for every tournament.... sometimes the players goes it on his own, other times a backer is involved... this is the kind of thing I was thinking of when I stated the players could get a backer, cheaper.

These are high calibur players... They might need a little financial help getting to the event but once they've collected their paycheck, there should be little need for much more help. These guys are going to be bringing in some serious dough at these tourneys.

I personally would rather enter into a one or two tournament agreement with a backer and be done with it. At least you know where you stand when you personally set up a deal with a backer. (things can & have gone wrong, we all know this) but at the same time, look at the contract these guys have signed... with a guy that isn't even employed by a company that can help him do what he's told these guys he will do for them.
 
Gabber said:
You don't have to pay back a salary.
There is a big difference btween a salary and a loan.

Gabber

Salary, loan, what's the difference? It is what it is.
No matter how you slice it, a good deal is not good deal unless you need it.

Pimping and prostituting? That is exactly the way I felt when I was in the corporate structure.

I'm not sure if this is a good idea for everyone at all. Some will need backing and some will not. My point is that I just don't see the difference in backing and what MT is offering.
 
The Kid said:
What happens if the IPT folds after this year?
Does this guy keep paying the players a monthly salary?
I think he'll find a way to void the contracts or do a dissapearing act.


He can get out on a 30 day notice. They cannot. They may give 90 day notice prior to the end of the contract, which is typically three years! He's got 'em by the B----.

I suspect every contract (especially Sigel's) has different terms. Tang was able to renogtiate his before signing.
 
jay helfert said:
He can get out on a 30 day notice. They cannot. They may give 90 day notice prior to the end of the contract, which is typically three years! He's got 'em by the B----.

I suspect every contract (especially Sigel's) has different terms. Tang was able to renogtiate his before signing.

So if he signed Tang, he is signing non-IPT players to market. That makes me feel a little better,,,he will make nothing guaranteed on Tang unless he works to market him.
 
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