Mark Trainer. anyone know him?

[memikey]

I don't suppose anybody is absolutely clear yet as regards exactly how "guaranteed" the minimum of 100k that is to be paid by IPT to all 150 of the 2007 tour card holders actually is nor absolutely clear what proportion of it is likely to be made up of players cuts of licensing/endorsement fees etc but my general question is.......

Is it likely that the proposed player agency activities of Mark Trainer can happily co-exist with these arrangements being made by IPT?

 

[rackmsuckr]

Sometimes keeping things in perspective becomes very difficult, especially when one is personally involved. While this past tournament was certainly a major sporting event by pool standards, and the participants certainly earned and deserve the celebrity status that they are all enjoying, realizing that the general commercial appeal of the IPT and it's players is not exactly on the level of the World Series, the NBA, Micheal Jordan or Derek Jeter makes the motives of this person (agent) very suspect.

Look, while I am not an expert in this area, I don't believe that reputable, established sports agents and agencies generally operate in the manner that I have read in this thread. As best as I understand it, in sports where the players have contracts with teams, the agencies negotiate their player's salaries and bonuses, and sometimes, where salaries are not involved, event "show up fees" are sometimes arranged and negotiated for the very top players. For those very few marketable players that have that special public appeal, good agencies are able to arrange and negotiate advertising and endorsement contracts for a percentage of the contract. They certainly don't pursue every single player in a developing sport for a percentage of tournament prizes that the players are already entered and qualified into for a few lousy thousand bucks in advance. Unfortunately, at this stage of the sport, there is not any market for most pool players for endorsements of products outside of the pool world and advertisements for pool related products are limited to publications directed at pool enthusisits. This may, or may not, slowly change in the distant future. The point is that, as I read this thread, red flags and rockets are constanly going off.

Then, what really strikes me as very strange and unusual is that KT would grant someone, anyone, trying to place most of his players under this type of contract, unlimited access to them at one of his events. Can it be that KT has a vested, hidden interest in this venture?

We don't know that KT even knows ANYTHING about Mark Trainer and what he has been doing at the tournament. Heaven knows, he had enough other stuff to worry about, especially without Deno. For all he knows, Mark was just another fan.

As far as Mark paying for expenses up front and never recouping his losses, that is certainly a risk he is taking.

I would think that all players after being paid from the NAO, now have the funds to finance their Reno trips and after the payout in Reno, should have enough to finance their trips to London, so I don't really think even the ones who were destitute before couldn't make it.

It was probably a good thing for the players that they were paid on Sunday and that the checks couldn't be cashed, to ensure that they did have the funds to travel to future tourneys. KT is one smart cookie, lol!

 

[watchez]

KT had plenty going on but he had enough time to make sure that Jay Helfert was thrown out.

 

[Bill O]

KT had plenty going on but he had enough time to make sure that Jay Helfert was thrown out.

Just curious. Why was he thrown out?

 

[Keith Buck]

KT had plenty going on but he had enough time to make sure that Jay Helfert was thrown out.

Jay's name and photo might have been put on the "enemy of the IPT" watchlist prior to the tournament and security might have been able to act on their own.

Throwing him out sounded a little childish to me but what do I know.

 

[rackmsuckr]

Just curious. Why was he thrown out?

It was a disagreement about qualifier payouts that both sides felt they were justified on.

 

[jimmyg]

We don't know that KT even knows ANYTHING about Mark Trainer and what he has been doing at the tournament. Heaven knows, he had enough other stuff to worry about, especially without Deno. For all he knows, Mark was just another fan.

As far as Mark paying for expenses up front and never recouping his losses, that is certainly a risk he is taking.

I would think that all players after being paid from the NAO, now have the funds to finance their Reno trips and after the payout in Reno, should have enough to finance their trips to London, so I don't really think even the ones who were destitute before couldn't make it.

It was probably a good thing for the players that they were paid on Sunday and that the checks couldn't be cashed, to ensure that they did have the funds to travel to future tourneys. KT is one smart cookie, lol!

Yes Linda, I agree, KT IS one very smart cookie, that's exactly why I'm sure that he already knew about this agent and what he was trying to do with the players well before the tournament began. Certainly Mike S. and the other players that were contacted by him weeks before the tournament must have mentioned him to KT. Without KT's explicit approval, I believe that the agent would have asked to leave very quickly.

And the concern is definitely not for the agent, whether or not he recoups his few thousand dollar advances to the players is unimportant and not the issue, the concern is for the players that weren't able to get qualified legal advice and may have sold themselves short by getting involved with the wrong person, and also for this sport that doesn't need more questionable people and arrangements surrounding it. From what I've read, this just does not pass the smell test!!

 

[crosseyedjoe]

I must have misunderstood something because I was assuming that MT was taking 30% of the gross.

So in your example, MT would take 24,000 of the eighty thousand as his commission and then take the 48,000 advance repayment leaving the player with 8,000. The player would still have to pay taxes on the 56,000 (48,000+8,000) minus expenses incurred by the player(table time,billiard supplies,etc.)

That's what I'm worried about, defending on how the contract is drawn a player might end up owing the IRS more he actually pocketted. Plus as a managerial contract MT has to file those taxes too in behalf of the players.

And by the way the IRS taxes the person who gets the money using the gross amount. So the example player will be tax for 80,000.

 

[rackmsuckr]

It was a disagreement about qualifier payouts that both sides felt they were justified on.

I didn't want to say too much before, but I do know that it escalated from there and want to correct what I said before. There are plenty of people who disagree with the IPT who were there as spectators. It was the personal threats that he issued on this forum where he told Deno to run the other way when he saw him, and that KT would need his bodyguard when he saw him.

The IPT doesn't mind people who disagree with them, but they are not going to subject their staff, players, spectators, and KT to a guy who admittedly carries a firearm (another AZ post) and who issues physical threats on a public forum.

Even if Jay felt justified in his his own mind, physical threats can't be taken lightly and that is why he has been banned from IPT tournaments. I am just trying to set the record straight.

 

[JAM]

Things that make you go hmmmmm. I said it's a possibility and I ceraintly wouldn't be surprised to find out that KT is in on this. I'm not saying that he is, but I am saying that it's quite possible.

Hi, Tims! We're still en route to D.C. Are you heading to Valley Forge this weekend? We hit a rainstorm just outside of Indianapolis. So here we are. However, we're coming back home a different way than we left. I'm thinking we may meet an old pool croney in Morgantown, WV tomorrow, if we have time.

After talking to Mark Trainer, I am pretty sure that this player arrangement is his vision, and Kevin Trudeau does not have anything to do with the agency Athletes First or Mark Trainer as a player's agent.

We were watching skateboarding tonight at a restaurant, and I noticed that the players were wearing patches representing Red Bull and Right Guard. There was even a Right Guard commercial with a prominent skateboarder. If Mark Trainer is able to secure sponsors for the pool players, then they too will be wearing patches, much like these skateboarders. I believe that Mark Trainer is riding the IPT train, hoping to utilize the rising of pool as a sport to his advantage. He is definitely taking a financial risk, but most people I know who have gotten rich did so by taking risks.

I believe Mark Trainer has good intentions. I compare the salary to the pool players to a draw for an employed car salesman. If the car salesman sells cars, his draw comes off the top. However, if he doesn't sell any cars, he's at least guaranteed a monthly salary.

For the players who have signed, I am hoping for the best. Mark has expended six figures to players to date. I'll bet he'll be working very hard to secure prospective sponsors. That would be GREAT.

JAM

 

[Timberly]

We don't know that KT even knows ANYTHING about Mark Trainer and what he has been doing at the tournament. Heaven knows, he had enough other stuff to worry about, especially without Deno. For all he knows, Mark was just another fan.

If MS is involved with this Mark dude, you can bet your sweet ass KT, at the very minimum knows about this guy and who he is.

Then, what really strikes me as very strange and unusual is that KT would grant someone, anyone, trying to place most of his players under this type of contract, unlimited access to them at one of his events. Can it be that KT has a vested, hidden interest in this venture?

Truth be told, I'm a nit. Money has never been plentiful for me so I'm pretty tight when it comes to money but I'd definitely bet that KT is in on this in some way shape or form.

Do they have to pay the "salary" back if the player doesn't make enough money to cover the monthly payments? I'm assuming they don't and that is the risk that the agent is taking.

Considering EVERY player on the IPT is guaranteed x amount of dollars this yr, and more to come next yr, I don't think this guy is taking very much of a risk on the "salary".... If it turns out that KT is in fact involved, it's even less of a risk....

 

[Gabber]

??

JAM said,
"Each player's percentage ranking stays with him from tournament to tournament on the IPT tournament trail."

Are you sure? How would that work?

Gabber.........

 

[jay helfert]

I didn't want to say too much before, but I do know that it escalated from there and want to correct what I said before. There are plenty of people who disagree with the IPT who were there as spectators. It was the personal threats that he issued on this forum where he told Deno to run the other way when he saw him, and that KT would need his bodyguard when he saw him.

The IPT doesn't mind people who disagree with them, but they are not going to subject their staff, players, spectators, and KT to a guy who admittedly carries a firearm (another AZ post) and who issues physical threats on a public forum.

Even if Jay felt justified in his his own mind, physical threats can't be taken lightly and that is why he has been banned from IPT tournaments. I am just trying to set the record straight.

Linda, I want to thank you for "setting the record straight". Your use of "writer's liberties" in taking statements I made out of context, may get me nominated me for America's Most Wanted.

I suspect that if you were subjected to the profanity and expletives that Sir Deno greeted me with, you might have a problem reining in your husband. I know that Mike wouldn't put up with that kind of crap for a minute.

I for one, do not worship at the Church Of KT, as some on here obviously do. I wouldn't sell my soul for ten million dollars let alone ten thousand.
Glory to the IPT, but KT is a false God. This is a man who could care less about you and yours, or anyone else for that matter. He is in it for the money, plain and simple. Principles, honor, and integrity are not adjectives I would use to describe him.

Once again, I hope that many poolplayers are enriched by the IPT, while it exists. My purpose in posting an earlier thread regarding slow payment from the IPT, was to serve as a warning to not be so trustful of someone, just because they are dangling money in your face. All is not always as it appears.

I may be a lone wolf in the wilderness, but if that is my role, so be it. I will not bow down to a false idol!

 

[JAM]

JAM said,
"Each player's percentage ranking stays with him from tournament to tournament on the IPT tournament trail."

Are you sure? How would that work?

Gabber, I don't fully understand the IPT percentage ranking, G/L ratio, but I do know that it is THE measuring stick for who makes the top 100 for the 2007 season.

As in the individual tournaments, some players advanced to the next round based on their percentage ranking and/or G/L ratio.

Even if you lose a match in one tournament on the IPT, you will want to play your best to keep your percentages up. One fraction of a percentage point could be the determining factor of whether you advance to the next round AND maintain your IPT card.

There are four tournaments this season which will determine who keeps their card or, in the case of the qualifier players, who receives a card.

Two tournaments will have 50 qualifier players in them, the one we just had and the next one in Reno. The next two IPT tournaments this season, though, will be limited to the 150 IPT members, with no qualifier players. Some qualifier players who did well in Vegas, like Dave Matlock and Dee Adkins, may already be assured of their tour card next season because of their good play.

JAM

 

[JAM]

...I may be a lone wolf in the wilderness, but if that is my role, so be it. I will not bow down to a false idol!

Jay, just to set the record straight, you are a handsome lone wolf, my friend, and I'm sorry we didn't get to chat a bit more when I saw you briefly in passing.

I think the IPT is still experiencing growing pains, but I must say that the Vegas event, IMHO, went off without a hitch. I think Reno will also be successful.

I only wish your initial inquiry had been responded to promptly; thus, this whole bruhaha could have, and would have, been avoided. It is truly a bummer that this happened, especially to you, of all people.

JAM

 

[cdavis9771]

That's what I was looking for! A good of mine is emailing me from out there and here's what they had to say....

"There's a guy named Mark Trainer who's getting the players to sign some bizarre sort of contract, giving them $4,000 per month. But if they WIN any money, they not only give him 40% of it, they pay him back the $4,000. He's got over 20 players signed up already. The guy's bad news.

A lot of Filipinos signed because the contract is, of course, in English. The guy just LOOKS oily, though."

This is simply an outsiders observation. My friend isn't playing in the tournament so he wasn't approached. He's only there to spectate but he's friends with some players and this is what he was told.....

Wow! If your info is correct i can't belive that anyone would go for that. Sounds like the hustlers are getting hustled.

 

[satman]

It's not a matter of coming out ahead

At least you gave it some thought. I am a little confused on why people are upset that this Mark Trainer would do something that he would come out ahead on. Should he do it if he came out loser? Obviously he has to have something to gain by it. Him, being an agent for a pool player is a lot different if you were a baseball or football star. There is only one team, IPT, you can play for so there is no benefit in him negotiating that for you. But IF he can get a player any kind of endorsements on his own, that would be a big bonus. I don't really have an opinion if big endorsements will come the way of pool players just yet. For you personally, I can't say if you made the right decision of taking the guaranteed money or not. I have never seen Mike Z. play, only your opinion, and he did have a nice showing in the first tournament. How does Mike's game compare to 5 years ago? You might want to think how Mike might be playing 5 years from now and if he will still be able to compete at a high level. I am not being rude so please dont take this the wrong way, but he does not look like a spring chicken in his picture. The younger players will get better and there will be more of them too.

Yes, many attorneys make a lot of money just on the interest of the money they have in their escrow accounts. That is why they are always slow to disperse after a case is settled. Just think how much you can make if you show a balance of say $1,000,000 a month on your account.

My point about suing foreigners was that if a Filipino signed & now thought otherwise, what could Mark Trainer really sue them for. Also, a Filipino could always say that they didn't understand what they were signing and use the language barrier as a valid excuse to cancel the contract.

It's a matter of taking a part of the winnings, instead of what he has coming. He's working the numbers, just like an insurance company.
Here's an example: In the mid 80's, I was living with a very beautiful woman. She went to this modeling school {which we paid for these classes} for a few months and when she graduated, she was offered a contract. I went thru this contract and looked at what they were offering her. It basically said they would take a couple of her photo's and put them in this book with thousands of other girls and maybe someone would see her. They were not planning to try and find her any work, but if she got any type of modeling jobs thru anyone else or on her own, they got 15%. So if she got hired thru another agency and had to pay them and the first company too, she may get 60%.
These people were well known too and had a few big-time models for clients. But they were working the numbers.
As far as Alex goes, he has the right idea. 10% is generous. An agent should get paid on the endorsements he gets for you. PERIOD!!!!!! Just my opinion. Sam

 

[Snap9]

who has a pic of this Mark Trainer guy

The name sounds familiar so a pic would be great. If the same pic shows up with the name might be able to add some light onto the subject. Post a pic if you have one.

 

[Gabber]

I will not bow down to a false idol!

How dare you insult the Pool Messiah like that!
Just because he forced IPT players to attend a tournament[ on pain of ex-communication ][ also at their own expense{ zillionare cheapskate?}] that they weren,t even playing in.
Just because they postponed the tour by 6 months for no reason .
just because they seeded this tourny when they said they wouldn't.
Just because they didn't pay out when they said they would.
Just because the draw was done in seceret and MS got an easy draw.

BTW,
If I had been the IPT manager,
I would have bought you dinner and explained my side of the story and if I was out of order, I would have apologised . Afterwards, we would have shook hands, went our separate ways or we would go and shoot some pool and drink some beers. ...........................
.......................................................................and you would have come on this site and told everyone what a great guy I was and how it was all a misunderstanding or that there was a flap on , etc....make some excuses... "it can happen"' etc..............ie, good PR!

But no, MT is walking about trying to sign up players for a whole week and it takes them only 45 mins to throw you out! [ sorry Jay, I gotta laugh!]
Gabber.............

Just a note. The top 60 players in this tourny took 75% of the prizemoney. If Ef [ as an independant] is in the last group facing 5 players who are all under contract to the same guy, he will have to win ALL his matches or he is going to lose!
ie if a group of players working together can manipulate the result by working together for their common good.................and it is ALLOWED............

The whole format is open to corruption. Especially when the IPT make up the rules as they go along!

In any sport where big money is concerned, you have to take measures to make sure things are run fairly and are SEEN to have been done fairly.
In this respect, the IPT have failed miserably.


Gabber............






Gabber...............

 

[cuechick]

Sometimes keeping things in perspective becomes very difficult, especially when one is personally involved. While this past tournament was certainly a major sporting event by pool standards, and the participants certainly earned and deserve the celebrity status that they are all enjoying, realizing that the general commercial appeal of the IPT and it's players is not exactly on the level of the World Series, the NBA, Micheal Jordan or Derek Jeter makes the motives of this person (agent) very suspect.

Look, while I am not an expert in this area, I don't believe that reputable, established sports agents and agencies generally operate in the manner that I have read in this thread. As best as I understand it, in sports where the players have contracts with teams, the agencies negotiate their player's salaries and bonuses, and sometimes, where salaries are not involved, event "show up fees" are sometimes arranged and negotiated for the very top players. For those very few marketable players that have that special public appeal, good agencies are able to arrange and negotiate advertising and endorsement contracts for a percentage of the contract. They certainly don't pursue every single player in a developing sport for a percentage of tournament prizes that the players are already entered and qualified into for a few lousy thousand bucks in advance. Unfortunately, at this stage of the sport, there is not any market for most pool players for endorsements of products outside of the pool world and advertisements for pool related products are limited to publications directed at pool enthusisits. This may, or may not, slowly change in the distant future. The point is that, as I read this thread, red flags and rockets are constanly going off.

Then, what really strikes me as very strange and unusual is that KT would grant someone, anyone, trying to place most of his players under this type of contract, unlimited access to them at one of his events. Can it be that KT has a vested, hidden interest in this venture?

I agree with your comment, well put, red flags everywhere!
Also I am 99% certain the deal he offered Marlon is very different from the deal we heard about from Alex on down. By signing up a few "show horses" he hopes to attract the rest of the pack. I'd be surprised if he is getting any percentage of his or Mike S's winnings.
With Marlon esp, he really can make some money on endorsements esp in the Philippines...
I just feel he is hoping to take advantage of all the excitement around the IPT and naive pool-players who have never had these kind of opportunities...