Marketing 101

lodini

lodini

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I know the sponsorship debate has been hashed out over and over on here... and whether pool should be compared on a level to that of MLB or NFL... so check out this article... for a sport to which we may be able to compare ourselves. A non-mainstream, niche activity... who's professional organization seems to know WTF they are doing!! Wow:-)

Taken from NY Times article... link below...

"Bull riding counts its season as January through November, so now is the time that executives at Professional Bull Riders are lining up sponsorship deals. Since the sport is new to TV, the prices are low. National packages ? which can include ringside signs, tour title sponsorships and media time ? cost $1 million to $2 million, according to Sean Gleason, chief marketing officer of the Professional Bull Riders. On the lower end, an advertiser might buy local exposure for $500,000 or less, he said."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/11/business/media/11adco.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

(By the way, in case you don't read down that far... it says the tour is looking at about $25million in sponorships this year!)
 
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lodini said:
I know the sponsorship debate has been hashed out over and over on here... and whether pool should be compared on a level to that of MLB or NFL... so check out this article... for a sport to which we may be able to compare ourselves. A non-mainstream, niche activity... who's professional organization seems to know WTF they are doing!! Wow:-)

Taken from NY Times article... link below...

"Bull riding counts its season as January through November, so now is the time that executives at Professional Bull Riders are lining up sponsorship deals. Since the sport is new to TV, the prices are low. National packages ? which can include ringside signs, tour title sponsorships and media time ? cost $1 million to $2 million, according to Sean Gleason, chief marketing officer of the Professional Bull Riders. On the lower end, an advertiser might buy local exposure for $500,000 or less, he said."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/11/business/media/11adco.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

(By the way, in case you don't read down that far... it says the tour is looking at about $25million in sponorships this year!)
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hmm...looks to me like they have ONE dominant organization in bull riding. I think pool is better because they have 37 dominant organizations.
 
Thanks, Lodini, for a pretty interestng read, but I don't see your point. The article indicates that, at present, the demand is there for bull riding, with an impressive live attendance of 1.6 million, a number completely unimaginable in the world of pool.

That their association seeks contracts and sponsorships at this time of year is not any different from some of our pool organizations, but they have a product with verifiable demand and enviable demographics, and the rates they can expect/demand from sponsors and advertisers reflect it.

However, the article does not explore how that demand in those demographics was built up, or how bull riding was successfully marketed to the American public. For this reason, I'm not sure it offers any clues as to how pool should be marketed. It is more about how a product for which there is already significant and growing demand is sold. Pro pool, at least for the moment, in not this kind of product.
 
Maybe if the table jumped up and stomped the crap out of anyone who missed a shot...
 
sjm said:
Thanks, Lodini, for a pretty interestng read, but I don't see your point. The article indicates that, at present, the demand is there for bull riding, with an impressive live attendance of 1.6 million, a number completely unimaginable in the world of pool.

That their association seeks contracts and sponsorships at this time of year is not any different from some of our pool organizations, but they have a product with verifiable demand and enviable demographics, and the rates they can expect/demand from sponsors and advertisers reflect it.

However, the article does not explore how that demand in those demographics was built up, or how bull riding was successfully marketed to the American public. For this reason, I'm not sure it offers any clues as to how pool should be marketed. It is more about how a product for which there is already significant and growing demand is sold. Pro pool, at least for the moment, in not this kind of product.
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Pro pool may not be yet, but pool definitely is. With over a quarter-million sponsors in the APA and fifty-thousand in the BCA, pool has significant buying power. Where does the money go?
 
$25 Million in sponsorship? Sounds as if they are united to see that their sport succeeds for everyone instead of slashing each other's throats so that very few can succeed individually. A sport experiencing financial success due to cooperation and unity ...

:confused:

Hmmmm... imagine that.

:rolleyes:
 
sjm said:
Thanks, Lodini, for a pretty interestng read, but I don't see your point. The article indicates that, at present, the demand is there for bull riding, with an impressive live attendance of 1.6 million, a number completely unimaginable in the world of pool.

That their association seeks contracts and sponsorships at this time of year is not any different from some of our pool organizations, but they have a product with verifiable demand and enviable demographics, and the rates they can expect/demand from sponsors and advertisers reflect it.

However, the article does not explore how that demand in those demographics was built up, or how bull riding was successfully marketed to the American public. For this reason, I'm not sure it offers any clues as to how pool should be marketed. It is more about how a product for which there is already significant and growing demand is sold. Pro pool, at least for the moment, in not this kind of product.
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it is a well documented fact that people like train wrecks or the likes thereof. bull riding offers the sick opportunity to see danger in the works and a possible major catastrophe for a few bucks. but, that doesn't explain why there are so many sponsors in golf.
 
Blackjack said:
Sounds as if they are united to see that their sport succeeds for everyone instead of slashing each other's throats so that very few can succeed individually. A sport experiencing financial success due to cooperation and unity ...

:confused:
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I don't see any evidence of cooperation or unity based on the article. To conclude that there is unity just because the results are there is pure speculation.
 
sjm said:
Thanks, Lodini, for a pretty interestng read, but I don't see your point. The article indicates that, at present, the demand is there for bull riding, with an impressive live attendance of 1.6 million, a number completely unimaginable in the world of pool.

That their association seeks contracts and sponsorships at this time of year is not any different from some of our pool organizations, but they have a product with verifiable demand and enviable demographics, and the rates they can expect/demand from sponsors and advertisers reflect it.

However, the article does not explore how that demand in those demographics was built up, or how bull riding was successfully marketed to the American public. For this reason, I'm not sure it offers any clues as to how pool should be marketed. It is more about how a product for which there is already significant and growing demand is sold. Pro pool, at least for the moment, in not this kind of product.
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The point of posting was to show that even the non-mainstream sports can and have been successful at marketing themselves to the masses. They've got themselves TV deals and major money coming in. It didn't happen overnight and it probably took a lot of work and obviously, a unified organization of professionals to make it happen.

At least, in my opinion, I believe that the sport of pool is behind the 8 ball, so to speak. It seems to me that with the millions of people playing pool, it COULD be marketed successfully to the American public. It just isn't done well right now.

Bull Riding wasn't always "a product for which there is already significant and growing demand"... the PBR made it that way.

Most importantly, I was just offering food for thought... that if a sport like bull riding (not that there's anything wrong with that) can develop itself into a pretty big entity... why can't pool?

"For this reason, I'm not sure it offers any clues as to how pool should be marketed." As soon as the WPBA, the IPT, NACPBA or whatever hires me as Marketing Director/Sponsorship Sales, I'll take care of it:-)
 
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lodini said:
The point of posting was to show that even the non-mainstream sports can and have been successful at marketing themselves to the masses.
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Right on. It is an uplifting story, and can serve as an inspiration for pool.
 
I have to say apples and oranges

When we look at the net at the end of the year, around 1980 pro bull riding and pro pool paid about the same dollar for dollar net at the end of the year. High expenses to compete seriously, low purses. Rodeo in general and bull riding hooked onto a movie or two and the country music tie-in in particular and never let go. Once regular television started, the race to the bank was on.

However there are some very big differences between bull riding and pool. First off, it is a one on one event which I think is an easier sale. It is marketed as one man against one bull, not the riders against each other. The other thing is that the eight seconds after the gate opens may be the most exciting eight seconds in sports. Slow motion replays stretch that to a minute or so. Another thing is that the outcome is up in the air until the last instant and even after riding eight seconds the cowboy still has to make it to the ground and away from the bull in one piece.

With pool we don't seem to focus enough on one on one competition, the excitement level just isn't there, and most people feel they usually know the outcome well before the match is over.

I don't think pool can be compared to bull riding, but I think it can be compared to bowling and bowling fares far better than pool. Bowlers were playing for next to nothing in the seventies or eighties too and they have slowly grown to very good TV exposure and tours that support decent life styles.

Pool needs a hook but even after finding a hook we need real substance to give the public and sponsors bang for their buck. I don't have the answers but I like BlackJack's idea of evening events that look more like a night at the fights with undercards and a main event. I also like the idea of large stacks of cash or chips on the tables and even if chips clearly represent points if needed to accommodate local gaming laws, pass the chips back and forth after games or sets. Still thinking here but how about if the live audience could be polled on who the winner would be before each match? Get the audience more involved, at the events and at home too.

Hu



lodini said:
The point of posting was to show that even the non-mainstream sports can and have been successful at marketing themselves to the masses. They've got themselves TV deals and major money coming in. It didn't happen overnight and it probably took a lot of work and obviously, a unified organization of professionals to make it happen.

At least, in my opinion, I believe that the sport of pool is behind the 8 ball, so to speak. It seems to me that with the millions of people playing pool, it COULD be marketed successfully to the American public. It just isn't done well right now.

Bull Riding wasn't always "a product for which there is already significant and growing demand"... the PBR made it that way.

Most importantly, I was just offering food for thought... that if a sport like bull riding (not that there's anything wrong with that) can develop itself into a pretty big entity... why can't pool?
Click to expand...
 
sjm said:
Thanks, Lodini, for a pretty interestng read, but I don't see your point. The article indicates that, at present, the demand is there for bull riding, with an impressive live attendance of 1.6 million, a number completely unimaginable in the world of pool. ...
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Hey, all we have to do is organize 20,000 tournaments a year.

In a strange connection, they now have bull riding in the same arena in Asbury Park, NJ where the World Pool Championships (14.1) were held in 1976-1977. I suspect the stands are fuller for the bull riding. See http://www.sportsshooter.com/port_popup.html?mem_id=6722&i_id=609974
 
Frankly I've always considered pro rodeo to be a mid-level pro sport, but I think that this depends on where one is from .... here in the prairies pro rodeo events are common ... having said that I've never been to the Greatest Outdoor Show On Earth (the Calgary Stampede).

Dave
 
I think we beating around the bush, ignoring the big elephant in the room. Bull Riding, bowling, or virutally any other sport I can think of is ONE SPORT. Its one game, one whatever, with ONE governing body. Our problem is, and will always be our problem is that, we have different games within one game, no other successful sport has that. We could talk about poker having even more variations than pool, but then we are off a much much longer dicussion. As far as things you do physically pool is just a different animal. We need one governing body, until then, nothing we say or even do will matter.
 
sjm said:
I don't see any evidence of cooperation or unity based on the article. To conclude that there is unity just because the results are there is pure speculation.
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In 1992 20 bull riders pooled their money and decided to make bull-riding, the most popular event at rodeos, a stand-alone sport. The riders were dissatisfied over the disparity of payouts vs. number of spectators they were bringing in as opposed to the other events in rodeo.

These 20 members agreed not to participate in local rodeos, and teamed with a marketing group to establish their own events. Other riders joined along the way, and PBR became the dominant force in the sport.

The same could happen for pool if tournaments/leagues could combine.
 
All of these sports have a points/ranking system and an annual major final competition for which only the highest ranked are eligible.

American pool, lacking cohesion, hasn't a pray.

Even the oddest sports can be big business. Canada has a profession chuckwagon racing circuit. racing every day of the week during the season.

Wagons have sponsors, and the finals at the Calgary Stampede go for very big bucks. But the costs are big too - Four horses on the wagon, four outriders, a second string, plus horses in training, recovering from sickness and injuries, or just resting an rejuvinating - 40 horses minimun per wagon.

In contrast, care and feeding of a pool player is peanuts.:D
 
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The issues, as I see'em, with comparing pool to other sports:

1) Spectating - all (as best I can tell) of the other sports mentioned, can be watched from a DISTANCE. Meaning, you can cram a lot of people into a large arena/stadium. Pool, not so much. What's the maximum distance you can be from the table and still see what's going on reasonably well? 50 feet or so? That severly limits the number of spectators.

2) Physicality - compared to other sports, pool is DULL to watch. Guy standing there, practically 100% still, shooting a ball, oftimes very softly. Football, Hockey, etc - the players are MOVING, hitting each other, whacking the stuffing out of whatever object, etc. It's much more exhilirating to watch. Plus, fans jump and yell and get into it - do that during a pool match and you'll get ejected.
 
ScottW said:
The issues, as I see'em, with comparing pool to other sports:

1) Spectating - all (as best I can tell) of the other sports mentioned, can be watched from a DISTANCE. Meaning, you can cram a lot of people into a large arena/stadium. Pool, not so much. What's the maximum distance you can be from the table and still see what's going on reasonably well? 50 feet or so? That severly limits the number of spectators.

2) Physicality - compared to other sports, pool is DULL to watch. Guy standing there, practically 100% still, shooting a ball, oftimes very softly. Football, Hockey, etc - the players are MOVING, hitting each other, whacking the stuffing out of whatever object, etc. It's much more exhilirating to watch. Plus, fans jump and yell and get into it - do that during a pool match and you'll get ejected.
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Golf? Just mentioning, the exact same argument could be made that golf can not compare to other sports, but it continues to bring in massive revenue.
 
iba7467 said:
Golf? Just mentioning, the exact same argument could be made that golf can not compare to other sports, but it continues to bring in massive revenue.
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Golf allows for tons of spectators to line the course. Plus, the golf marketing machine has been going for a looooong time. It would take decades for a similar pool marketing effort to reach that critical mass, assuming the spectator-size issue wasn't there.
 
Where can you find the stats on the number of regular pool players in each state? By regular I mean those who play at least once per week.
 
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