Measuring Break Speed
- Thread starter 9 ball
- Start date
Measure the distance from the cue ball to the rack. Be as exact as possible. Get a stopwatch and have someone record the time it takes from when you hit the cue ball to when the cue ball hits the rack. Divide 5280 by the distance you measured. Take the quotient and multiply it by the time you measured. That will give you how long it takes to go one mile. Divide 60 by that number which will give you your miles/minute. Multiply that by 60 and you'll have your mph. This is really a grade school math problem...
If you want to get really fancy without buying a radar gun, you can add infrared beams at both ends of the table to trip the clock. This will take out the reaction time of the person using the stopwatch.
Another alternative is to move your table out by the road and have someone drive their car by at a certain speed while you are breaking. Have them keep increasing by one mile an hour at a time until they exactly match your break speed. It might help to have an observer watching the car and ball to see when they match. Be sure to get a good driver as you don't want them to ruin your table by running into it. Perhaps if they dangled a flag on a stick out the window so that it was directly over the table when they went by, it would be easier to judge the relative speeds. Just keep your head down so you don't get whacked in the back of your skull.
If you want to get really fancy without buying a radar gun, you can add infrared beams at both ends of the table to trip the clock. This will take out the reaction time of the person using the stopwatch.
Another alternative is to move your table out by the road and have someone drive their car by at a certain speed while you are breaking. Have them keep increasing by one mile an hour at a time until they exactly match your break speed. It might help to have an observer watching the car and ball to see when they match. Be sure to get a good driver as you don't want them to ruin your table by running into it. Perhaps if they dangled a flag on a stick out the window so that it was directly over the table when they went by, it would be easier to judge the relative speeds. Just keep your head down so you don't get whacked in the back of your skull.
Last edited:
9 ball said:
I don't have the number off hand, but Bert Kinister used a devise in one of his videos "the break rack" it read in huge numbers. He said you can order it from him, as well as the "break Rack" breaking tool. If you are interested PM me and I'll pop the video in and get the number.
Come on, go easy on him/her, I thought it was kind of funny.
It was not my intention to make an idiot of you. (Not sure how I would do that.) It was just a joke for the group, not aimed at you personally. There are other people besides cops that have radar guns. I'm not sure where you are located but some pool instructors have radar guns and pretty much any baseball organization will have one (little league, Babe Ruth, etc.) that you might be able to borrow. I would question why you want to know bad enough to look for other alternatives. Unless you are going for the record, speed isn't as important as accuracy and cue ball control. Anyone should be able to break the balls well and control the cue ball at 10 to 15 mph below whatever the maximum speed ever recorded is. I took some lessons once and had my break speed recorded. It was between 14 and 19 mph. What we found was that the harder/faster I tried to break, the less control I had. I don't have any idea what your skill level is or how long you've been playing, but my opinion is that until you obtain a pretty high skill level, most of one's efforts should be spent on control rather than speed as regards the break.
Again, sorry if you took offense at my earlier attempt at humor...
Oh yeah, and for your personal information, can't is a contraction for can not. There is no such word as canno't.
Again, sorry if you took offense at my earlier attempt at humor...
Oh yeah, and for your personal information, can't is a contraction for can not. There is no such word as canno't.
Last edited:
You can take the end rail off the table and measure where the CB hits the ground or how high it hits the wall. You could also do it off a bench of similar height to a pool table outside.
Take the approrpriate measurements accurately and some physics nerd here can likely do the appropriate calculations.
btw: I doubt a video recorder will be much good unless you have a camera that shoots over 100 frames per second.
Take the approrpriate measurements accurately and some physics nerd here can likely do the appropriate calculations.
btw: I doubt a video recorder will be much good unless you have a camera that shoots over 100 frames per second.
bsmutz said:
I agree; Most here play for fun or for amusement. A select few play for their livelihood and family. But I think everyone is here to to be entertained, enlightened, informed, educated, etc. If people are making a few funnies (I laughed pretty hard) then I say that's a good thing.
Colin Colenso said:
Hi Colin:
A regular camcorder in the past 15 years all capture video at 30 frames per second. Technically there are 2 "fields" per second. If you know how to bring the footage into DV editing softwares such as Final Cut or Premier, you can "sort of" split each frame into 2 fields and double the frame count (30 frames per second >> 60 frames per second).
Most of consumer DV cameras over $700 today have high speed recording options (1/250 or faster).
Also, cameras come with progressive scan features will deliver much better images for captures stuffs like this.
Technology really has moved fast in the past few years.
side note:
I have tried this with a friend maybe 5 years ago even though we shot the video not for speed testing reason. Throughout the experiment, we learned a 9 ball max power break is actually a "Jump Shot". From a side view, the QB were off table for a while after tip contact. Where it lands depends on the storke. Ideally, it lands right before the 1 ball to release the most effecient power. (see page 1 in the diagram below) If the timing is off and QB lands on the 1 ball, it would fly off the table (page 2)
9 ball break analysis (2 pages)
Cheers
Wei
btw, I am not a geeky guy at all, really. but i am always curious about things
Last edited:
This technique was described in Robert Byrne's "Advanced Technique in Pool and Billiards" book. The shooters in the experiment were Byrne, Shamos, Tony Annigoni and a local pool hall owner. Various cues were used, and various balls including ivory billiard balls. I was the recorder for the experiment.Colin Colenso said:
The ball doesn't go that far beyond the end of the table. For a 30-inch-high table, figure probably no more than 180 inches (15 feet). Alternatively, if the ball hits a wall first, the height of the spot on the wall will give the answer. If the OP records the height of the table and the distance away from the end of the table that the ball hits the ground, it's really, really easy to find the speed of the ball as it leaves the table.
A quick froogle search reveals radar guns for around $85. Other than a high speed video camera (which would cost much more), that's probably your best bet.
The only way I could see this as being an effective practice tool is to gain consistency in your break, not to try to achieve maximum speed. If you were going to do this, it would also be extremely helpful if you had a spotted cue ball or broke with a striped ball so you could see the rotation on the cue after the break.
The only way I could see this as being an effective practice tool is to gain consistency in your break, not to try to achieve maximum speed. If you were going to do this, it would also be extremely helpful if you had a spotted cue ball or broke with a striped ball so you could see the rotation on the cue after the break.
Colin Colenso said:
At 20 mph it will take almost four full frames for the cue ball to go from spot to spot if I am doing it correctly in my head. If you remove the rack and put say a pillow at the end of the table to stop the cue ball to give you more frames to use to make the calculation you would get a very accurate measurement, timing it is the only way to do it, that's what the radar gun is doing just in a different way. The problem is, you don't know that the cue ball is not still accelerating when it pass were the 1 ball would be and you get want would be a faster speed measurement then if you only shot to where the balls are racked.
cuetable said:side note:
I have tried this with a friend maybe 5 years ago even though we shot the video not for speed testing reason. Throughout the experiment, we learned a 9 ball max power break is actually a "Jump Shot". From a side view, the QB were off table for a while after tip contact. Where it lands depends on the storke. Ideally, it lands right before the 1 ball to release the most effecient power. (see page 1 in the diagram below) If the timing is off and QB lands on the 1 ball, it would fly off the table (page 2)
9 ball break analysis (2 pages)
Cheers
Wei
btw, I am not a geeky guy at all, really. but i am always curious about things
Let me lead this out by saying that I thought this out once and the following conclusion is what I came to.
I would assume that the laws of physics dictate that to achieve maximum power in a break, you would need the cue ball to hit the one ball at a zero degree angle and be in a skid when it hits. If the cue ball hits off center or is rolling at all in any direction, there is going to be some friction between the two balls causing the cue ball to throw the one ball. This should decrease overall power distribution as the cue ball will be in contact with the one ball for a longer period of time. When in a complete skid and a direct center hit, the cue ball should bounce straight back from where it came from and have the least amount of time in contact with the one ball. The faster the energy from the cue ball's momentum is dispersed to the one ball, in theory, the more power you will transfer to the one ball. I only wish that I had a bunch of high speed camera equipment to test this out and see if there is any truth behind it.
Please note that the best break may not be the break that gives you maximum power. If you can always make a ball, see the one ball, and proceed to run out, the break was good enough.
NotYou said:
Just to add or whatever to these two thoughts. At the SBE at VF, at the BreakRAK booth, we were doing some demonstrations using the Rempe Practice Ball. It showed that everyone who dead squat the cueball with a flat break (one that didn't jump as high) had a touch of follow on the ball, even if they aimed super low. Every ball that was hit did center, the cueball traveled back to the head of the table.
Some people were able to "sort of" squat the ball, (even though there was still a trace of it fighting/crawling to make it back to the head rail) and hit about as dead center of the cueball as you try, but only if the cueball jumped pretty high off the table.
In either case, neither would be the maximum power, since the first style has a touch of follow, and the second needs a high hit on the object ball.
Also, some pros say that if you're breaking hard and one of the top two balls aren't frozen, then on a solid table like the Diamond tables, jumping the cueball off the table will happen more often. I think this makes some sense.
Fred
jsp said:
I am no scientist, but logic tells me that if you strike the CB off center the energy from the cue is transferred into the spin of the ball instead of the forward momentum.
To create the same forward momentum a ball stuck below center would take more cue velocity...Now if you take the same cue velocity and strike the CB in the center, the CB will have "more" forward velocity.
In short the same cue speed struck off center will produce a slower moving CB and less power at impact.
Back to the origional post... All you really need to do is find your nearest motorcycle cop...drive by him a 120 miles per hour holding up a CB out the window as you drive by......He will get the hint and follow you home....(he may even turn on his lights for you)...When you get home you will need to move quick because the COP will be in a bit of a hurry...Run back to your pool room as fast as you can....The cop WILL follow...When you get back to your pool room stop and wait...He will be very happy to see you and may even tackle you to the ground to give you a hug...
After he gives you a hug he will want to take you to HIS house...Right before you go...(since he is already there) ask if you can borrow his radar gun to measure your CB speed...
OR..IF that is too much..
Just let me know when you want me to come over and watch you break...I can eye it within +or- 1mph...
Last edited:
Um....Chronograph?
Take the plastic sun covers off (they just slip on) and turn it upside down on the table where the 1-ball would be. Then convert from fps to mph.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=244882
Take the plastic sun covers off (they just slip on) and turn it upside down on the table where the 1-ball would be. Then convert from fps to mph.
http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=244882