JC
Coos Cues
If I decide to get my table Cobraized what type of flux should I have on hand for Glen to use?
JC
Mechanics... Diomond Tables
- Thread starter chalkdust
- Start date
If I decide to get my table Cobraized what type of flux should I have on hand for Glen to use?
JC
I'll add this: (for Mr. Chalkdust)
The fabric "control strip" does just what the name says: it controls the rubber.
It helps to keep a cushion aligned straight (important with softer rubber) and it adds resistance or 'stiffness' to the cushion.
Logic would dictate that since carom balls are heavier and larger, they are less likely to get pinched (no need for 'round side' down) and will consequently need more stiffness on the "bottom" portion of the cushion, because the wooden subrail is closest to the ball near the bottom = the point at which contact is most likely to occur during a hard hit.
This should at least help to understand why the fabric side is down on the artemis intercontinental
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The way I understand it / my logic...
All cushins are designed to make contact with the ball below the equater of said ball. (with exception of flat nosed snooker cushins)
When a ball strikes a carom cushin the fabric controls the energy from front to back and with no fabric on top the nose of the rubber is free to rise. This allows some of the energy to dissipate away frome the table.
When a ball strikes a pool cushin the fabric controls the enregy from top to bottom now the nose is not as free to rise so more of the energy stays at the table. The side effect of this is the pinch between the cushin and the bed, this is why pool tables tend to play shorter than carom tables.
The Artemis Intercontinental No.66 is designed as a carom (streight rail billiard) cushin with the fabric on the bottom. Any ball striking a three sided cushin has some form of "pinch" because it makes contact above the equater. Now if we put the fabric on top restricting the upward movement and we have a rounded bottom the pinch is exaggerated not reduced. This is the reason for the funny hop, the ball is rebounding off the bed.
If this were true, why did Diamond not put the control fabric on the flat side of thier black cushin? I believe it is a K55 profile.
Do you call a 1 29/64"ths cushion nose height below the equator, since the equator of a 2 1/4" ball is 1 1/8" inches...is that what you're saying?
That's twice now you've said this, I'd really like an explanation of what you're calling the equator of a ball
Best pics I've found comparing Artemis cushions. Better than Artemis or Muellers website.
http://www.billiardbuyersgroup.com/products/pool_table_rubber/
http://www.billiardbuyersgroup.com/products/pool_table_rubber/
From BCA:
"Rubber cushions should be triangular in shape and molded with the conventional K-66 profile with a base of 1 3/16" and a nose height of 1", with control fabric molded to the top and base area of the cushion. On carom billiard tables, the triangular k-55 profile cushion is to be maintained, with the control fabric on the underside of the cushion to effect a slower rebound action."
"Rubber cushions should be triangular in shape and molded with the conventional K-66 profile with a base of 1 3/16" and a nose height of 1", with control fabric molded to the top and base area of the cushion. On carom billiard tables, the triangular k-55 profile cushion is to be maintained, with the control fabric on the underside of the cushion to effect a slower rebound action."
The optimum height for the cushion nose, as determined by people who have studied these things for well over 100 years, is 63.5% of the balls height. (+/-1%)
Obviously this is well above the equator.
Something to think about from Dr. Dave's website:
Q: Why is the height of the rail cushion nose not at the center of the ball?
Here is the rail cushion nose height specification, as dictated by the WPA:
"Rail height (nose-line to table-bed) should be 63 ½% (+1 %) or between 62 ½% and 64 ½ % of the diameter of the ball."
If the cushion nose height were at the ball center (0.5D), instead, rebounding balls would slide more and would hop significantly if they come into the cushion with topspin (especially at fast speed).
Another obvious height would be at the "center of percussion" of the ball (0.7D), per TP 4.2, so the rebounding balls would tend to roll away from the rails more naturally. However, this height would tend to drive a rebounding ball down into the table, which would tend to slow the ball more, accelerate cloth wear (and faster formation of a "rail groove"), and cause the rebounding ball to hop.
The WPA 0.635D offers a good compromise between the 0.5D and 0.7D values. This height was determined empirically to result good rebound performance without too much ball hop or cloth wear. "
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............space for rent........
Post
I seen/heard this snooka ball hop off a rail at a low speed, I'd say it hopped off the bed cloth rather than the cushion. The snooker cushion is flat noised so where's the hop take place? Humidity from the crowd cause the ball to hop off the cloth on a rebound?
In the time of 1:40:18 or so the hop takes place. What happined?
http://youtu.be/SeS5iJ04U-4
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Rob.M
I seen/heard this snooka ball hop off a rail at a low speed, I'd say it hopped off the bed cloth rather than the cushion. The snooker cushion is flat noised so where's the hop take place? Humidity from the crowd cause the ball to hop off the cloth on a rebound?
In the time of 1:40:18 or so the hop takes place. What happined?
http://youtu.be/SeS5iJ04U-4
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Rob.M
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My bad, I ment to say above the equater.
Good question, I do not know.
I suppose the hop goes away because now the "pinch" is like any other cushin now. I am just supposing, I'm no rail tech but I do know the nose height does not change. With the round side up the profile looks like any other K55 cushin.
I have tried to tell you over and over again, there's a lot of reasons balls can hop off the rails, even when the cushions are mounted as YOU yourself would mount them, it's NOT always the cushions at fault. If you want to test my point, any table that has the balls hop off the cushions, take some Armorall and spray it on a rag, then wipe the cushions down with it, it's invisible so you won't see anything on the cushions. What that will do is break any friction taking place on against the nose of the cushions, and the hop will STOP right away. That's a free tip for you
You don't really know all the much do you. Brunswick on their billiard tables, turn their K55 super speed cushions upside down...why? I'll give you a hint, there's an 1/8" difference in nose height when their cushions are turned over and mounted. One major difference between a billiard K55 cushion and a K55 cushion for playing pool, that is the more rounded nose used on the billiard cushions vs a more pointed nose on pool cushions. I do hope for your sake, your partner is more aware of being a table mechanic in this industry, as I don't think you'd do very well on your own. Asking a lot of questions and why's in this business is a sure sign of not knowing to much about it, or just learning, which is about the same thing
Glen
If the k55 cushion profile was perfectly symmetrical, the nose height wouldnt change if you flipped them, but its not.
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You don't really know all the much do you. Brunswick on their billiard tables, turn their K55 super speed cushions upside down...why? I'll give you a hint, there's an 1/8" difference in nose height when their cushions are turned over and mounted. One major difference between a billiard K55 cushion and a K55 cushion for playing pool, that is the more rounded nose used on the billiard cushions vs a more pointed nose on pool cushions. I do hope for your sake, your partner is more aware of being a table mechanic in this industry, as I don't think you'd do very well on your own. Asking a lot of questions and why's in this business is a sure sign of not knowing to much about it, or just learning, which is about the same thing
Glen
Please tell us when Brunswick installed K55 Super speed up side down I have never seen this. What year carom tables??? Please enlighten me...
