Mika

[JAM]

Usually, when laymen say "made $30K" they mean net profit i.e. after all costs/ expenses. The sales/revenue/collections (from ppv, advertising , sponsorship etc) would have to be more maybe $60K or more. Basically the prizemoney was entry fees from 40+ players + added money $4K so players were just paying themselves.
Of cos, promoter has to make money and cannot do this pro bono but if it is true that promoter made profit of $30K and only added/contributed $4K to prizemoney that sounds very disproportionate.
All this is prompting Darren to start his own Dynamite Productions (DP) 8 ball tour. So now we have another DP in addition to other DP (Dragon Promotions)

I don't think Earl and Darren would be considered "laymen" in the pool industry.

The question still remains unanswered to my satisfaction, but then again, frankly, it's none of my business. As soon as everybody got paid and the tournament rules were adhered to, it's okay.

It would be like me charging a fee for my product, and then after the fact, the person I sold it to complained how much profit I made, even though they like my product before, during, and after. Hey, that's business!

 

[Ken_4fun]

JAM...To keep the story accurate, after her brother passed away (he was in charge of the company), Janet Shimel tried to keep the company going for another couple of years. After that, she decided to retire, and sold J&S Sales (Cuetec importer) to Mike at Imperial. Earl had a multiyear contract with J&S, but after the deal was done, Earl was called in and fired. The contract was torn up, and Mike invited Earl to try to sue him. LOL There was no love lost between Mike and Earl. Now SVB has Earl's deal with Cuetec.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

That was what I had heard too. Earl was known to "bad mouth" Cuetec even though he was sponsored by them Not the brightest thing to do.

I would much rather have SVB and Allison Fisher represent my products in a professional manner than Earl "bad mouth" them in public.

Ken

 

[Cardigan Kid]

In the Earl v. Jayson match, I wondered why Earl didn't slice the 15 in the side pocket instead of the 10 -- or was it 2? -- in the corner.

Cleary said these tables had really tight side pockets, and he was right, according to this snippet: The Rasson TV table has super tight side pockets but the players have adjusted to it – Strickland ran a 135 and out on the table while Immonen had two runs in the fifties and a 69 and out in his semifinal match. Today’s final match is to 300 points, so they will likely be playing at least 35-40 racks. We should therefore be treated to every kind of layout imaginable, and we should see a mix of every kind of scenario, from long runs to defensive battles for the table.

Hey, is that the sleeping referee on the sidelines? He's awake for this one.

Photo courtesy of Joe Ratke.

What's the deal with that new table?
Is that a European brand?

I thought Steinway was all gold crowns - was this table brought in special for the event by a sponsor or has Steinway installed a new streaming table??

Thanks in advance for any information.

 

[Kim Bye]

What's the deal with that new table?
Is that a European brand?

I thought Steinway was all gold crowns - was this table brought in special for the event by a sponsor or has Steinway installed a new streaming table??

Thanks in advance for any information.

It's a Chinese brand. They have started sponsoring quite few events.

 

[AtLarge]

... What's the deal with that new table?
Is that a European brand?

I thought Steinway was all gold crowns - was this table brought in special for the event by a sponsor or has Steinway installed a new streaming table??

Thanks in advance for any information.[/QUOTE]

Rasson is a Chinese company -- slate and tables. They were one of the sponsors of the World 14.1 event. Their table apparently was supposed to be in place at Steinway at the start of the event for the streamed matches, but damage in shipping prevented that. By the time replacement parts arrived and the table was installed, it was Day 5 (Friday).

The table apparently had 4½" corner pockets and 4 3/8" sides. I don't recall ever before seeing a full-size table with the mouths of the side pockets smaller than the mouths of the corner pockets.

I think Steinway was offering that streaming table for sale to the public.

Rasson (replacing Diamond) will also be the table for all Matchroom Sport pool events for the next 3 years -- Mosconi Cup, World Cup of Pool, and World Pool Masters: [url]http://www.azbilliards.com/news/stories/12771-rasson-announced-as-new-matchroom-pool-table-supplier/[/url]. It will be interesting to see whether the tables for those events also have the small side pockets.

 

[Cardigan Kid]

Rasson is a Chinese company -- slate and tables. They were one of the sponsors of the World 14.1 event. Their table apparently was supposed to be in place at Steinway at the start of the event for the streamed matches, but damage in shipping prevented that. By the time replacement parts arrived and the table was installed, it was Day 5 (Friday).

The table apparently had 4½" corner pockets and 4 3/8" sides. I don't recall ever before seeing a full-size table with the mouths of the side pockets smaller than the mouths of the corner pockets.

I think Steinway was offering that streaming table for sale to the public.

Rasson (replacing Diamond) will also be the table for all Matchroom Sport pool events for the next 3 years -- Mosconi Cup, World Cup of Pool, and World Pool Masters: http://www.azbilliards.com/news/stories/12771-rasson-announced-as-new-matchroom-pool-table-supplier/. It will be interesting to see whether the tables for those events also have the small side pockets.

Wow - that is HUGE. China making in roads on what was Diamond's turf.
Going forward how will this be received by the players and the industry. I still have to imagine diamond tables will be the leader in quality/technical proficiency for the standard tournament table. I'm not sure 4 1/4" is perfect for pool. But once again, no world wide governing body to dictate table dimensions.

Also, how will the tables hold up over time and continued use. Will there be warping, slate crack, leveling issues?

Let's get Glenn in here for a review.

Thanks for the info fellas. Always nice to learn about the goings on in the sport.

 

[Nostroke]

That was what I had heard too. Earl was known to "bad mouth" Cuetec even though he was sponsored by them Not the brightest thing to do.

I would much rather have SVB and Allison Fisher represent my products in a professional manner than Earl "bad mouth" them in public.

Ken

From what i know he only said a thing or two to some members of the pool cult and they repeated them. Neither were a direct attack on CT. Just Earl whining.

 

[Rico]

Chinese tables equal low wages (for all).

 

[spartan]

I don't think Earl and Darren would be considered "laymen" in the pool industry.

The question still remains unanswered to my satisfaction, but then again, frankly, it's none of my business. As soon as everybody got paid and the tournament rules were adhered to, it's okay.

It would be like me charging a fee for my product, and then after the fact, the person I sold it to complained how much profit I made, even though they like my product before, during, and after. Hey, that's business!

I mean "made $30K" is a non-financial laymen term not that Earl and Darren are laymen in pool industry

The players may complain and whine but they are not asking for refund. They will let it pass except they will not show up in next event or thy will organize their own events :grin-square:

 

[Black-Balled]

And they take earls pic with tennnis on in the background...kick em when theyre down!

Not sure how i feel about 1k/ day.

In the context of world citizen, thats damn good. Versus pro athletes, not so good...but whaddya gonna do? That is what the gig pays.

Plenty of sport/hobbies out there. Cant everybody get rich off em.

 

[LAlouie]

So what were the results? The Final standings? I can't find a thing on this event.

 

[AtLarge]

So what were the results? The Final standings? I can't find a thing on this event.

Charts showing who finished where can be found here: http://worldstraightpool.com/results.html

But I'm surprised that the AzB database does not yet show the prize money for each position.

 

[GideonF]

I mean "made $30K" is a non-financial laymen term not that Earl and Darren are laymen in pool industry

The players may complain and whine but they are not asking for refund. They will let it pass except they will not show up in next event or thy will organize their own events :grin-square:

When Earl posted on Facebook about having only made $4k or $5k and the promoter having made $30k, my thought was that Earl should promote his own events and then he can make the "easy" money.

Now I see that Darren is trying to do just that - promote his own events. I wish him good luck (in all sincerity). I hope he makes money as a promoter and this leads to more competition and growth. Sitting back and complaining is easy. Actually doing something is hard work and I wish Darren well.

 

[kevina]

Rasson is a Chinese company -- slate and tables. They were one of the sponsors of the World 14.1 event. Their table apparently was supposed to be in place at Steinway at the start of the event for the streamed matches, but damage in shipping prevented that. By the time replacement parts arrived and the table was installed, it was Day 5 (Friday).

The table apparently had 4½" corner pockets and 4 3/8" sides. I don't recall ever before seeing a full-size table with the mouths of the side pockets smaller than the mouths of the corner pockets.

I think Steinway was offering that streaming table for sale to the public.

Rasson (replacing Diamond) will also be the table for all Matchroom Sport pool events for the next 3 years -- Mosconi Cup, World Cup of Pool, and World Pool Masters: http://www.azbilliards.com/news/stories/12771-rasson-announced-as-new-matchroom-pool-table-supplier/. It will be interesting to see whether the tables for those events also have the small side pockets.

Thanks for the concern to Rasson. Just wanna clarify about the pocket sizes and some other questions. First, the Victory table used for 14.1 was still the old version, not Victory II; Victory II was not ready till this year. Second, this table was scheduled as the official table for Legends of Pool in Florida on late January 2016, but it didn't catch that event due to delay on shipment, so it was stored in Florida and then be transported to New York as the match table for 14.1 just one week before 14.1, but the logistic company delayed the delivery and damaged the table during transportation, which caused the table shown up till the 5th day of 14.1 tournament. Third, the 4.5" pocket sizes for all 6 pockets were required by Dragon Promotions who told us pro players like smaller pockets.

Hopefully this explanation answers the questions. We understand and sorry for the surprise that players feel to a "sudden" showing up of Victory table during the event.

We also would like to invite your attention to our Victory II table, which is much improved than Victory I and with many unique features that you can't find in the market. More details, pls check our website www.rasson.cn .

You may experienced or heard products "Made in China" are nothing with high quality, but we have always been trying to create really good products and we welcome every honest comments to our products with actual experience. Rasson is a new brand, but not a new table manufacturer. Maybe the table you have at home was just made by Rasson~~

 

[AtLarge]

Thanks for the concern to Rasson. Just wanna clarify about the pocket sizes and some other questions. First, the Victory table used for 14.1 was still the old version, not Victory II; Victory II was not ready till this year. Second, this table was scheduled as the official table for Legends of Pool in Florida on late January 2016, but it didn't catch that event due to delay on shipment, so it was stored in Florida and then be transported to New York as the match table for 14.1 just one week before 14.1, but the logistic company delayed the delivery and damaged the table during transportation, which caused the table shown up till the 5th day of 14.1 tournament. Third, the 4.5" pocket sizes for all 6 pockets were required by Dragon Promotions who told us pro players like smaller pockets.

Hopefully this explanation answers the questions. We understand and sorry for the surprise that players feel to a "sudden" showing up of Victory table during the event.

We also would like to invite your attention to our Victory II table, which is much improved than Victory I and with many unique features that you can't find in the market. More details, pls check our website www.rasson.cn .

You may experienced or heard products "Made in China" are nothing with high quality, but we have always been trying to create really good products and we welcome every honest comments to our products with actual experience. Rasson is a new brand, but not a new table manufacturer. Maybe the table you have at home was just made by Rasson~~

So you are saying the mouths of the side pockets were not smaller than the corners, they were all 4½". I guess some people on site at the time got that wrong.

Are you sure when Dragon Promotions specified 4½" pockets they really meant to include the sides in that spec? Side-pocket mouths are normally about 1/2" larger than corners. When people just say 4½" pockets, they mean corners. The tight sides seemed to catch everyone by surprise (although I never heard Charlie Williams speak about it).

 

[kevina]

So you are saying the mouths of the side pockets were not smaller than the corners, they were all 4½". I guess some people on site at the time got that wrong.

Are you sure when Dragon Promotions specified 4½" pockets they really meant to include the sides in that spec? Side-pocket mouths are normally about 1/2" larger than corners. When people just say 4½" pockets, they mean corners. The tight sides seemed to catch everyone by surprise (although I never heard Charlie Williams speak about it).

Yes, we're told definitely by Charlie that they need all 6 pockets be 4.5"! We had thought we should make tables according to WPA standard, but since they wanted 4.5" for all DP events, so we made that. Now we have different pocket sizes separately for DP, WPA, Matchroom, EPBF.

 

[tim913]

2nd place for the US Open tennis tournament was 1.75 million
2nd place for the US Open Golf tournament was 1.08 million

We have a ways to go!

 

[Brags]

Ken...What's strange is that you jump on Earl, when he is right. $4K for 2nd place in an allegely "world championship" event is sick. The fault there belongs with the promoter. As far as your other statement about the Camel Tour...that's nonsense. RJ Reynolds had already decided that they were not going to continue with sponsoring pro pool, when their contract commitment was up...which is exactly what they did. Mackey's lawsuit was the final nail in the coffin. While I don't condone Earl's behavior during the finals of that event, he did come back at the banquet and apologize to everyone. Again, that had nothing to do with Big Tobacco deciding to pull out of pro pool.

Scott Lee
http://poolknowledge.com

Lol...4k for second place is ridiculous...you basically have to win the tournament just to cover your expenses.