Min. and Max. diameter of a-joint tenon

rhncue said:
By the time I got done typing my post a number of others have posted. I believe that a cue with an A-splice must have more than just a pin holding it together. I, myself have never ran into a cue with no tenon what-so-ever other than a J/B. A J/B gets by with no tenon because if it gets slightly lose you can give the handle a little twist and it is tight again. When the prong and handle are glued together you no longer have this luxury. If the glue breaks down from the two faces flexing, which will certainly happen, the stud will keep the handle/prong together but, I'm sure, there's going to be a pretty good buzz.

Dick
Click to expand...
A lot of Muecci's cue are put together at the A joint with no tenon. They are flat faced with a big bolt in there. To me this is a very bad idea. The cue has no choice but to have a huge weak spot there.

I use a 5/8 tenon on the forearm 1" in length with a radial connecting pin. Using the tenon on the forearm also helps the point from raising there.
 
patrickcues said:
A lot of Muecci's cue are put together at the A joint with no tenon. They are flat faced with a big bolt in there. To me this is a very bad idea. The cue has no choice but to have a huge weak spot there.

I use a 5/8 tenon on the forearm 1" in length with a radial connecting pin. Using the tenon on the forearm also helps the point from raising there.
Click to expand...
A lot of Muecci's cue are put together at the A joint with no tenon. They are flat faced with a big bolt in there.
butts arent any better
1/4" long tenons or even less i have seen :eek:
no wonder i've repaired a bunch with the buttsleeve falling off of them
another reason that anyone that wants to build cues should start out repairing cues first
 
Hi Dick; your new method sounds like an improvement, but you will still have the end grain of the tenon from the handle & forearm touching. Will that still have the posibillity of the buzz, as the end grains vibrate?...JER
 
I agree. I repaired for about 8 years before even considering making a cue.

Eric I have used the forearm tenon method. I don't like to shorten my forearm at the base of the points. I like my points fat and almost touching. I've tried every tenon possible just about but always go back to .750 handle into foream only changing pin for weight. I believe in consistency. I believe anyway you do you ajoint if you tolerances are high and your tenon is tight and fit perfect you can't go wrong any way you do it
 
dave sutton said:
I agree. I repaired for about 8 years before even considering making a cue.

Eric I have used the forearm tenon method. I don't like to shorten my forearm at the base of the points. I like my points fat and almost touching. I've tried every tenon possible just about but always go back to .750 handle into foream only changing pin for weight. I believe in consistency. I believe anyway you do you ajoint if you tolerances are high and your tenon is tight and fit perfect you can't go wrong any way you do it
Click to expand...

I do 8 pointers, no 4 pointers. They overlap, so by the time I cut the tenon on down & glue rings up, the points are still overlapping but only by a little bit, giving the illusion of sharp points coming backwards. It's a clean look & best of all the point bases are enclosed, and there's nothing inside the forearm that is putting outward pressure to possibly blow out the points.
 
rhncue said:
I used to move my tenon back and forth between handle and prong depending on what type of wood was being used in the prong, for better balance. The A-joint is the weakest and most problamatic area in a cues design, as far as I'm concerned. The predominate way that most custom cues are built are with tenon and mortise construction with a stud, adding strength and pulling all together. I have found that almost every cue that I've ever been asked to repair has had the tenon cant and crack the female mortise area. Wood, consists of numerous strands of cellulose all running in the same direction. Wood is very strong as far as tensile and compression strength but it certainly lacks strength as far as grain splitting apart. It doesn't take much leverage, by the tenon, to cause this splitting in the wood. Cues aren't supposed to be used in a way that this would occur but once in the field, things happen.

I always used a .750 tenon going into the same size bored hole. This always worried me as the diameter of the cue, at the bored hole. is usually less than an inch or so. This doesn't leave much wood on each side of the tenon for strength.

I now have done away with the tenon going into the wood, in either direction, by putting a tenon on both the handle and the prong and using a linen phenolic cylinder instead. The phenolic is much stronger than wood for this purpose. At present I make the sleeve 1.5" so that the tenons are .750 in length. The handle feels very stable with this configuration but I'm still considering going to a 2 " cylinder so that the tenons would then be an inch each. I bore the cylinder to around .650. I make my tenon on the prong .750, install my deco-rings and then turn down the tenon so that the cylinder is a nice fit and then I glue into place and drill and tap for the stud. I then rebore the cylinder to around .025 larger down to the prongs tenon. This cleans out the glue run off and ensures that the tenons bore is back to 100% true and then face for a perfect 90 deg. I then mount my handle and turn a tenon to perfectly fit the cylinders bore on the prong. I then drill and tap the handle and glue up. Doing this with a center rest insures that the prong will turn true and makes for a very sound, strong and solid fit.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Dick

DSC_000215.jpg
Click to expand...


Gus would be proud..........
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Hi Dick; your new method sounds like an improvement, but you will still have the end grain of the tenon from the handle & forearm touching. Will that still have the posibillity of the buzz, as the end grains vibrate?...JER
Click to expand...

If properly done the handle and fore shouldn't touch but be about .010 apart.
 
Been doing the tenon off the fore method for about 12 plus years.
Draw back is you have to start with a 14" fore. I bury two inches into the handle using wood threads off the .700 dia tenon.
The positive side is my points and flys become part of the tenon and I believe strengthen it with the mulitple lams. The base of the points are locked in on the inside of the handle and shouldn't come loose under normal wear and tear.
A slice of phenolic between the two is imperative IMO.
 
I like the stregnth of burried points. I just did a cue like that and didn't like the finished size of my points.

I also always use phen in the ajoint. I even offset my end grain from forearm to handle. Makes a difference IMO. However I don't use a huge pc of phen. I don't see the benefit of wasting 1" of phen when .250 will do. I'd like to hear more on this. Maybe my thinking is wrong
 
dave sutton said:
I like the stregnth of burried points. I just did a cue like that and didn't like the finished size of my points.

I also always use phen in the ajoint. I even offset my end grain from forearm to handle. Makes a difference IMO. However I don't use a huge pc of phen. I don't see the benefit of wasting 1" of phen when .250 will do. I'd like to hear more on this. Maybe my thinking is wrong
Click to expand...

I don't use phenolic at all except for accent rings. One of the tricks is epoxy choice. Most use a thick epoxy or they thicken it before using. I use a water thin epoxy that penetrates the wood very well, and let it soak in before locking the two pieces together. Right or wrong, I don't get buzz's & my cues are solid. Everybody uses what works for them.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top