Minnesota Fat's Story

[metallicane]

I know Fats would appreciate this. I was meeting with a client the other day and told them I just finished reading The Hustler and The Champ on my flight out to San Diego to see him. I told him the book was about the match between Mosconi and Fats. He said, "Oh yeah, I remember that match, Fats won right?". I am sure Mosconi turned over in his grave. Everyone knew who Fats was and thought he was the greatest pool player ever.

 

[easy-e]

Minnesota Fats was not even a good pool player; he was an author who made up the character. Then, he acted like this fictional "minnesota fats" only to play pool at a mediocre level, maybe a "B" player by todays standards.

B player. HA

 

[steveinflorida]

Minnesota Fats

I knew Fatty. First met him in 1967. And, saw him many times after that. Broke bread with him at Jansco's and in Vegas. Bet on him, but never against him. Now, I have read all these
responses and in MHO, Jay Helfert has hit it on the head. No sense in me going any further, just re-read Jay's.

 

[pdcue]

Minnesota Fats was not even a good pool player; he was an author who made up the character. Then, he acted like this fictional "minnesota fats" only to play pool at a mediocre level, maybe a "B" player by todays standards.

Why do people continue to repeat this silly story.

Fats was certainly not a world class Straight Pooll player,
not so much of a Nine Ball player either.
But, in his prime, he was a TOP One Pocket player and remained very
competitive well past his prime. I was told this in person by one of the
best One Pocket players of Fat's post-prime days.

He also was a pretty sporty Bank player - certainly no threat to
Eddie Taylor - but it took a very good player to beat him.

Dale

 

[freddy the beard]

Giving Fatty his prop's

For brevity, I am going to address at least 3 different post re Fatty. Russ mentions Fats beat Richie Florence with 2 balls 8 to 6 at Johnston City, not true. Richie played Fats 8 to 7 as stated by Jay,and lost 52 thousand. I was there. Another post said Ronnie gave him 8 to 6 at Johnston city, not true. Ronnie played him 9 to 7 and $330 to $300 on the money. ($300 a game in the early 60s is equivilent to about 4 million a game today) They broke even. I was there and watched the game. Greatest Onepocket performance, by both players, that I ever saw. Next post: McGoorty said a hundred players would swim a river of sh*t to play Fats. There was only a handful of players that could beat Fats playing Onepocket or banks and while there probably was a hundred STRAIGHT POOL players that could beat Fats playing that game, if the bet got over $200 you could probably divide that number by ten. I, like Jay Helfert and probably Brad, treasure the time I spent around Fats, the most unforgettable character I've ever come across. You shoulda been dere.

the Beard

 

[champ2107]

I have read some posts by that hal houle guy about Willie Mosconi and that Willie was not such a nice guy, is that true? Jay or anyone that new him back in the day?

 

[easy-e]

I have read some posts by that hal houle guy about Willie Mosconi and that Willie was not such a nice guy, is that true? Jay or anyone that new him back in the day?

Why don't you start a new thread for that? This is about Fats.

 

[SJDinPHX]

I have read some posts by that hal houle guy about Willie Mosconi and that Willie was not such a nice guy, is that true? Jay or anyone that new him back in the day?

I did not know him well but met him several times. He was almost devoid
of personality, and had nothing but contempt for all pool players.
He also had NO gamble whatsoever. In other words he was the
exact opposite of Fatty.

 

[champ2107]

Why don't you start a new thread for that? This is about Fats.

I would prefer to keep it hidden in this thread rather than have it posted in the open and if anyone did know mosconi they would be reading this thread. If you wanna start a thread on my post go ahead, I won't.

 

[cuesblues]

Fats

I played him once in a shopping mall exhibition, it was a lot of fun. He told me " you can't beat me, you'd have a better chance swimming underwater to Baghdad

View attachment 59338

 

[easy-e]

I would prefer to keep it hidden in this thread rather than have it posted in the open and if anyone did know mosconi they would be reading this thread. If you wanna start a thread on my post go ahead, I won't.

If that's your reason then fine, just didn't want to annoy the OP by hijacking his thread. I have no problems with it either way. I hope you don't think I was coming after you in any way.

 

[champ2107]

If that's your reason then fine, just didn't want to annoy the OP by hijacking his thread. I have no problems with it either way. I hope you don't think I was coming after you in any way.

No i did'nt think you were coming after me, I just dont feel comfortable starting a thread like that in open and I dont mean to hijack the thread, I mean no direspect to the op.

 

[biblewriter]

Fats Could Shoot!

"There's a hundred players who would swim a river of shit to play Fats."-Danny McGoorty....that's what Danny has to say about Fats in his biography.

Like a lot of blowhards McGoorty never had a good word for anybody. He even insulted Jake Schafer Jr for beating his brains out in exhibitions (a left-handed compliment).

I saw Fats play many times and no one present was doing back flips to bet against Fatty. (Fats got me into the back room in Johnston City when the Janscos were going to bar me because they thought I was too young) If McGoorty had ever played pool with Fats, he would have ended up broker than a peanut on the freeway. I saw Fatty take down Cornbread Red (he called him "no bread Red" after the match up), Marshall "Squirrel" Carpenter and "Handsome Danny" Jones in succession for thousands a set.

Fats was a streak player. When he got rolling the Fatman could demolish ANYONE at one pocket.

Fats was a tremendous banker. I cannot recall seeing him miss a bank.

Another thing, Fats was already over 50 years old the first time I laid eyes on him (1962 Johnston City, IL). Not many top players are still competitive against elite players at that age.

When he was in his prime 20 years earlier, Fats must have been a real world beater at one pocket. At straight pool and 9-ball, there were a lot of players who could outshoot Fatty, but none of them challenged him because, they knew they'd come out losers.

Fats was a great game maker and he beat people like Richie Florence (at the age of 60+) with pyschology, a little weight and some solid shooting.

I never saw anybody wolfing on Fats for a game because they knew they would end up broke if they played him. Intelligent people were very careful about making games with Fatty because he was a bankruptcy machine who could outsmart them seven different ways.

When I saw him play, Fats was beating everyone even up at one pocket except a few elite players like Clem Metz, Eddie Taylor and Luther Lassiter. All but the top few players had to proceed at their own peril and they could lose if Fats got hot. If they had played Fats 20 years earlier, they would have needed a ball or two to stay in the game.

 

[jay helfert]

I have read some posts by that hal houle guy about Willie Mosconi and that Willie was not such a nice guy, is that true? Jay or anyone that new him back in the day?

He could be fairly brusque with people, and very touchy when playing pool. He expected complete silence and full attention when he was shooting. Anything less, and you were singled out for his stare/glare.

In private conversations and at dinner and such, he was a very articulate guy, and spoke an educated style of street talk. Does that make sense? He talked like a guy from the poolroom, but one with a brain. Gosh, I guess he was kinda like me in that respect.

He did not suffer fools well, and did not hesitate to call a spade a spade. He would definitely give you his opinion on something and someone. As he got older, he mellowed a bit, and I enjoyed his company much more. He began to appreciate his friends and the people who had stuck by him all those years. He wasn't afraid to give a compliment now and then if it was warranted. He might even say Fats could play "a little".

When talking about other players, Willie was generous in his praise of old timers like Ponzi, Rudolf, St. Jean and especially Greenleaf. He also would give praise to men like Lassiter, Crane, Caras and Cranfield. Of course, he always made sure you knew he was the best! He even respected the 'good' hustlers like Eddie Taylor and Jimmy Moore.

I didn't like him when I was a kid, because he seemed so bitter when he was playing. But as I got to know him, I liked him a lot more. He was a lot more likable then some pool players I know today. A LOT!

 

[JB Cases]

Minnesota Fats was not even a good pool player; he was an author who made up the character. Then, he acted like this fictional "minnesota fats" only to play pool at a mediocre level, maybe a "B" player by todays standards.

Ronnie Allen said on tape that he couldn't beat Fats giving up 9:7. And that was in the 70's.

If that's true then it means Fats was certainly more than a "B" player.

Do any of you who consider yourselves B players by today's standards think that you could beat Ronnie Allen playing one pocket even today?

A lot of top players have stated that Fats was a good player and a better matchmaker.

 

[9 on the snap]

Minnesota Fats was not even a good pool player; he was an author who made up the character. Then, he acted like this fictional "minnesota fats" only to play pool at a mediocre level, maybe a "B" player by todays standards.

That is crazy. He was like 50 when the movie came out, and past his prime. He was competitive for a LONG time well after his prime. The man knew his limitations and was still a hustler untill a very advanced age. I agree he is a "B" player perhaps by your lofty standards, but he's been dead for 10 years. I still wouldn't bet against him. My money is on the ghost!

Pool could really use another Fats today.

 

[philw]

Like a lot of blowhards McGoorty never had a good word for anybody. He even insulted Jake Schafer Jr for beating his brains out in exhibitions (a left-handed compliment).

I saw Fats play many times and no one present was doing back flips to bet against Fatty. (Fats got me into the back room in Johnston City when the Janscos were going to bar me because they thought I was too young) If McGoorty had ever played pool with Fats, he would have ended up broker than a peanut on the freeway. I saw Fatty take down Cornbread Red (he called him "no bread Red" after the match up), Marshall "Squirrel" Carpenter and "Handsome Danny" Jones in succession for thousands a set.

Fats was a streak player. When he got rolling the Fatman could demolish ANYONE at one pocket.

Fats was a tremendous banker. I cannot recall seeing him miss a bank.

Another thing, Fats was already over 50 years old the first time I laid eyes on him (1962 Johnston City, IL). Not many top players are still competitive against elite players at that age.

When he was in his prime 20 years earlier, Fats must have been a real world beater at one pocket. At straight pool and 9-ball, there were a lot of players who could outshoot Fatty, but none of them challenged him because, they knew they'd come out losers.

Fats was a great game maker and he beat people like Richie Florence (at the age of 60+) with pyschology, a little weight and some solid shooting.

I never saw anybody wolfing on Fats for a game because they knew they would end up broke if they played him. Intelligent people were very careful about making games with Fatty because he was a bankruptcy machine who could outsmart them seven different ways.

When I saw him play, Fats was beating everyone even up at one pocket except a few elite players like Clem Metz, Eddie Taylor and Luther Lassiter. All but the top few players had to proceed at their own peril and they could lose if Fats got hot. If they had played Fats 20 years earlier, they would have needed a ball or two to stay in the game.

Great story and I thought I had heard them all "he'd end up broker than a peanut on the freeway" lol I love it! I've also read of the Ritchie Florence matchup it was in an early Billiards Digest. Apparently Fats and Florence were going to play but Fats kept putting off the match and finally caught
Florence after he had been playing for a long time and was tired well the rest is history. I hope the person who started this thread "ABall" has had enough first hand accounts given to him to allow him to change his thoughts on Fats. There's a lot of mouths in pool but without talent that's all they are. Philw

 

[Jeff]

I hope the person who started this thread "ABall" has had enough first hand accounts given to him to allow him to change his thoughts on Fats. There's a lot of mouths in pool but without talent that's all they are. Philw

I started this thread....

 

[Scott Lee]

You're close...Fats was born in 1913! ...taken from "The Hustler and The Champ"

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Another thing, Fats was already over 50 years old the first time I laid eyes on him (1962 Johnston City, IL). Not many top players are still competitive against elite players at that age.

 

[DTL]

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