Mosconi Cup 2025, Dec. 3-6, Alexandra Palace, London

[AtLarge]

... I believe Dennis Hatch is undefeated in his MC matches. ...

Hatch played in 5 Mosconi Cups -- 2009, 2010, 2012, 2013, and 2017.

His record is far from undefeated:

4 wins and 5 losses in singles​

7 wins and 7 losses in doubles​

2 wins and 3 losses in the Teams matches​

His records (including Teams matches) in his 5 Cups were 5-1, 3-3, 3-3, 0-5, and 2-3
His overall winning percentage was 46%

 

[lfigueroa]

My opinion is that, whomever we chose, gets locked up for a month to practice 8 hours a day on the same table used at the MC.

That’s the cost of making the team.

Lou Figueroa
will never happen

 

[dquarasr]

Would there be any benefit to selecting reasonably strong, but not super high strong, MC rookies who can catch a gear occasionally but statistically not be expected to win? Perhaps with very low expectations, they might not feel pressure the same way the top players feel, and might perform well with little to lose? Mix with a couple of strong players, put the rookies up first, and hope for a few early upsets to get the team on a roll?

Spitballing here…

 

[Bob Jewett]

... On paper the score should have been about 11-5 or 11-6 with the breaks being even and no dogged balls. ...

The math is in post 2 or so. Based solely on FR, the most likely score was 11-9. With two on the wire, team USA was an even bet. It looks like their actual performance was over 100 points below their ratings.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... It looks like their actual performance was over 100 points below their ratings.

Oops. It looks like the compounding of counting matches overestimates the difference. For games won, the total was 63-45 which corresponds to a Fargorate difference of 48.5 points. The difference in averages going in was 12.6. They still underperformed by an average of 36 points across 108 games.

 

[iusedtoberich]

Tuning in late... how the hell is Hatch in the mix? He hasn't been active in years.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I really thought we had a chance this year. It's amazing how much the USA team underperformed their FargoRate. I think that is what happens about every year. On paper, we should be the underdog, but competitive. Instead, we get blown to hell.

 

[straightline]

Tuning in late... how the hell is Hatch in the mix? He hasn't been active in years.

He offered to field a winner team. There should be an association of champions that could do it better.

 

[skip100]

The math is in post 2 or so. Based solely on FR, the most likely score was 11-9. With two on the wire, team USA was an even bet. It looks like their actual performance was over 100 points below their ratings.

The three dogged 9 balls are responsible for what, about 50 of those underperformance points?

 

[Matt_H]

A Brit here. I've taken an interest in the MC since the days of Lou Bouterra representing the States. I take no pleasure in seeing how one-sided this event has become, and in recent years I have been put off by crowd behaviour and by how Matchroom seem keen to build fake animosity through the pre-event pressers. The Mosconi Cup should be an advert for nineball. At the minute, its anything but. I also think, while Matchroom should continue to cover all participant's travel and lodging expenses, the prize money should go exclusively to the winning team.


I would personally like to see Matchroom increase each team to 8-10 players, with the respective captains selecting their 5 players prior to each day's play. This would increase the significance of the captain's role by allowing them to add experience for a crucial day, or bench a player who suffers from a dip in form. Matchroom rankings would still play a role in who makes the team, with the captain's picks making up the other 50%

 

[Cuebuddy]

A Brit here. I've taken an interest in the MC since the days of Lou Bouterra representing the States. I take no pleasure in seeing how one-sided this event has become, and in recent years I have been put off by crowd behaviour and by how Matchroom seem keen to build fake animosity through the pre-event pressers. The Mosconi Cup should be an advert for nineball. At the minute, its anything but. I also think, while Matchroom should continue to cover all participant's travel and lodging expenses, the prize money should go exclusively to the winning team.


I would personally like to see Matchroom increase each team to 8-10 players, with the respective captains selecting their 5 players prior to each day's play. This would increase the significance of the captain's role by allowing them to add experience for a crucial day, or bench a player who suffers from a dip in form. Matchroom rankings would still play a role in who makes the team, with the captain's picks making up the other 50%

Interesting prospective. Thanks for giving us another point of view from the Euro's side.

 

[gopi-1]

Too much hero ball on the American side, while their counterparts are stingy as hell. Next thing you know, the Americans are trailing deep, play some more hero ball and dug themselves a hole. If they have kept it close, who knows what effect it might give to the Europeans. Short races with alternate breaks gives the best chances for lesser players (3 of the Americans) , it should’nt be a blowout.

 

[skip100]

ALL these guys can run open racks, but when you start talking fringes is when you see the biggest difference between players.
- These tables are tight and fast. You need to be able to adjust and not miss balls.
- Eye test: USA isn't in the same universe tactically as the Europeans. That will - and has - cost a ton of racks.

So conclusively:
- You need to miss less
- You need to break better
- You need to play safe at the right time, and succeed
- You need to avoid fouls and selling out racks
Better players do those things better and more consistently.
Lots of little things add up in a hurry and not in a good way for the US.

This is an important point. It’s not like the US team is missing a particular element and they can focus on getting to par there to close the gap. Their ball potting is worse, their breaks are worse, safeties and tactics much worse. Safety play seems like the lowest hanging fruit, and something that would help the players outside of the MC as well.

Fargo seems to be understating the difference between the teams in recent years. We should be seeing 11-9, 11-8 contests based on the numbers and we’re not.