~ ~ ~ Mosconi Cup Qualifying Idea ~ ~ ~

Richardson

Richardson

Who me ?
Silver Member
How about having 3 tournaments, East - West Coast and one in the Midwest. Eligible US players only! Set them up as best 2 of 3, race to 5 Single Elim(think pressure) 9 ball tournaments. Mosconi Cup rules. Not rack your own.

Win one you can't play in the others. Take the 3 winners, put them on the team with the US Open 9 ball top finisher and the Captains Choice pick. If one of the qualifiers *is* the top US Open finisher it would revert to the next highest finisher of that qualifier.

This leaves open the US Open 9 ball top finisher and the Captains Choice pick to round out the 5.

Mark Wilson did well as the Captain. This whole picking the team and letting it grow is cute and all. However, year to year you don't even know who's playing good, who's in trouble for what or whatever else comes with pool. Europe players earn their way on and USA should do the same.

Just thinking out loud. Don't flame me badly please :)
 
I would actually prefer a system that awards points for places in tournaments that are already in place. Take the top three point earners and then have two captains choice picks.
 
I said something similar on another Mosconi thread, but I definitely agree. The tournaments don't need to be limited to Americans, but they should all be in the states and they should be open, non-invitational formats. I would like to see a lot of tournaments used, so there are less fluke-picks. They could use the various events in the DCC, SBE, U.S. Open, U.S. Open Bar table events, even the World Straight pool tournament now that the Steinway Classic is played around the same time, so that the rotation players will be there too.

I wouldn't mind keeping some of the new ideas that the team used this year, however. For instance, it would be nice if only the top 3 or 4 got automatic selections, that way there is room for a Captain's pick or two. This type of system would certainly bring more excitement and importance to all of those tournaments, and make sure that the top players showed up. There would be less politics, for instance the captain couldn't pretend Mike Dechaine doesn't exist, if he finishes top 3 that is. And the players would have less to complain about, because they all had a fair shot. I would only hope that they don't consider foreign tournaments (although they could with the Captain's picks) because only sponsored players can really afford to go overseas consistently.
 
We dont have the players

We have some good players, we just have to many "Near Pro Players" and not enough "Pro Players". We should rethink our expectation and realize that if we put a team together that gets close and provides some entertainment, we've done good based on the players we can put on the field.

The Euro's can bring three maybe four full 5 man teams. We cant put together 1.

The USA has 3 guys that can play consistent "Pro Level Pool" and that's it, SVB, ARCHER AND RODNEY.

Lots of young guys in the Hunt, maybe next year?
 
As I've said in a previous thread..

Here is a list of the best tourney schedule in the U.S. (BCA)
This tells who is playing BEST against the BEST.
If your rated in the top of these, you deserve it..
How did some players NOT get on the team..
Dedicated players should play in all of them to make the team ( points system)

http://www.azbilliards.com/tours_and_events/bca-ranking/
BCA Events list
Event 1: 2013 Turning Stone Classic XX
Event 2: 2013 Derby City Classic
Event 3: 2013 Ultimate 10-Ball
Event 4: 2013 Southern Classic
Event 5: 2013 US Open 10-Ball
Event 6: 2013 US Open 8-Ball
Event 7: 2013 Turning Stone Classic XXI
Event 8: 2014 Derby City Classic
 
Last edited:
My idea was to have the guys play a similar format to what the mosconi cup is.

Granted having set tournaments and telling everyone, these are the ones that give you points towards the MC team makes sense also.
 
HighEndCues said:
As I've said in a previous thread..

Here is a list of the best tourney schedule in the U.S. (BCA)
This tells who is playing BEST against the BEST.
If your rated in the top of these, you deserve it..
How did some players NOT get on the team..
Dedicated players should play in all of them to make the team ( points system)

http://www.azbilliards.com/tours_and_events/bca-ranking/
BCA Events list
Event 1: 2013 Turning Stone Classic XX
Event 2: 2013 Derby City Classic
Event 3: 2013 Ultimate 10-Ball
Event 4: 2013 Southern Classic
Event 5: 2013 US Open 10-Ball
Event 6: 2013 US Open 8-Ball
Event 7: 2013 Turning Stone Classic XXI
Event 8: 2014 Derby City Classic
Click to expand...

Man, if we could only field a team of Shane, Biado, Dechaine, Orcullo, and Lee Van, the Euros would have their hands full for sure. Too bad there are only 3 Americans in the top 15 of those rankings. Kinda indicative of the state of pro American pool.
 
Tournaments suffer from 'Luck of the Draw'. And a single frame loss may make the difference between an early exit and a high finish.

I'd prefer 10 to 15 players doing an intensive round robin, say race to 3, 3 times against each other player. So about 120 or so frames over a couple of days. Collect detailed performance stats such as those AtLarge collects. Anyone who is not running out from legal wet breaks at 40%+ should not go.
 
Round Robin day 1 and then a seated single elimination day 2 maybe?

Problem with all round robin is it can be manipulated. :(
 
ineedaspot said:
Man, if we could only field a team of Shane, Biado, Dechaine, Orcullo, and Lee Van, the Euros would have their hands full for sure. Too bad there are only 3 Americans in the top 15 of those rankings. Kinda indicative of the state of pro American pool.
Click to expand...
Funny thing is there are only 3 Euro's in the top 15 also :)
 
I don't think the U.S. has the talent depth needed to base the player selections totally on some point system.

You may end up with players that really don't belong on the big stage if you select them solely based on merit -- as unfortunate as that may sound. The first couple would probably belong but I'm not sure about the rest.

There are five positions. Each position could be filled by a different method.

Player 1: Coach's pick
Player 2: Coach's pick
Player 3: Coach's pick.
Player 4: Coach's pick.
Player 5: Coach's pick

Oh wait, that's how we did it this year. How about something different next year but players still need to be selected enough in advance of the Cup that Mark has a chance to build a rapport with them.

So how about:

Player 1: Top Performing Previous Year's MC player.
Player 2: Coach's pick
Player 3: Top Performing Player from now until next year's U.S. Open
Player 4: Winner of a Mosconi Cup qualification tourney. (players selected by the coach)
Player 5: Fan Voted Wildcard selection based on players that meet Coach's critia for being worthy of consideration
 
Mosconi Cup

No qualifying system will work if it means Archer or Morris can earn their way onto the team while Mark Wilson is in charge. He refuses to work with these top level players for personal reasons. Maybe Europe should be similarly handicapped and not allowed to use two of their best players?
 
Tiddler said:
No qualifying system will work if it means Archer or Morris can earn their way onto the team while Mark Wilson is in charge. He refuses to work with these top level players for personal reasons. Maybe Europe should be similarly handicapped and not allowed to use two of their best players?
Click to expand...

Care to share what it is exactly that Mark has against Johnny? I know there's always been some behind the scenes politicking, but in front of the cameras I think Johnny always handled himself with class.

What am I missing?
 
Shannon.spronk said:
I would actually prefer a system that awards points for places in tournaments that are already in place. Take the top three point earners and then have two captains choice picks.
Click to expand...

Our toughest problem is herding cats, leopards and roaming animals in search of food. Ya can't depend on em. In Denver tho, they are all so broke now, they are working and they are now holding $$$$$$$ and bet their own money. Times do change eh :D
 
Colin Colenso said:
Tournaments suffer from 'Luck of the Draw'. And a single frame loss may make the difference between an early exit and a high finish.

I'd prefer 10 to 15 players doing an intensive round robin, say race to 3, 3 times against each other player. So about 120 or so frames over a couple of days. Collect detailed performance stats such as those AtLarge collects. Anyone who is not running out from legal wet breaks at 40%+ should not go.
Click to expand...

Good points. I think your idea has merit and would provide value from a streaming perspective... Could this event pay for itself, and/or raise money for the team?

Do it as a side-bar to DCC, Turning Stone or the US Open (assuming it continues).
 
jaetee said:
Good points. I think your idea has merit and would provide value from a streaming perspective... Could this event pay for itself, and/or raise money for the team?

Do it as a side-bar to DCC, Turning Stone or the US Open (assuming it continues).
Click to expand...

I do like a streaking deal to raise money for the winners!
 
It would be great to see some sort of points system. The cool thing about just using the tournaments already in place is that they could institute it immediately without really having to do anything. As soon as we know who the captain is for next year's cup, he could just announce that he's picking the team based on how the players finish in certain tournaments. The only work involved would be deciding on a formula for points, possibly providing some additional adjustments (extra points for a win, throw out your worst score to protect players who might have to miss a tournament for an emergency or something), and listing which tournaments he will consider.

Also, he would have to decide how many of the players get an automatic spot, and how many captain's picks there will be. Plus, if there are captain's picks, he could limit those too, and make his pool of players smaller by saying that only the top 15-20 Americans are eligible for captain's picks or something like that. That's what I would do if I was the Captain. It would instantly make the tournaments more interesting, ensure that the top players play in more events, and eliminate a ton of the politics and complaining. Sure, there will always be people arguing over the captain's picks, but the players will have had a fair shot to earn their spot on the team.

I understand that some people are concerned that there might be too much "luck of the draw," especially considering that these tournaments are open to non-Americans, but that's why it's important to use a lot of tournaments, to even that part out. Also, that's exactly what the captain's picks are for, if a player ran into a lot of tough early opponents, the captain can point to his Accu-Stats numbers and say that even though player X finished 12th in the standings, he had top 5 numbers and deserves a shot on the team. Will people complain? Yes, that's all people really do these days, but at least the bad luck of the draw won't completely eliminate the player from being chosen. Also, players are allowed to win, even when they're the underdogs. It's ok to pull off an upset every once in a while. So there's always that, too.
 
I guess my reasoning for this is.

Why are we playing Race to 11 double elim tournaments to qualify to play a race to 5 alt break spot the 9 single elim tournament? If we had a tour like Europe this wouldn't be needed. But we have no grounds for people to earn their way there.

Why not ask 3 pool halls across the country to set something up and have the guys play a similar format. Maybe the best players in a race to 11 or 20 or 30 aren't whats needed to be competitive in the MC is my point. This is more of a practice/prove/earn your way to the MC idea. Show that you can perform under pressure (single elim) and that you can handle the shorter races.

As much as people don't like Earl and I am not for him being back on team USA. His strong suit was firing in those tough balls and getting out when no one things he can.
 
Richardson said:
I guess my reasoning for this is.

"Why are we playing Race to 11 double elim tournaments to qualify to play a race to 5 alt break spot the 9 single elim tournament?"

Because this is a SHOW, a TV event once a year, were Very lucky to have this ''out of the basement'', it's entertainment pure and simple. And pros never play scotch and they are, so what changes here do you think would work better?
My point, it's mass marketed to the rest of the planet that's trying to play the game, not make sure they have the best of it and make sure they win everytime. That's part of the reason Why were still in the dark ages here. :shakehead: It's all about the Hustle.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top