Mosconi Cup, Team USA, the real problem still exists.

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The Mosconi Cup is a TV Show......it's not a serious tournament by any stretch of the imagination. Races to 5 - Super easy equipment - Rack the 9 on THE SPOT - "Cut Break" and not to mention the fans "participation" and the players are all ask to act rather "out of character" (to say the least;)).

I really like this "special event," it reminds me of All Star Wrestling in many ways.

There's absolutely no way the Mosconi Cup reflects good OR bad on the American players......it's a great TV Show, however, they are only interested in entertainment value and ratings.

When I was the Captain in 2012 I saw this immediately in London.....I didn't lose any respect for the event, I knew what it was.....a TV Show - nothing more, nothing less.

LMFAO. No wonder we can't win if that's what are our players are think God forbid if Mark is taking such a stance as we know surly the Euros don't think of it this way
If you for one second have that opinion with a American flag on your shirt please take that shirt off and give it to someone who takes it seriously we don't need any paper tigers
Tell that to the World little series players that its all for TV or the Olympic team that care just doing it for TV
I just can't even believe I just heard this shame on you ,, pleas don't post your American out fit your not worthy of wearing it
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arps

tirador (ng pansit)
Silver Member
last year, someone suggested to loosen-up America's immigration laws and import good players from other countries. :grin-square:
 

spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
interesting. you may have unravelled Europe's training secret. i remember hearing @ Mosconi:

"i'm a Champion, and you're a chump."

.

Rhymes better if "i'm a Champ, and you're a chump."

LMFAO. No wonder we can't win if that's what are our players are think God forbid if Mark is taking such a stance as we know surly the Euros don't think of it this way
If you for one second have that opinion with a American flag on your shirt please take that shirt off and give it to someone who takes it seriously we don't need any paper tigers
Tell that to the World little series players that its all for TV or the Olympic team that care just doing it for TV
I just can't even believe I just heard this shame on you ,, pleas don't post your American out fit your not worthy of wearing it
1
That coming from someone with title "ESPN World Champion"
:D
 

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
The Mosconi Cup is a TV Show......it's not a serious tournament by any stretch of the imagination. Races to 5 - Super easy equipment - Rack the 9 on THE SPOT - "Cut Break" and not to mention the fans "participation" and the players are all ask to act rather "out of character" (to say the least).

I really like this "special event," it reminds me of All Star Wrestling in many ways.

There's absolutely no way the Mosconi Cup reflects good OR bad on the American players......it's a great TV Show, however, they are only interested in entertainment value and ratings.

When I was the Captain in 2012 I saw this immediately in London.....I didn't lose any respect for the event, I knew what it was.....a TV Show - nothing more, nothing less.


How can you say:
I didn't lose any respect for the event, I knew what it was.

When you previously stated:
it reminds me of All Star Wrestling in many ways

I believe that we pretty much know how much a Joke Wrestling is.




Ex Coaches say the darndest things sometimes, don't they.

If in your infinite wisdom and insight, you realized this immediately in London, maybe Match Room immediately saw this attitude and was a direct reflection on yourself and Team USA.

If its not a serious tournament and played on super easy equipment, someone obviously forgot to give Team Europe the memo.

Captain Johan didn't think it was a Joke.
 
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AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... Super easy equipment - Rack the 9 on THE SPOT - "Cut Break" and not to mention the fans "participation" and the players are all ask to act rather "out of character" (to say the least;)) ...

No cut breaks in 2013.
 

SakuJack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
There's absolutely no way the Mosconi Cup reflects good OR bad on the American players......

Utter nonsense. The last couple of years in particular have reflected terribly on the American players. As have your comments about the competition on you. The European team don't treat it like "just a TV show"; it's no coincidence they keep winning.

Interesting. Please explain this part.

Do you mean that they asked Earl, not to be Earl?

It confused me, too. Basically because every player has acted entirely "in character" as far back as I can remember, Earl in particular.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If it was just a TV show and nothing more than that then Earl would be picked every single year. And Europe would still be including a big name snooker pro. But they don't - both sides pick what they (wrongly or rightly) perceive as their strongest team with the best chance of winning.

Short races? Yes but lots of them with lots of opportunities for every player to deal with the variance.

Out of character? If that means politely answering the interviewers' questions, pumping the air and getting geed up when your team comes through in a tight spot, dealing with the home crowd if you are the away team, giving press conferences, jumping up and down like lunatics when you win - well that's professional sport. Interruption to you usual warm up/cool down routine - professional sport. The Mosconi Cup is the best televised advert for the game of pool in the absence of a well organised world chamionship(s) and professional circuit. The US sides who have lost badly might not have necessarily had the right mental attitude or team mentality but I have no doubt that when they were down at the table playing their shots they were trying to do one thing and one thing only - win!

World Championship - get it out of an empty soulless room in Doha and take it back to Manila where they love their pool and there is plenty of side action to make it well worth the trip for pros from Europe and North America.
 

voiceofreason

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If it is such a good deal, get out your checkbook. :) Seriously though, the trip to China isn't cheap. The reason he isn't attracting sponsors might be the same reason he didn't make the final 8 being considered for the Moscou Cup Team. Someone puts up the money to sponsor him, plasters their company name all over MD and then he acts like an ass. Even if he wins, it could still could be a bad deal for the sponsor. Look at how many sponsors pulled the plug on Tiger Woods when he got caught screwing around on his wife. MD isn't a Tiger Woods either.

In red...

yet the European players (including those based in the states) all managed the trip
 

SakuJack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In red...

yet the European players (including those based in the states) all managed the trip

Exactly. And they all have to deal with the time difference, jet lag, change in playing conditions, change in food, culture, etc., etc., etc. that supposedly have such an effect on the American players.
 

PINKLADY

ICNBB
Silver Member
Rhymes better if "i'm a Champ, and you're a chump."....

agreed, but that's not what he said on Day 3.
maybe Mark will take my post seriously. i think it's got creedence. i can absolutely imagine Johan drilling that (accent and all) into their heads for each Mosconi:

i'm a Champion....
 

jpparmentier

AZB Artist
Silver Member
Team AzB
The Mosconi Cup is a TV Show......it's not a serious tournament by any stretch of the imagination. Races to 5 - Super easy equipment - Rack the 9 on THE SPOT - "Cut Break" and not to mention the fans "participation" and the players are all ask to act rather "out of character" (to say the least;)).

CJ, saying that the MC is not a "serious tournament" is one thing: your opinion. But lying is another thing... players "asked to act"... Can you specifically quote any event when you saw this happen?

What is this about fans "participation"? Would you rather play in front of empty seats?

I really like this "special event," it reminds me of All Star Wrestling in many ways.

That's interesting. Be specific: in which ways?

The event uses Aramith TV Balls, Diamond Tables with 4 1/4 inch pockets, plenty of lighting, a referee at each match, and hundreds of fans in the crowd. How is this not a proper pool tournament and just a show?

Are the skills required to win the Mosconi Cup different than those required to win major tournaments?

There's absolutely no way the Mosconi Cup reflects good OR bad on the American players......it's a great TV Show, however, they are only interested in entertainment value and ratings.

Matchroom and Sky are indeed interested in entertainment value and ratings, which is why things have been adjusted over the years: number of participants, races, break rules, days of play...

It's probably a good thing that the MC is not left to die as are a lot of other old ventures.
It's been 21 years and going. The World Pool Masters: 22 years and going... Is this one just a TV show as well?

Without Matchroom's involvement today pool on TV wouldn't exist anymore. So yes, they have to satisfy ratings and make an exciting show. But they aren't playing trickshots either. They are playing under tournament rules, with professional equipment and the most pressure there is in the sport: TV, crowd, playing for the country and the team.


When I was the Captain in 2012 I saw this immediately in London.....I didn't lose any respect for the event, I knew what it was.....a TV Show - nothing more, nothing less.

I remember before the first day when none of your players had a clue where you were for the welcome dinner; then when everything that you could have prepared beforehand wasn't done.

Your conception of the event - "Nothing more than a TV Show" would explain why you turned up at the last minute, had no clue about the order of the matches or the rules about who to pair in the scotch doubles and such. Which is why Johnny had to carry the weight of being the anchor of the team - which he did in fantastic fashion this year -.
 

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
Are the skills required to win the Mosconi Cup different than those required to win major tournaments?

Team Europe wasn't using TOI.

And they didn't buy any DVDs.

Pisser eh. And CJ had to pay for an entire checked bag of discs.
 

decent dennis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Was reading in the billiards digest article on niels Feijen, it described how when you are a top player in his country, you get a salary from the government and you live on that and play pool full time. So that has to play a part as well.

It must be nice to not worry about mortgage and bills and just concentrate on your game. And none of the Americans have this luxury.

Kinda like the Russians used to do in the olympics, great when your on top but back to the salt mines if you falter.
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Your conception of the event - "Nothing more than a TV Show" would explain why you turned up at the last minute, had no clue about the order of the matches or the rules about who to pair in the scotch doubles and such. Which is why Johnny had to carry the weight of being the anchor of the team - which he did in fantastic fashion this year -.


He seemed to get picked solely for his sudden rabid posting and touting himself here on AZB . I hadn't heard a word about or from him in the previous decade. Does anyone know how he becoming Captain came about?

Was that the year Johnny held together and propped up a floundering and nervous Corey in their doubles match? That was something for sure.
 
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decent dennis

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CJ, saying that the MC is not a "serious tournament" is one thing: your opinion. But lying is another thing... players "asked to act"... Can you specifically quote any event when you saw this happen?

What is this about fans "participation"? Would you rather play in front of empty seats?



That's interesting. Be specific: in which ways?

The event uses Aramith TV Balls, Diamond Tables with 4 1/4 inch pockets, plenty of lighting, a referee at each match, and hundreds of fans in the crowd. How is this not a proper pool tournament and just a show?

Are the skills required to win the Mosconi Cup different than those required to win major tournaments?



Matchroom and Sky are indeed interested in entertainment value and ratings, which is why things have been adjusted over the years: number of participants, races, break rules, days of play...

It's probably a good thing that the MC is not left to die as are a lot of other old ventures.
It's been 21 years and going. The World Pool Masters: 22 years and going... Is this one just a TV show as well?

Without Matchroom's involvement today pool on TV wouldn't exist anymore. So yes, they have to satisfy ratings and make an exciting show. But they aren't playing trickshots either. They are playing under tournament rules, with professional equipment and the most pressure there is in the sport: TV, crowd, playing for the country and the team.




I remember before the first day when none of your players had a clue where you were for the welcome dinner; then when everything that you could have prepared beforehand wasn't done.

Your conception of the event - "Nothing more than a TV Show" would explain why you turned up at the last minute, had no clue about the order of the matches or the rules about who to pair in the scotch doubles and such. Which is why Johnny had to carry the weight of being the anchor of the team - which he did in fantastic fashion this year -.

Ouch, that's gonna leave a mark.
 

sjm

Sweating it at Derby City
Silver Member
I went over the pragmatic reasons for not going to the event in the first post. The reality is the entire of professionals from Europe saw the value in going to the event beyond simply the monetary reasons and they went and they got the international exposure and the experience and they will be stronger players because of it.

Anyone has the choice to be pragmatic and not compete at the highest level in pool. But the whole idea of a bunch of USA players who do not commit to pool 100% like the Euros do beating that team at the Mosconi Cup is nothing more then a bunch of lip service and hype. They have no chance because they do not treat the sport like the professional competition it truly is and how a true professional really needs to play it to be at the elite level.

It does not matter how many trips to visit sick kids in the hospital they do or how many dinners they eat as a team during the event or how well they have honed their high fiving skills. It is a team of USA players who largely do not commit to professional elite pool anywhere near to the same level as their European counterparts.

Celtic, you are one of the very best posters on this forum and this thread is the kind in which you thrive. Non-participation in WPA events has greatly weakened the pedigree of American professional pool players.

Still, I'll stand up and cheer for Van Boening, Sossei, Deuel and Dominguez, the four "Mosconi eight" players who are committed enough to professional excellence to have found a way to play in The China Open.

Seems we've got a few who understand that to be one of the most elite, you need to capitalize on opportunities to compete against the very toughest fields to the greatest extent possible. Pool's toughest fields, by far, are those founds at WPA events. Let's hope others follow in the footsteps of these four dedicated American professional players.
 

BJTyler

AzB Member
Silver Member
the last time i checked, the USA was approx 3X the sq footage of EUR/UK, and 33% of ASIA. are yáll getting bigger than your britches?

(where is ATLARGE when we need him!)

FWIW, according to wikipedia:

Europe = 3,930,000 sq. mi
United States = 3,794,101 sq. mi.
Asia = 17,212,000 sq. mi.
 
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