Mosconi Cup, Team USA, the real problem still exists.

BJTyler

AzB Member
Silver Member
The Mosconi Cup is a TV Show......it's not a serious tournament by any stretch of the imagination. Races to 5 - Super easy equipment - Rack the 9 on THE SPOT - "Cut Break" and not to mention the fans "participation" and the players are all ask to act rather "out of character" (to say the least;)).

I really like this "special event," it reminds me of All Star Wrestling in many ways.

There's absolutely no way the Mosconi Cup reflects good OR bad on the American players......it's a great TV Show, however, they are only interested in entertainment value and ratings.

When I was the Captain in 2012 I saw this immediately in London.....I didn't lose any respect for the event, I knew what it was.....a TV Show - nothing more, nothing less.

In all fairness, almost all of modern professional sports are a "TV Show". TV drives advertising, ads drive revenue, and revenue supports professionalism.

The current state of American Professional Pool and its near complete absence from American TV is not a coincidence.
 
Last edited:

BJTyler

AzB Member
Silver Member
Exactly! Captain Wilson is setting a foundation to where one could easily get behind, a corporation or state senator with government funds, and create a program.

Jasmine Ouschan has her Austrian billiards academy sponsored by the Austrian government and a car company!
The Lindenwood Billiard program is extremely similar.

God help us!
 

PINKLADY

ICNBB
Silver Member
FWIW, according to wikipedia:

Europe = 3,930,000 sq. mi
United States = 3,794,101 sq. mi.
Asia = 17,212,000 sq. mi.

thanks Honey. i'll deem you AtLarge #2! ;)
but Bob caught what i was going for.

I think the problem is that the US is getting too small for its britches. If the US repeatedly fails to fill its quota of seeded players, that quota has to be reduced for the tournament organization to work well.
 

lfigueroa

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The Mosconi Cup is a TV Show......it's not a serious tournament by any stretch of the imagination. Races to 5 - Super easy equipment - Rack the 9 on THE SPOT - "Cut Break" and not to mention the fans "participation" and the players are all ask to act rather "out of character" (to say the least;)).

I really like this "special event," it reminds me of All Star Wrestling in many ways.

There's absolutely no way the Mosconi Cup reflects good OR bad on the American players......it's a great TV Show, however, they are only interested in entertainment value and ratings.

When I was the Captain in 2012 I saw this immediately in London.....I didn't lose any respect for the event, I knew what it was.....a TV Show - nothing more, nothing less.


This attitude is Exhibit A as to why naming you as captain was ill-advised, at best.

Lou Figueroa
 

Neil

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This attitude is Exhibit A as to why naming you as captain was ill-advised, at best.

Lou Figueroa

It's good to know that we no longer have to worry about having captains or players with his attitude anymore. Because now that he "outed" himself, he will never get another chance. He also pretty much shot himself right in the temple instead of the foot with him trying to get pool on T.V. again. The one time it is on, and he mocks the t.v. production as "just a show". Why should anyone take pool seriously outside of the industry when the so called "leaders" don't take it seriously at all.
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
It's good to know that we no longer have to worry about having captains or players with his attitude anymore. Because now that he "outed" himself, he will never get another chance. He also pretty much shot himself right in the temple instead of the foot with him trying to get pool on T.V. again. The one time it is on, and he mocks the t.v. production as "just a show". Why should anyone take pool seriously outside of the industry when the so called "leaders" don't take it seriously at all.

I'm just glad that we have a Captain who's not in it for his own personal gain and you can bet your bottom dollar that no member of this team will think of it as all star wrestling and is very grateful to have had the opportunity to represent their county , I can assure you they won't be mailing it in
It's a shame that many of our pros from the past resent the game so much instead of being contributors to the game and our younger players ,, they all seem to think the game owes them ,, sad , so sad


1
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
a viable TV Show personifying the game through the characters.

That's right, the success in professional pool will be a result of the entertainment value.....it must be "A Show" to develop a mainstream following. The Mosconi Cup has a wider audence than any other show in history.

From our research the only way we can capture the potential market of pool again is through a viable TV Show personifying the game through the characters. The game it's self doesn't have enough momentum currently, what we need is a STRONG Reality Show.......and it appears to be right around the corner.

I'm involved with a show now that may very well pave the way for this to happen.....very, very soon. :thumbup: 'The Game is the Teacher'


In all fairness, almost all of modern professional sports are a "TV Show". TV drives advertising, ads drive revenue, and revenue supports professionalism.

The current state of American Professional Pool and its near complete absence from American TV is not a coincidence.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
it's a TV Show, and "acting" is part of the entertainment

Utter nonsense. The last couple of years in particular have reflected terribly on the American players. As have your comments about the competition on you. The European team don't treat it like "just a TV show"; it's no coincidence they keep winning.
In case you didn't know "a TV Show" is a compliment.....and in 2012 we were one game away from winning on the last day, if that's not exciting I wouldn't know what is......it had some of the highest ratings according to my information.



It confused me, too. Basically because every player has acted entirely "in character" as far back as I can remember, Earl in particular.
The players are ask to be many times more dramatic than they usually are.....after all it's a TV Show, and "acting" is part of the entertainment. I surprised anyone would not want a quality Pool TV Show in the air.....is this really such a "bad" thing? I would think it's a step in the right direction, although I'm not convinced that the Mosconi Cup would be warmly received on American TV Stations......and for some reason this is correct.

 

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
Somehow, no, I knew immediately that you would ignore the original points in your post and the Rebuttals from other posters and redirect.

In other words, you would be happy if Pool was made into a Gong Show for TV instead of taking its rightful place among other Sporting Shows that people take seriously.

Your way, you turn it into a Joke, as you inferred and make money at it.

The second way, you still make money and turn it into a respected sport that people look forward to watching for years to come.

Instant Money is the Teacher.

It does prove that you are of the same mind set of players from the past, present and hopefully not the future.
Instant Gratification is more important than leaving a lasting Legacy for Pool.

Mark Griffin and Match Room at least have it right so far. BTW CJ, I am reading between the lines in your posts. Not terribly difficult anyway.
So, not trying to put words in your mouth or assume, its just fairly easy to see where you would have Pool placed as opposed to others.

The game it's self doesn't have enough momentum currently, what we need is a STRONG Reality Show.


See, this is where you and others vision for Pro Pool differ at approx 180 degrees.

Your way = Gong Show.

Others = And it may take a fair more amount of time but turn it into a respected Sport with a strong following, not just a show that the Fan Base can get behind for a couple of years until a new and better Reality Show comes out.

Europe has a very strong fan Base with Snooker, Darts and Soccer. Probably many others but these three tend to be strong, at least in the UK.

This is the Vision that I truly believe that Match Room via Mark Wilson has at the moment.
 
Last edited:

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
there must be an emotional attachment to the professionals playing the game.

Pool is very much like Boxing, but instead of flurries of punches you have flurries of shots, or at the upper level flurries of racks. Instead of hooks and jabs you have draws and stuns, instead of knock out punches, you have knock out breaks, instead of ducking and dodging you're kicking and playing safe, you don't lose blood but you do lose pride, instead of 15 rounds you must win 15 games.... 9 Ball is the best TV Game, it's fast and easy to follow because there's always just one target for the fans to follow. Like Boxing there's a pre show of the brutal training the two players have to go through to compete. And of course the championship Belt.

Call pocket, Winner Break, no specialty cues, no corner ball, break from the box, 4.25 inch pockets, Incoming Player has option to pass the shot unless it's a safe, one two way shot a game, one two way safe a game, and a 15 second shot clock, race to 15, and a Ref. with white gloves racking the balls, and players dressed in Giorgio Armani, that covers what type of game.

However, like I have stated in my last posts there must be an emotional attachment to the professionals playing the game. The Game cannot be expected to draw the audience, but the players can. It's been done before and history always repeats its self and the cycle of pocket billiards is getting ready to move up. And Yes, Pocket Billiards is the Master Game.

It's the challenge of changing the present paradigm and that's a matter of implementing a strategic plan. I have a feeling this plan is underway and the stars are aligning and that means something special is in motion, and a new age of pool will soon be born.
 

punter

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
LMFAO. No wonder we can't win if that's what are our players are think God forbid if Mark is taking such a stance as we know surly the Euros don't think of it this way
If you for one second have that opinion with a American flag on your shirt please take that shirt off and give it to someone who takes it seriously we don't need any paper tigers
Tell that to the World little series players that its all for TV or the Olympic team that care just doing it for TV
I just can't even believe I just heard this shame on you ,, pleas don't post your American out fit your not worthy of wearing it
1

It is what it is, the short races make this event a coin flip. It's entertainment.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
.I'd have hated to "dog it" with Earl watching.

It is what it is, the short races make this event a coin flip. It's entertainment.

Well said!!!

I've said many times that the Mosconi Cup is a very exciting event because of the "coin flip" aspect......it's also the most pressure I've personally felt when running out the last game to win against Steve Davis and Ronnie O'Sullivan with Earl Strickland as my partner.......I'd have hated to "dog it" with Earl watching. ;) 'The Game is the Teacher'

TV SHOW = Entertainment/Ratings
 

nobcitypool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
TV must be getting all those PGA guys to act up a lot in order for over 100 players to earn $1 million plus. You can see it every weekend with them all cussing and throwing clubs as well as exhibiting incredibly poor sportsmanship. All the viewers must be tuning in to see that stuff, it can't be about the actual quality of the play.

CJ, your arrogance allows you to believe people can be dazzled with bullcrap, smoke and mirrors. As long as that attitude is pervasive among professional pool players and promoters, the game is doomed to fall. You've mentioned "around the corner" for quite some time now. The only thing around your corner is empty sidewalk.
 

SJDinPHX

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Well said!!!

I've said many times that the Mosconi Cup is a very exciting event because of the "coin flip" aspect......it's also the most pressure I've personally felt when running out the last game to win against Steve Davis and Ronnie O'Sullivan with Earl Strickland as my partner.......I'd have hated to "dog it" with Earl watching. ;) 'The Game is the Teacher'

TV SHOW = Entertainment/Ratings

Don't you ever get tired of thinking you are right, and the rest of the world are idiots ?..You have been promoting yourself as "God's gift to pool", for quite some time now..How long do you think us 'idiot's' are going to wait for some tangible results ?..You are really bringing into question, the IQ of your core believer's ! (whose numbers are rapidly dwindling)...................... "Reality is the teacher" :rolleyes:

thCA3ZZAQB.jpg

SJD----TV SHOW=Huge outlay of $$$$ and talent, to attract 'paying' sponsors ! ........Unless of course, your name is Kanye West or Kim Kardashian :eek: (you do 'real-eyes' they are a rarity, don't you ?)
 
Last edited:

SakuJack

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
In case you didn't know "a TV Show" is a compliment.....

Are these all compliments, too?

-it's not a serious tournament by any stretch of the imagination.

-Super easy equipment

-There's absolutely no way the Mosconi Cup reflects good OR bad on the American players

-they are only interested in entertainment value and ratings.

-a TV Show - nothing more, nothing less.

Of course the Mosconi is entertaining, and that's its first aim. But it's also a serious competition. To continually label it "just a TV show" or a "coin flip" when you keep losing just comes off as sour grapes, IMO.

and in 2012 we were one game away from winning on the last day, if that's not exciting I wouldn't know what is......it had some of the highest ratings according to my information.

Eh? You lost 11-9 didn't you? And even with the last day comeback of sorts, relying on Brandon Shuff and Mike Dechaine (in the form they were in) to pull out wins over the likes of Melling and van den Berg meant your chances were slim at best. I don't think anybody really thought you had a chance of winning even after taking the first 3 matches on that day, seeing as you still had your weakest players to play.

Call pocket, Winner Break, no specialty cues, no corner ball, break from the box, 4.25 inch pockets, Incoming Player has option to pass the shot unless it's a safe, one two way shot a game, one two way safe a game, and a 15 second shot clock, race to 15, and a Ref. with white gloves racking the balls, and players dressed in Giorgio Armani, that covers what type of game.

Waaaay too many weird rules, IMO. Pool is boring enough to make it a tough sell to the general public, making it confusing on top of that is suicide. Some things you've said I agree with, though. A tight table and a 15 second shot clock are musts. A dress code would help, too. But I'd go with alternate break, slop counts and no gaffy rules around two way shots and which cues are allowed.
 

(((Satori)))

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Mark Griffin and Match Room at least have it right so far.
Mark Griffin hasn't got anything right as of yet imo. His new project will suffer the same tragic death imo because I dont think he is a good promoter. He will no doubt create some great matches for the hard cores to watch but what is he going to do to bring in more fans? Earl is a promoters dream and where is he at in Marks mix? Will Dechaine have to wear a muzzle when he plays for Mark? I'm just glad Mark was not the man in the days of Mosconi vs. Fats because Mark would not have allowed Fats image to be any part of his promotion I'm sure.

What is Marks dream anyway? To clean up pool? Does he want it to be seen in the same respect as golf? I'll be very surprised if he is able to accomplish this. Pool in a lot of people's eyes is the game people play in bars. He adds to this image by profiting from his pool league that is scattered throughout the country in bars everywhere. If he wants to clean up pool and change the image maybe he could start by shutting down his league which is played by "people who dress with no class". I don't really think he should shut down his league but I think there is some flaws in his vision. Pool is what it is and the image is not changing anytime soon. The average Joe is not going to watch pool because the players look clean cut, well mannered, and play great imo. The average Joe might tune in for some more showmanship though like Fats and Mosconi had. Let the players be them self (which is not near as bad as some on here like to make them out to be) and as a promoter learn how to entertain. <<<< That is what Mark needs to do imo.

But if you think he will change the image and grow the sport then I will wait patiently and see.
 
Last edited:

Blue Hog ridr

World Famous Fisherman.
Silver Member
CJ, you should start watching the fishing shows. Take your pick as there are tons of them.

And then wonder why these guys make anywhere from 250 K plus a year. Thats minimum. They have generous sponsors for a start.

For example, if I were to take a record Wall Eye from one of the lakes close to myself,
Berkeley and the rest would be calling me.

And also consider why the fishing shows have literally millions of viewers.

You don't hear the guys saying, FK this and FK that. No drop kicking their 500 dollar G Loomis rods in the water.

Its good clean fun that anyone can do regardless if you have thousands invested or just one rod and reel.

You have tackle companies, line, boats, motors and much more all vying for the viewers dollars.

And don't even think about Nascar. There are companies that make more money in one year selling Nascar swag than has ever been invested in Pool.

Funny how things work sometimes.
 

(((Satori)))

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
CJ, you should start watching the fishing shows. Take your pick as there are tons of them.

And then wonder why these guys make anywhere from 250 K plus a year. Thats minimum. They have generous sponsors for a start.

For example, if I were to take a record Wall Eye from one of the lakes close to myself,
Berkeley and the rest would be calling me.

And also consider why the fishing shows have literally millions of viewers.

You don't hear the guys saying, FK this and FK that. No drop kicking their 500 dollar G Loomis rods in the water.

Its good clean fun that anyone can do regardless if you have thousands invested or just one rod and reel.

You have tackle companies, line, boats, motors and much more all vying for the viewers dollars.

And don't even think about Nascar. There are companies that make more money in one year selling Nascar swag than has ever been invested in Pool.

Funny how things work sometimes.
What about boxing or mma? Do the fighters have to present a clean image to bring in the sponsors? Floyd seems to be doing fine. The UFC seems to be doing fine. If a player grew up tough hustling for a living, a good promoter can use that to their advantage. People like to see that kind of stuff if it is done right.
How is pool going to bring in the fans? When this happens the sponsors will come.
 
Last edited:
Top