Mosconi Cup, Team USA, the real problem still exists.

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
china open, seriously who cares? china is an absolute joke look @ the arena they're playing in and not even 1% of the seats are filled, any top american pro (mosconi member or not) that goes to the philippines and gains any respect whatsoever over there will also have mine! the fact that none have specifically traveled there just to gamble yet speaks volumes about how much they really care about improving their games! i am by far not the 1st to say this, it is an absolute no brainer! if u read jay's posts u know they can get cheap action or not so cheap action

I heard cheers from at least a couple hundred fans nearly all week. The venue looked better than any I've seen in the USA. Period. JMHO
 

PINKLADY

ICNBB
Silver Member
Not strictly true. As in all WPA events the various regions of the World get spots and these work out roughly as Asia 35% Europe 35% USA 10% Rest of World 10% and 10% come from qualifiers. Usually the host country pick up any withdrawal spots....

the last time i checked, the USA was approx 3X the sq footage of EUR/UK, and 33% of ASIA. are yáll getting bigger than your britches?

(where is ATLARGE when we need him!)
 

Nostroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
the last time i checked, the USA was approx 3X the sq footage of EUR/UK, and 33% of ASIA. are yáll getting bigger than your britches?

(where is ATLARGE when we need him!)

Cmon Wendy- Sq feet? Europe has 2.5 x our population. They are closer and they travel way more than our pros do. It may be changing a little now as there are few tournies left to play in the US but give the WPA some time to adjust. Every year prior to this one, we didnt fill our spots for the China Open or if we did one year, it was because some of our non top 20 guys decided to go.
 
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elvicash

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thorsten posted this to Facebook.

5th place in Shanghai. Honestly never felt comfortable on the equipment here and played poorly except on the tv table. I should remain WPA World's number one at least for another couple of weeks. Ten days in Germany preparation for the World Championship in Qatar, June 19th! Photo by Tai Chengzhe

So he/Thorsten has the funding to travel to China, Return to Germany work on his game and then travel to Qatar. I think our players are staying in the Far East and working on their game in the Far East area it is probably cheaper for them that way. It is good for the European players to have club/government/corporate sponsorship. The path Mark Wilson has chosen will put our players out there so they will hopefully attract similar financial support in the future. Also hopefully we will get spots in the future allocated to the US or the funding is found for our players to enter the qualifiers. The path Mark has chosen will bear fruit, we have to give it time, see how it works and support our team.

Good luck Team USA.
 

jay helfert

Shoot Pool, not people
Gold Member
Silver Member
china open, seriously who cares? china is an absolute joke look @ the arena they're playing in and not even 1% of the seats are filled, any top american pro (mosconi member or not) that goes to the philippines and gains any respect whatsoever over there will also have mine! the fact that none have specifically traveled there just to gamble yet speaks volumes about how much they really care about improving their games! i am by far not the 1st to say this, it is an absolute no brainer! if u read jay's posts u know they can get cheap action or not so cheap action

Of the current crop of top pros over here, Shane is the one who has done the most high stakes gambling in the Philippines. John Morra spent months there, gambling daily, and came back a much better player, World Class in fact. In the past Johnny and Rodney did a lot gambling in the PI as well.

When Bob Hunter launched his comeback he also spent considerable time in the PI first.
 

ScottyDzntKnow

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I would think the European players have a much better fan base also! I doubt the fans there continually knock their players non-stop. Anyone that thinks any member of team U.S.A. is a big dog in a short race against anyone, doesn't know pool.

Finally someone says it. I'm so sick of seeing people knock their own countries team. The trip to china is about 4000 $ with passport, air fair, hotel and entry how many players do you think can spit that out ?

They got picked for the Mosconi cup so now all of a sudden their supposed to be able to afford to spit out 4000 $ on a tournament shane hasn't even been able to win? Why don't people just sit back shut up and watch them get tortured this year since that seems to be what people want. This way all you detectives can say "I told you so "
 

nobcitypool

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
1. Is bad.
2. Well, with the team being the biggest underdogs in years, if they were to pull off the upset, few people would care how they act.

Speak for yourself. I believe a lot of people care how they act.

3. And 4. Again, all they really gotta do to pull off proper behavior is not be "that guy." Hardly difficult. They're making it out to be a bigger deal than it is. Tell the adults to act like adults, or they don't get asked back.

It apparently was quite difficult for the last 2 teams. They didn't act like adults and they didn't get asked back. I believe that's been my point, thanks for confirming it.


...................
 

Bob Jewett

AZB Osmium Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
the last time i checked, the USA was approx 3X the sq footage of EUR/UK, and 33% of ASIA. are yáll getting bigger than your britches? ...
I think the problem is that the US is getting too small for its britches. If the US repeatedly fails to fill its quota of seeded players, that quota has to be reduced for the tournament organization to work well.
 
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spartan

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
All of the talk about the change to young guns and less "ego" on the team has been well and good. "But" the real problem that team USA has failed to be competitive in the last few years has not ever been the attitudes of the team members.

This is the real reason they fail to compete.

China Open Attendance by team members.

Team Europe members/potential members who attended the China Open

Darren Appleton
Thorsten Hohmann
Mika Immonen
Chris Melling
Karl Boyes
Ralf Souquet
Neils Feijen
Nick Ekonomopolous

Team Europe members/potential members who did not attend the China Open

None

Team USA members who attended the China Open

Shane Van Boeing
Corey Deuel
Oscar Dominguez
Jeremy Sossei

Team USA members picked by Mark Wilson who did not attend the China Open

Justin Bergman
Justin Hall
Brandon Shuff
John Schmidt

Every single one of the players who are likely to be on team Europe compete in the world class events. This was one of the toughest fields of the year and it is events like the China Open that the top pros always play to stay at the top of the game and hone their skills against the elite players of the world.

4 of the 8 people on team USA attended the event. Where were the other 4? I know people can have things they need to do, or they can have issues with money or not see it as a good bet/investment, but EVERY player on team Europe went and competed and they will ALL be stronger players for having done it.

If money is an issue, then where is Justin Bergman? He just won a huge $2000 added bar box event, he could have used that as a stake to get into more world class events abroad and finally come out of the shadows and honed his game against the best of the best, and that WOULD help his game reach the next level.

Where is John Schmidt? I mean at all... You hardly see his name on "any" events of late. How is this guy going to compete at the elite level against the best players in Europe when he has not even played much pool at all over the last 2 years? I would have thought getting chosen for the team would get him commited to playing again and get him out there pushing his game back up near the top of the world, instead he said it was a great honor getting chosen, and I guess we will all now see him in December? Yeah he is sure going to be competitive...

Justin Hall? Has he "EVER" played in a world class event? He might have huge talent but he is going up against guys like Karl Boyes and Melling who have every bit as much talent as he does and who are going to play WAY more top level world class events against world class competition, that is going to make him a HUGE underdog in each match he plays. He might be able to still squeak out a short set win, but it will be a clear upset and over the long haul trying to buck the odds over and over again is a losing bet.

Brandon Shuff? Again, lots of talent, potential, and no world class tournament experience abroad against elite fields full of the best players in the world.

I am sure the half of the field that went to the China Open gained valuable experience, they came away from the event stronger no matter what their outcome was, they can build on their success and failures in that event and they saw the absolutely top elite level that exists in the sport and know now where they need to be to compare to it.

It was ALWAYS a lack of commitment to world class competition that led to the downfall of Team USA in the Mosconi Cup. It was the semi retirement of Archer, Morris (who was actually at the China Open this time), Deuel, and the other seasoned pros that let Team Europe catch up to them and pass them by. If the top American players had kept as focused on the game as the guys on Team Europe and went into every competition and focused on it like they did then the top pros on Team America would have remained right there with their European counterparts.

This has always been the problem with Team USA, and if these young guys who Mark Wilson is trying to make into a "team" are not actually competing at the elite level that the guys from Team Europe are then Team USA is doomed. Going to a day trip to talk to navy seals is awesome, but you know what would have helped team USA better? If EVERY player on the MC team went to the China Open and competed in it and supported each other during it and they ALL came away with the battle hardening it would have caused.

Mike Dechaine is no different. He came on here asking why he was not on the team, right after a big win where he beat Mika in a final. Well after Mika lost that final he went to the China Open and has played great pool against the best players in the world and will come back stronger because of it. Where is Mike? If you are the #2 player in the USA why the heck are you not out there competing at the top level that the sport offers and putting yourself up against the best of the best when the chances arise to do so? That is the way you become the best, you need to get out there and show the WORLD how good you are, not your little neck of the woods at home. Go win one or two of these things in a year and there is no way you won't be chosen for the team next year regardless of attitude. There is a point where a guy has simply too much success to say no to, but you did not even go over there and try... That makes your omission less of a thing IMO because it shows a lack of commitment to really stretch your legs and put yourself out there at the top end of competition, and guess what, every single guy on Team Europe did that and were there.

Nice post telling it as it is
It is sad that there are those like Dechaine are contented with just being a regional or village champ. Not willing to take risks outside their comfort zone or fearful they cannot play at same speed as those outside his zone.
Which is why I respect Shane. He knows it is not enough being revered as god at home. He puts his reputation on line to play other gods in rest of world.
Now no wonder Thorsten called out to Dechaine at recent match "you think you are World Champion? You have won nothing!" :grin::grin:
 

Cardigan Kid

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Thorsten posted this to Facebook.

5th place in Shanghai. Honestly never felt comfortable on the equipment here and played poorly except on the tv table. I should remain WPA World's number one at least for another couple of weeks. Ten days in Germany preparation for the World Championship in Qatar, June 19th! Photo by Tai Chengzhe

So he/Thorsten has the funding to travel to China, Return to Germany work on his game and then travel to Qatar. I think our players are staying in the Far East and working on their game in the Far East area it is probably cheaper for them that way. It is good for the European players to have club/government/corporate sponsorship. The path Mark Wilson has chosen will put our players out there so they will hopefully attract similar financial support in the future. Also hopefully we will get spots in the future allocated to the US or the funding is found for our players to enter the qualifiers. The path Mark has chosen will bear fruit, we have to give it time, see how it works and support our team.

Good luck Team USA.

Exactly! Captain Wilson is setting a foundation to where one could easily get behind, a corporation or state senator with government funds, and create a program.

Jasmine Ouschan has her Austrian billiards academy sponsored by the Austrian government and a car company!
The Lindenwood Billiard program is extremely similar.
 

PINKLADY

ICNBB
Silver Member
....Now no wonder Thorsten called out to Dechaine at recent match "you think you are World Champion? You have won nothing!"

interesting. you may have unravelled Europe's training secret. i remember hearing @ Mosconi:

"i'm a Champion, and you're a chump."

.
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The china open was by invitation unless you play through their pre tournament qualifier. A lot of America players were not invited.

And why should they be their is better players else where , they don't owe us anything , very few of our turnys pay anywhere near enough for them to come over here and thats a good thing because if they did our players would be looking for jobs at the grocery store


1,
 

backplaying

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Of the current crop of top pros over here, Shane is the one who has done the most high stakes gambling in the Philippines. John Morra spent months there, gambling daily, and came back a much better player, World Class in fact. In the past Johnny and Rodney did a lot gambling in the PI as well.

When Bob Hunter launched his comeback he also spent considerable time in the PI first.

I would say there would be no better training for any player. I would like to see Justin Bergman go over there and stay six months, doing nothing but gambling.
 

leto1776

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
...................

They can behave however they want. In the end, it's about winning at pool. If you can't do that, the rest doesn't matter. The Olympic village is known as party central. Does anyone care? Not as long as the results are good.

Celtic makes great points. Except for Shane, no one else is putting their pride on the line and facing big time international competition. The Days of not needing to leave the U.S. For big tournaments is long done. The Mosconi is known as a pressure cooker. Wanna get used to pressure, gotta put yourself in high pressure situations.
 

spanky79

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Exactly! Captain Wilson is setting a foundation to where one could easily get behind, a corporation or state senator with government funds, and create a program.

Jasmine Ouschan has her Austrian billiards academy sponsored by the Austrian government and a car company!
The Lindenwood Billiard program is extremely similar.

lol that wont be happening. our government either keeps the money for themselves or give it to people in other countries. Keep dreaming
 

spanky79

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
They can behave however they want. In the end, it's about winning at pool. If you can't do that, the rest doesn't matter. The Olympic village is known as party central. Does anyone care? Not as long as the results are good.

Celtic makes great points. Except for Shane, no one else is putting their pride on the line and facing big time international competition. The Days of not needing to leave the U.S. For big tournaments is long done. The Mosconi is known as a pressure cooker. Wanna get used to pressure, gotta put yourself in high pressure situations.

no one sees what happens in the olympic village, it is that way for a reason.

If you act like an ass you dont deserve to play. period. I dont care if this team loses, at least they will lose with class and not may US pool look even worse then it already does.

Lat year was a joke. I expected the US team to get crushed, just not as bad as it was.

For those crying about MD not making the final 8. He played like crap and acted even worse and you expected him to be back lol.

Dont expect to see Rodney, Jonny, Dennis, or Earl any tine soon either.

I usually root for the Euros because most of them are great guys an dont act like children.

This year I might actually have a decent team to route for.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Pool is an "American" game. But the reality is that Asia and Europe have better players at present. I can't see why this is a problem - I'm English but don't expect England to win the FIFA World Cup any time soon. I also don't think they've got some god given right to win it just because it's the home of the game. The UK-Irish domination of snooker will come to an end pretty soon and in the last decade of my life there might not even be a UK winner. Who cares?

Mosconi Cup? It's 9 ball - anyone can win. For the players it shouldn't (once they are there and playing for their team) be about 'merica vs yourup. It should be about playing for your team, with the teammates you have been selected to play with. Just like any team pool event. Win as a team. Lose as a team.

The US is very good at producing dominating teams in sports where the players are paid a million dollars for getting out of bed though.
 

CJ Wiley

ESPN WORLD OPEN CHAMPION
Gold Member
Silver Member
I really like this "special event," and it reminds me of All Star Wrestling

The Mosconi Cup is a TV Show......it's not a serious tournament by any stretch of the imagination. Races to 5 - Super easy equipment - Rack the 9 on THE SPOT - "Cut Break" and not to mention the fans "participation" and the players are all ask to act rather "out of character" (to say the least;)).

I really like this "special event," it reminds me of All Star Wrestling in many ways.

There's absolutely no way the Mosconi Cup reflects good OR bad on the American players......it's a great TV Show, however, they are only interested in entertainment value and ratings.

When I was the Captain in 2012 I saw this immediately in London.....I didn't lose any respect for the event, I knew what it was.....a TV Show - nothing more, nothing less.


Like I said, you're welcome to your opinion. The USA has football, basketball and baseball; Europe has soccer. I guess pool is higher on their list of entertainment choices than it is here. I personally don't think the outcome of the Mosconi Cup hinges upon the team members playing in China.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
World Snooker Championship is also a TV show bankrolled by entertainment value and ratings. Winner takes home 300k GBP though as a side effect....
 

leto1776

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
The Mosconi Cup is a TV Show......it's not a serious tournament by any stretch of the imagination. Races to 5 - Super easy equipment - Rack the 9 on THE SPOT - "Cut Break" and not to mention the fans "participation" and the players are all ask to act rather "out of character" (to say the least;)).

I really like this "special event," it reminds me of All Star Wrestling in many ways.

There's absolutely no way the Mosconi Cup reflects good OR bad on the American players......it's a great TV Show, however, they are only interested in entertainment value and ratings.

When I was the Captain in 2012 I saw this immediately in London.....I didn't lose any respect for the event, I knew what it was.....a TV Show - nothing more, nothing less.

This view from a former MC player and captain kinda reinforces views I displayed in my thread about the MC ultimately being irrelevant.
 
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