Mosconi Cup...The Hard Truth -- Gambling is Just Easier!

BasementDweller

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"Nice match but you know you got lucky right? You wanna play a few sets later?"

"Sure Europe won the Mosconi Cup but none of those guys can win a gambling match!"

"We will never really know how good a player someone like Ralph Souquet is because he doesn't gamble and money matches are much more important than tournament victories."

ENOUGH ALREADY!

I think it's about time to put this gambling nonsense to bed. Sure gambling was and still is a major part of the American pool scene but when you really think about it -- gambling is just easier for many of the pro level players. Why is that you ask? Well, for most of these guys the battle is won before the first ball is even struck. If a pro is playing someone that plays below their speed, they know exactly how much weight they can give up, and they ensure the set is long enough to outrun any bad rolls and give them amble opportunity to overcome their mistakes. You call that pressure? The days of the top dogs playing on their last dime is pretty much gone. They know what they are doing and seldom do the top players even match up with each other.

But you say, there's money at stake when players are gambling and this really shows who is able to handle the pressure. Do you think these same players are somehow unable to count money when they find themselves in the finals of a major tournament? There can be a significant difference between winning 1st or 2nd in many major tournaments and I'm quite certain that all of the pro players are aware of this.

Flat out -- tournaments are just more difficult for the pros. I think they feel more pressure and all of the flaws in their strokes come out under the lights of a tough tournament match. There's no more thinking, "well, if he gets me this set we can just flip it again." Instead it's do or die time and they have to play perfect. Unfortunately for the U.S., we really don’t have too many players that are capable of playing perfect pool in this environment.

We live in a country that is littered with local champion money players. Almost all serious U.S. pool players are introduced to gambling very early on and many of them find a way to line their pockets after only a few years of serious play. This easy money breeds a certain laziness amongst those of us in the amateur ranks and I think it spills into the professional ranks as well. After all, it is this gambling culture that the pros come from. Many of them have viewed themselves as champion players long before they were even remotely close to being so. The easy money does something to the player’s psyche. They lose that hunger for practice since they are already the best player around and they have the cash to prove it.

Contrast that with the tournament warrior, especially of the European variety. Their goal isn’t to make some easy money, but to start out on a long journey to become a champion. Their goal isn’t to heist some banger out of a few bucks. Instead, they become dedicated to the game. Their only goal is to become the best player they can be and so they work diligently on their game – EVEN AFTER becoming a champion. For them it is not about the money.

It really is the tortoise vs. the hare.

Gambling is just easier.
 
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"Nice match but you know you got lucky right? You wanna play a few sets later?"

"Sure Europe won the Mosconi Cup but none of those guys can win a gambling match!"

"We will never really know how good a player someone like Ralph Souquet is because he doesn't gamble and money matches are much more important than tournament victories."

ENOUGH ALREADY!

I think it's about time to put this gambling nonsense to bed. Sure gambling was and still is a major part of the American pool scene but when you really think about it -- gambling is just easier for many of the pro level players. Why is that you ask? Well, for most of these guys the battle is won before the first ball is even struck. If a pro is playing someone that plays below their speed, they know exactly how much weight they can give up, and they ensure the set is long enough to outrun any bad rolls and give them amble opportunity to overcome their mistakes. You call that pressure? The days of the top dogs playing on their last dime is pretty much gone. They know what they are doing and seldom do the top players even match up with each other.

But you say, there's money at stake when players are gambling and this really shows who is able to handle the pressure. Do you think these same players are somehow unable to count money when they find themselves in the finals of a major tournament? There can be a significant difference between winning 1st or 2nd in many major tournaments and I'm quite certain that all of the pro players are aware of this.

Flat out -- tournaments are just more difficult for the pros. I think they feel more pressure and all of the flaws in their strokes come out under the lights of a tough tournament match. There's no more thinking, "well, if he gets me this set we can just flip it again." Instead it's do or die time and they have to play perfect. Unfortunately for the U.S., we really don’t have too many players that are capable of playing perfect pool in this environment.

We live in a country that is littered with local champion money players. Almost all serious U.S. pool players are introduced to gambling very early on and many of them find a way to line their pockets after only a few years of serious play. This easy money breeds a certain laziness amongst those of us in the amateur ranks and I think it spills into the professional ranks as well. After all, it is this gambling culture that the pros come from. Many of them have viewed themselves as champion players long before they were even remotely close to being so. The easy money does something to the player’s psyche. They lose that hunger for practice since they are already the best player around and they have the cash to prove it.

Contrast that with the tournament warrior, especially of the European variety. Their goal isn’t to make some easy money, but to start out on a long journey to become a champion. Their goal isn’t to heist some banger out of a few bucks. Instead, they become dedicated to the game. Their only goal is to become the best player they can be and so they work diligently on their game – EVEN AFTER becoming a champion. For them it is not about the money.

It really is the tortoise vs. the hare.

Gambling is just easier.

Wow, very strong and I think true statement. I do think gambling can help a player for sure but when its done in the fashion you described so well it can cause more harm than good. Great post.
 
In tournaments you only have 1 or 2 barrels to fire. Matching up gambling you can have as many as the amount of money in your pocket. If tournaments were races to 21 double elim, Id say it would be about the same pressure. Johnnyt
 
Gambling by Top Players Encourages Gambling by Others. The more famous the star, the more the fans want to emulate them. And they won’t just try to copy their stroke, attitude or mannerisms, they’ll copy the gambling, too. Jeanette “Black Widow” Lee won the Louie Roberts Action Award at Derby City Classic, one of the most prestigious tournaments in pool. The idea that there even is such an award is a testament to the extent to which gambling is part of the sport’s lifeblood. When a major champion like Jeanette Lee, who is a spokesperson for the APA, the largest league operator in the country, and one of the most recognizable faces in the sport, is celebrated for her gambling behavior, is there any question that many of her legion of fans will want to follow her lead?
 
This is very true...20 years ago, the top European players struggled in matches against our top players. Since then, they've developed players that had to graduate to the top via a complex system of nested federations/leagues that forced them to earn their skill and stay in a near constant state of competition and improvement. For the most part, you can't just pay your entry into a European Tour and play, you have to belong to a certain billiard federation, and have earned your way via qualifications. There's a whole different work ethic at play...top Euro players are perfectly willing to listen to a certified coach/instructor (they've standardized this, too) and shoot the same drill for days on end.

As far as gambling goes, most Euros don't really do it, but the UK players are no strangers to wagers. If DAZ or Boyes ducks a game in NC, it's not because they can't gamble...it's because they know what they're doing.
 
Regardless of anything else...

Weight

Is the reason I can't take pool gambling money matches seriously.

"If your gonna shoot; SHOOT! Don't talk."
The Ugly
 
In tournaments you only have 1 or 2 barrels to fire. Matching up gambling you can have as many as the amount of money in your pocket. If tournaments were races to 21 double elim, Id say it would be about the same pressure. Johnnyt

You realize less barrels = more pressure.

Speaking of pressure. Very few of the gamblers even bet their own. Where's the pressure in that.
 
REALLY???

How many tournaments have you played? How many gambling sets????

You think there's more pressure on a race to 6 free ride, than a set with a real chance to lose some dough???????????????????????????????????????????????


That tells me all I need to know. A free ride where everyone gets paid has more pressure than gambling...

The dirty little secret no one mentions, is that USA doesn't care the same way Europe does/did. Euro's come in wanting to shoot our nuts off. USA comes in thankful for the free ride. You think ANY of team Europe went out and tied one on the night before the Mosconi?????????? Get real man. You have NO idea what you're talking about.

Not one player on either team has any delusions about what the Mosconi is, and not one of them will gamble in the same format. Mosconi Cup isn't pool. It's the pool equivalent of a reality TV show.
 
this reminds me a lot of the "SVB is the best player on earth" thread. it always ended up on something like, "would (insert name of player) play shane for x-grand in a race to 100???" or something like, "forget the WPA stats, just look on the moneyboard." :)
 
It doesn't surprise me to see Europe win. Europe has a lot more players to choose from and they have a more lucrative pro pool circuit which produces more players.
 
this reminds me a lot of the "SVB is the best player on earth" thread. it always ended up on something like, "would (insert name of player) play shane for x-grand in a race to 100???" or something like, "forget the WPA stats, just look on the moneyboard." :)



I'm not saying the MC doesn't come with pressure, but lets be honest about what it is.
 
The dirty little secret no one mentions, is that USA doesn't care the same way Europe does/did. Euro's come in wanting to shoot our nuts off. USA comes in thankful for the free ride. You think ANY of team Europe went out and tied one on the night before the Mosconi?????????? Get real man. You have NO idea what you're talking about.

Couldn't agree more. The real thing missing from the US players is the sense of team. The sense of pride in something bigger than just your own individual game. The Europeans take it seriously. They band together. They play like they respect each other. They seem to care less about the money and just want to prove that EUROPE is better. The US guys seem to have the attitude that they want to get paid and prove that they as individuals are awesome. Well, they failed to do that this year.

Not one player on either team has any delusions about what the Mosconi is, and not one of them will gamble in the same format. Mosconi Cup isn't pool. It's the pool equivalent of a reality TV show.

And yet despite that, Team Europe still participates and takes it seriously. They do what they need to to prove that they're better at it than we are. And the US players just look for excuses as to why they lost. Again. The answer is pretty obvious... because they don't give a rat's ass about the cup, the team, or anyone and anything but themselves and their paycheck.
 
Justin, sure there's no risk, coz you're really not gambling with your OWN money. i get it. but there's always a burden especially when you're representing your country, and your countrymen count on you. and then you hear that annoying "EUUUUUURRRRRRROPE" cheer. (it was actually way more annoying than Earl's tantrums.)
 
I'm not saying the MC doesn't come with pressure, but lets be honest about what it is.

I think if you ask any player that has played Mosconi Cup where in pool have you felt the most pressure the answer would be the Cup more often than not.
 
REALLY???

How many tournaments have you played? How many gambling sets????

You think there's more pressure on a race to 6 free ride, than a set with a real chance to lose some dough???????????????????????????????????????????????


That tells me all I need to know. A free ride where everyone gets paid has more pressure than gambling...

I bet these players feel more pressure during the Mosconi Cup than they do at any other time -- gambling or tournament!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The dirty little secret no one mentions, is that USA doesn't care the same way Europe does/did. Euro's come in wanting to shoot our nuts off. USA comes in thankful for the free ride. You think ANY of team Europe went out and tied one on the night before the Mosconi?????????? Get real man. You have NO idea what you're talking about.

That's exactly my point. The Europeans take the game seriously. This includes their practice time, their tournament matches, for some -- an occasional gambling match, or even...OH NO -- a friendly game of 14.1.

In my OP I was just trying to point out that I think part of the reason our players don't take the game as seriously as do their European counterparts is because of our gambling culture. This isn't really meant to imply that gambling is necessarily a bad thing, it's just players need to be aware of what it can do to their psyche.

Not one player on either team has any delusions about what the Mosconi is, and not one of them will gamble in the same format. Mosconi Cup isn't pool. It's the pool equivalent of a reality TV show.

Overall, I'm not a fan of short races, but the Mosconi Cup is more revealing than I once believed.
 
You want to motivate the Americans???? Want to see the Americans be a TEAM??Simple!! Just have the Mosconi Cup be a "winner take all" event...NOTHING for the losing side. IF you could get the Americans to play it at all, you would see them come together as a "team", with "team spirit", and all holding their breath on every ball.
 
To me, the Mosconi Cup is like the Ryder Cup in golf. The US has gotten beat a lot lately at the Ryder Cup even though their individual players are usually far superior. They just care a lot less about the Ryder Cup.

The USA has 5 of the top 10 golfers according to the World Golf Rankings. Europe has 2.
Europe has won 7 out of the last 10 Ryder Cups
 
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