Mosconi has the high run, or does he really ?

stevekur1

stevekur1

The "COMMISH"
Silver Member
Hey,

I was cleaning out the house prepping for a Garage Sale, and i came across a Guinness Sports Record book from 78-79

And they say that the Longest Pool Run was 625 in 1960 by Michael Eufemia, is this really true? Or was this a different version of the game of Straight Pool?

Need Some Insight!

Steve
 
stevekur1 said:
Hey,

I was cleaning out the house prepping for a Garage Sale, and i came across a Guinness Sports Record book from 78-79

And they say that the Longest Pool Run was 625 in 1960 by Michael Eufemia, is this really true? Or was this a different version of the game of Straight Pool?

Need Some Insight!

Steve
Click to expand...

According to several sources, the reason Mike Eufemia's run is not recognized is because nobody saw the entire run from beginning to end.

I have also heard that Babe Cranfield ran 768 in practice.
 
thanks Dave.

man we have conversations all over the place. Here,Facebook, whats next Email ???

Thanks
Steve
 
Mosconi's record

Mosconi's run was during an exhibition match, which is observed and 'official'. For the record to stand it has to be a tournament, or an exhibition, to be 'official'.

When Mosconi dominated 14.1 for 10 years, he was unbeatable. In fact, he was so much better than everybody else that they stopped having 14.1 world tournaments for 7 years because nobody would put up the money any longer, figuring that they might as well just give it to Mosconi directly since he would win anyway. Even the great Irving Crane admitted that when Mosconi was on, he couldn't be beat by anybody. If you left him ANY shot, even a hard one, he would make it and run out every time. The psychology of that is extremely powerful and he simply crushed everyone, every game, every time. And that's the irony of Mosconi, he both promoted the game of billiards while at the same time did damage to it by being so good that people simply gave up.
 
Mosconi's long run

Eufemia claimed 625; Ohio's Tom Parker claimed 642; Cranfield claimed 769. But all those runs were practice runs (Mosconi's took place in an exhibition match in Springfield, Ohio) and there were no witnesses who saw any of those feats executed from beginning to end. Cranfield's co-author, attorney Laurence Moy, says, "If Babe says he ran 769, he ran 769." GF
 
stevekur1 said:
Hey,

I was cleaning out the house prepping for a Garage Sale, and i came across a Guinness Sports Record book from 78-79

And they say that the Longest Pool Run was 625 in 1960 by Michael Eufemia, is this really true? Or was this a different version of the game of Straight Pool?

Need Some Insight!

Steve
Click to expand...

Love the dog bones in that Q-8!
 
Just thought I'd throw in the fact that Mosconi's 526 was on an 8 ft table with bucket pockets. Not to take anything away from Willie, but a run of 400 now on a 4 1/2" pocketed table might be an equal accomplishment. Of course, there are other factors too such as congestion, rails, and cloth, but all in all it was still a great run. I think we'll see the record broken before long...Tom
 
Wonder how many Mosconi ran when no one was looking? Anybody know if he ever answered this question?
 
The record is a novelty, not the real measure of Mosconi's greatness as a straight pool player. The real measure is his record of dominating all competitors back when straight pool was the championship game.

As far as I'm concerned, the record has already been broken. Babe Cranfield ran 768 in practice on a 9 foot table. I'm not calling him a liar, so I have to believe he did it. He was an outstanding player but when it counted, Mosconi nearly always beat him in competition.

In one of Freddy's books he tells of how Mosconi played three exhibition games in a Chicago pool hall in the 60's, one of which was against Freddy. If I remember correctly, Mosconi ran 200 and out twice. If he really wanted to set break his 526 he could have done it. But that wouldn't have put money in Willie's pocket - he already had the big record, the bragging rights, and he wasn't one to hang around and play pool for fun. Money was the reason he chalked his cue.
 
Willie's Game

In his book Willie's Game, Mosconi talks about the characteristic of a true champion. It's one who plays the game over and over, against any player, in any pool hall, and wins the majority of the time, no matter what. When Willie reached dead stroke at the top of his game, he won in such high percentages that he never even came close to losing a match.

You have to remember, he traveled on the road 300+ days a year, doing 2 to 3 exhibitions a day, for more than 10 years. He was paid by Brunswick to do this to promote their products, something that is not done any longer. It was mentioned in one of the other posts that he practiced 8-10 hours a day, but he didn't. He almost NEVER practiced. He didn't have to, he was playing so many real matches, he wouldn't have had time to practice if he wanted to. Plus, he felt practice took off a players edge, you cannot win against yourself and he, above all else, wanted to win, and win big. His favorite quote was "When you have the knife in your opponent, twist it." Don't give them a chance no matter who they are.
 
In all of those challenge matches he played against Jimmy Caras and Irving Crane, he never came close to losing. The scores were ridiculous, like 2000-950, 3600-1550, etc, he was more than doubling the points of his rivals. That says it all right there.
 
Rich93 said:
he already had the big record, the bragging rights, and he wasn't one to hang around and play pool for fun. Money was the reason he chalked his cue.
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I question that. I'd question it even if I got sent back in time and he walked up and told me that himself to his face. You don't play like that and crush the competition just to ensure your paycheck. You get the paycheck even if you stop running 'em at 200. Even if you miss a ball every so often. To play like he did, there has to be more love for the game than love of money.
 
No love

In his words, it was a job, and he hated losing in anything he did. He picked up golf for many years, and did extremely well, but hated losing in that also. In his book, he mentions many times that he didn't love the game, or even enjoy it, but he couldn't stomach the idea of losing in anything, ever. Also, he played from a very early age so it never offered him any novelty once he matured into adulthood. This is typical of many athletes who start as children, they take it for granted and never remember a time when it wasn't just a job or chore. He got paid very well by Brunswick to tour, it was a job. When he won tournaments, he got the prize $, but he also kept his name out there so he could continue to tour for Brunswick.

At one time, during the worst part of the depression, he was making 100% of the $ for his entire family playing pool. When he lost, they literally didn't eat, and it caused him to fear losing more than anything else in his life.
 
Thomas McKane said:
In his words, it was a job, and he hated losing in anything he did. He picked up golf for many years, and did extremely well, but hated losing in that also. In his book, he mentions many times that he didn't love the game, or even enjoy it, but he couldn't stomach the idea of losing in anything, ever. Also, he played from a very early age so it never offered him any novelty once he matured into adulthood. This is typical of many athletes who start as children, they take it for granted and never remember a time when it wasn't just a job or chore. He got paid very well by Brunswick to tour, it was a job. When he won tournaments, he got the prize $, but he also kept his name out there so he could continue to tour for Brunswick.

At one time, during the worst part of the depression, he was making 100% of the $ for his entire family playing pool. When he lost, they literally didn't eat, and it caused him to fear losing more than anything else in his life.
Click to expand...

You said it very well.

Not every champion felt that way, however. In the interview below Joe Balsis said that he practiced 8-10 hours a day, that he's rather play pool than eat. But, as I remember, Mosconi said that his table at home was mainly used by his wife to pile laundry on.

http://vintagevideojoebalsis.blogspot.com/2008/04/joe-balsis-interview-with-mort-luby-jr.html
 
There was no doubt in my mind that mosconi wasnt the best ever. i was just a little confused that the Guinness Book had this info if it wasnt certified.

If thats the case then yesterday i ran a 1178, put me on the high run list for the next few years.......LOL


If thats all it takes to get in the Guinness, i think the records for everything would be alot higher !

Steve
 
Mosconi's 526 is the highest verified run. Eufemia's run wasn't witnessed by any one person from beginning to end. Cranfield's 768 also wasn't witnessed by any one person from beginning to end, in fact it didn't even occur all in one day...he supposedly ran about 400 one night and stopped and then continued the next day! A great achievement but not really one run.

Even with these other players maybe having higher runs, it doesn't make them better players than Mosconi. Mosconi completely dominated in a way only Greenleaf before him had. He won countless championships under pressure which many players just are unable to do. Look at Eufemia, technically as perfect a 14.1 player as there ever was but he couldn't play at all under pressure. He would run 300 balls in practice the night before a pro event and then literally couldn't run 2 racks in the match because of nerves.

Babe Cranfield, although he did handle his nerves a little better than Eufemia, still only won one World Title, with his talent he should have won many more than that.

I saw Mosconi play after he was retired and a little past his best and he was still better than anyone I've ever seen play to this day. He was as good at 14.1 as Efren is at one pocket.
 
stevekur1 said:
There was no doubt in my mind that mosconi wasnt the best ever. i was just a little confused that the Guinness Book had this info if it wasnt certified.

If thats the case then yesterday i ran a 1178, put me on the high run list for the next few years.......LOL


If thats all it takes to get in the Guinness, i think the records for everything would be alot higher !

Steve
Click to expand...

From what I understand, Eufemia had the high run until Guinness changed their requirements for verifying records. As the amount of verified witnesses didn't fulfill the requirements, the record reverted to Mosconi's 526. There were apparently witnesses to the 625 run, but apparently no one person saw the entire thing.

P.S. Ever notice that Eufemia's 625 is Mosconi's run backwards? Spooky.
 
Great Interview.

Rich93 said:
You said it very well.

Not every champion felt that way, however. In the interview below Joe Balsis said that he practiced 8-10 hours a day, that he's rather play pool than eat. But, as I remember, Mosconi said that his table at home was mainly used by his wife to pile laundry on.

http://vintagevideojoebalsis.blogspot.com/2008/04/joe-balsis-interview-with-mort-luby-jr.html
Click to expand...

Great interview with Joe Balsis. What a gentleman. I feel the same way about practicing & not having to gamble. It was good to hear that from someone that I have so much respect for.
When I was 14 or 15 years old. My friend Alan & I would play 14-1 every day, b/c that was the best game that everyone played in NY.
Anyways, Alan's father owned a big company and along with his partner. They received two invites to join a high dollar country club on Long Island.
Willie Mosconi was there to promote people into joining. Alan & I went and I said I was the son of Alan's father partner. We had lunch with Willie and he treated us like Gold. Really talked to us a lot, maybe b/c we were the only kids there. At one point he said "now I am going to run 150 balls in a row without missing". Everyone was watching and he ran 150 and then put down his cue. It was unbelievable. Also at that time there was a beer commercial on Tv that Willie did trick shots as they talked about the beer. The last shot Willie hits the cue ball down the table, it hits the bottom rail, jumps up in the air and comes back at him like someone threw it at him and he catches it. My first question to him was how did you do that. He showed me how and I can do it but not like him with such speed.
I asked him how did you become so good. He told me that he lived in pool rooms everyday of his Life. He then stated that I should not do what he had done and it was best to go to school and get a good job. He told me that he never knew a pool player that was rich from playing pool. I never forgot what he told me and it did help in my Life. I will always have respect for men like that.
 
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This is an interesting thread. Some of what I learned about Babe Cranfield relates to what people are discussing.

Whenever I spoke with Babe about Mosconi, Babe always gave Mosconi a lot of credit and respect. Babe said that Mosconi's gift was in his ability to see so much on the table, and how naturally he knew what to shoot and what routes to take. They were a little different in that Babe loved the game and played it recreationally from childhood to old age for the sheer enjoyment of it, even when he wasn't playing pool for a living. As George Fels has pointed out, for Mosconi, the game was a job and a means to an end.

Babe could have won more tournaments had he maintained a continuous professional pool career. After reading through reams of tournament results, Charlie Ursitti described it to me this way: Babe really had two pool careers. One when he was a young man, starting in the 1930s, and another when he came back into the game in the early 60s. In between, Babe had a business career and started a family. He envied Irving Crane since, although Crane had a job selling Cadillacs, the owner of the dealership was a real pool buff who gave Crane a lot of leeway to practice and travel to play. Babe's bosses weren't quite as understanding. Babe didn't get back to playing professionally until the early 60s, thanks to the resurgence created by "The Hustler."

When Babe became World Champion in 1964, he was 49 years old! I have to check the newspaper clippings and correspondence, but by the either the next year or the year after that, Babe had to quit pool again due to the demands of his regular job.

I'm not challenging that Mosconi was the dominant player of the era, but I obviously take issue with the notion that Babe didn't win more tournaments because of his nerves. He was nervous when he won! He got all sorts of press attention b/c he had a million superstitious mannerisms, needed to move the chalk around the table, and spin around with body english during his matches. He was definitely a superstitious, jittery guy, but, apparently, he was that way when he was cashing in and winning tournaments.

Even with all of his gifts, Babe was sort of an everyman player. He didn't do as well when he didn't get as much of a chance to play as he would have liked, just like all the rest of us who work at our jobs during most of our time, or take care of our parents, or take care of our kids. But when he had the time to turn his attention fully to pool, he came in second in the World's Professional Championship, and, the next year, he became World Champion by defeating Luther Lassiter. The score was 1,200 to 730.
 
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