Mosconi's 526 record...Who could break it???

[Boro Nut]

From the RSB FAQ, and probably from the UK billiards site:

The most consecutive pocketed balls was on a snooker (billiard) table in England in 1890. William Peall made 721 consecutive red balls at
English billiards. That particular strategy is now outlawed.
​

Thanks Bob. But Peall's record is 634 consecutive reds, made in 1885. In 1890 he made 3174 points of a 3304 break by potting the red - equating to 1058 pot reds in the break, but only 400 at most were consecutive. If he did indeed make 721 consecutive reds in the same year (unlikely) it can't have been in recognised competition or on validated equipment, as it's not mentioned in the notable achievements in the official B&SCC Handbook & Rules where I lifted the information. The current limitation is 15 pots (45 points max) by-the-way.

Boro Nut

 

[Bob Jewett]

There is going to be some 14.1 high run competition going on at the Derby City Classic. It is in Louisville Jan 6-14. I don't know the details but from what I hear it is going to be exciting! I'm sure more info will be coming in near future.

Mark Griffin

The current plan, subject to change, is:

4 days of prelims on six tables. $50 entry for three tries. Each try begins with a 14-ball rack and the 15th ball and the cue ball in hand. Each try ends on a miss or foul. A run of 40 in the prelims gets you one try in the finals, 80 two tries, 120 three tries, and 160 four tries. Only your highest run in the prelims counts, so three runs of 42 only gets you one try in the finals. After 160 in the prelims, you can continue for the record. You may enter the quals more than once unless you have run 160 or more already.

One or two days of finals. You shoot as many tries (1-4) as you earned with your best run in the prelims. Order will probably be by the number of tries (1's first, 4's last).

Prizes ($10k added, entries 100% returned):

Prelims: 1st $1500, 2nd $1000, 3rd $500

Finals: 1st $2000, 2nd $1500, 3rd $1000, 4th $500.

Bonus: $2000 for high run overall.

The above payouts are with no entries and will be higher according to the final number of entries. With 200 entries, the amounts above are doubled.

Each player can receive only one payout in each of the two phases (prelims and finals), even if he has multiple high runs in one phase.

 

[sjm]

Do you all herein know what Ervolino would have done to any of these modern players playing Straight Pool on a four inch pocketed table for big money? Or Liscotti?

About eight years ago here in NYC, Mika Immonen beat Ervolino into submission in two consecutive races to 150 on a very tight table playing straight pool. I know, because I was Mika's stakehorse that day. Ervolino immediately predicted greatness for Mika, and he was right.....And all of us in NYC know that both Tony Robles and Dan Barouty are big favorites over Mika in straight pool.

Yes, I realize that it was not Johnny in his prime, but I saw Johnny play straight pool in the late 1960's, and he hadn't slipped too far from his highest form. Even three years ago, Johnny was still running 100 balls twice a week.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Thanks Bob. But Peall's record is 634 consecutive reds, made in 1885. In 1890 he made 3174 points of a 3304 break by potting the red - equating to 1058 pot reds in the break, but only 400 at most were consecutive. If he did indeed make 721 consecutive reds in the same year (unlikely) it can't have been in recognised competition or on validated equipment, as it's not mentioned in the notable achievements in the official B&SCC Handbook & Rules where I lifted the information. The current limitation is 15 pots (45 points max) by-the-way.

Boro Nut

Joseph Bennett claims otherwise for Peall in

http://www.eaba.co.uk/books/bennett/bennettBilliards1899.html

but he's not here to defend himself.

While it is unlikely, it is permitted to make more than 15 consecutive shots that pot the red ball. The real limitation is the number of consecutive pots permitted from the billiard spot (black spot to snooker players), which is limited to 2.

 

[DJKeys]

I believe this record was achieved on an 8 foot table...and there is nothing wrong with that of coarse. I would like to know your opinions of who you think could break this long time record. Please list only your absolute top 5 choices...Let's keep this one on the 9 foot table for exact purposes.

According to Willie on his tape, Mosconi's World of Pocket Billiards, he did it on a 5X10 and quit after 2 1/2 hours because he was tired. He inferred that he did not miss. I saw him give an exhibition in New Brunswick NJ and he ran 187 in that in about 50 minutes. In my opinion, he had the best cueball control of any player. He was literally running around the table setting up for the next shot before the cue ball stopped moving.

Bill Staton on one of the accu-stats tapes (Zuglin VS Murphy) talks about a high run challenge so this record could be broken. My picks to do it would be:

Thomas Engert (already ran around 492)
Johnny Archer
Ralf Soquet
Mike Sigel
Mike Zuglan

 

[Bob Jewett]

According to Willie on his tape, Mosconi's World of Pocket Billiards, he did it on a 5X10 and quit after 2 1/2 hours because he was tired. ..

I guess he forgot what the affidavit said, and what the newspaper article said at the time. The table was a 4X8. He missed a ball to end the run. Maybe he was tired when he missed, but he missed.

Please note that Willie may well have said something else on the tape, but perhaps he misremembered or misspoke. In his biography, the table is a 4.5X9.

 

[Boro Nut]

I'm genuinely impresssed by your knowledge Bob.

Boro Nut

 

[DJKeys]

I guess he forgot what the affidavit said, and what the newspaper article said at the time. The table was a 4X8. He missed a ball to end the run. Maybe he was tired when he missed, but he missed.

Please note that Willie may well have said something else on the tape, but perhaps he misremembered or misspoke. In his biography, the table is a 4.5X9.

Correct. I just checked and he did not reference the 4x8 on that tape. It was the Invitational Dinner tape with Jimmy Caras where he disdained the 41/2x9 because it was so much smaller than the 5x10.

He did say that he just got tired, he didn't really say that he didn't miss a ball, and the commentator did not ask him

 

[Boro Nut]

According to Willie on his tape, Mosconi's World of Pocket Billiards, he did it on a 5X10 and quit after 2 1/2 hours because he was tired.

I read here somewhere that he claimed to have beaten the world snooker champion, presumably at snooker. I would be interested to know who that might have been.

Boro Nut

 

[macguy]

The 4x8 part is in the affidavit made at the time of the run. A link to the Smithsonian's on-line copy of the affidavit is item 22 on http://www.sfbilliards.com/misc.htm

The "did not happen" part might be based on some rumors that during the run at least one ball bounced from a pocket but was considered good. You need to weigh rumor against affidavit, I suppose. It is unfortunate that no one in the crowd had a video camera.

I would doubt there would have been a video camera back then, I know you are kidding. Joe Balsas told me he had played there and it was a very very easy table and he is not surprised so many balls were run on the table, it had bucket pockets. Had you ever heard that? That is not meant to take anything away from Mosconi, I saw him play dozens of times and he ran balls like it was nothing. He would run 70 or 80 balls before his cigarette burnt down. I saw him play 24 exhibitions in a row once, and he ran 100 plus every single match some 150 and out. I would go to the US open in Chicago almost every year and you would see just a few 100 plus runs all week. Mosconi did it every day afternoon and evening almost on command when he was on the road for Brunswick. Unless someone actually saw him play in person they can't believe how good he actually played.

 

[sniper]

It obviously depends on the equipment, but I certainly think Hohmann could do it and I wouldn't count out Engert or Schmidt either.

 

[macguy]

I read here somewhere that he claimed to have beaten the world snooker champion, presumably at snooker. I would be interested to know who that might have been.

Boro Nut

I saw him play Rex Williams in the early 70's and he did beat him a few matches of snooker. I don't think Williams won any of the pool matches. They played like a five stop, maybe more, tour of exibitions. I think I still have my ticket stub around somewhere. It was like $25. 00 to $50.00 a head to get in and they all sold out.

 

[pete lafond]

1. No One
2. Nobody
3. No One Jr.
4. Nobody II
5. No One III

Babe Cranfield had a much higher run on more than one occassion.

However today, didn't Ralph Souquet run 400+ on a 9'?

 

[Boro Nut]

I saw him play Rex Williams in the early 70's.

A 'slight' exageration then, shall we say.

Boro Nut

 

[Penrose Cues]

This is a list I copied from another forum:

These are only the runs of 300 and more...

625 Mike Eufemia USA
526 Willie Mosconi USA (rip 1993) 8foot, 1954
491 Thomas Engert Germany
408 Earl Strickland USA
406 Thorsten Hohmann Germany
400 John Schmidt USA
326 Oliver Ortmann Germany
326 Werner Duregger Austria
321 Oliver Ortmann Germany
321 Steve Mizerak USA
309 Irving Crane USA (10foot) in 1939
306 Per Anda Sweden

If anyone has additional runs over 300, please let me know...

Tom

 

[vapoolplayer]

This is a list I copied from another forum:

These are only the runs of 300 and more...

625 Mike Eufemia USA
526 Willie Mosconi USA (rip 1993) 8foot, 1954
491 Thomas Engert Germany
408 Earl Strickland USA
406 Thorsten Hohmann Germany
400 John Schmidt USA
326 Oliver Ortmann Germany
326 Werner Duregger Austria
321 Oliver Ortmann Germany
321 Steve Mizerak USA
309 Irving Crane USA (10foot) in 1939
306 Per Anda Sweden

If anyone has additional runs over 300, please let me know...

Tom

thats an insanely short list. many many more people who've run over 300

VAP

 

[drivermaker]

thats an insanely short list. many many more people who've run over 300

VAP

Allen Hopkins told me that he ran over 400...I forget whether it was 404 or 410....something like that.

Tight pockets or large pockets...it's a tremendous feat to just run 150! All it takes is ONE bad break or shitty roll with the CB getting stuck and nothing to shoot at and it's over. And that can happen at any time to any one, I don't care who the player is.

If the guys listed as potential record breakers can do it...then they should just do it, OR already have done it. But it's not that easy. It's actually brutal!

 

[vapoolplayer]

Allen Hopkins told me that he ran over 400...I forget whether it was 404 or 410....something like that.

Tight pockets or large pockets...it's a tremendous feat to just run 150! All it takes is ONE bad break or shitty roll with the CB getting stuck and nothing to shoot at and it's over. And that can happen at any time to any one, I don't care who the player is.

If the guys listed as potential record breakers can do it...then they should just do it, OR already have done it. But it's not that easy. It's actually brutal!

i ran 500 once.......wait, that was in high school track..........

i have run 5 balls before though, guess i'm up there with whats his name the super science geek pool player who runs 4-5 balls consistently......

VAP

 

[rocky]

I was having dinner with Thorston in Vegas after the BCA open and we were having a descusion about the European championships and straght pool. Thorston told me that if I gave him three chances he could run a 150 in ten minutes and did it often just for practice. These guys amaze me. I know that it is far from being record breaking (except for my own) but man, you gotta respect all of these guys!

 

[Voodoo Daddy]

This is a list I copied from another forum:

These are only the runs of 300 and more...

625 Mike Eufemia USA
526 Willie Mosconi USA (rip 1993) 8foot, 1954
491 Thomas Engert Germany
408 Earl Strickland USA
406 Thorsten Hohmann Germany
400 John Schmidt USA
326 Oliver Ortmann Germany
326 Werner Duregger Austria
321 Oliver Ortmann Germany
321 Steve Mizerak USA
309 Irving Crane USA (10foot) in 1939
306 Per Anda Sweden

If anyone has additional runs over 300, please let me know...

Tom

I wanna say it was 2 years ago, Johnny Ervolino ran 350+ at the ripe age of 68!!! In Ny somewhere...someone help out?