For sale? Nope.
I just want to know how much more when I come across another one or two. :wink:
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Most you would spend on a shaft?
- Thread starter Shooter08
- Start date
For sale? Nope.
I just want to know how much more when I come across another one or two. :wink:
.
I have already shot with one. :wink: Just recently in fact.
I am very happy with my old Joss, thanks. And getting original shafts for that is in fact more difficult than Searing IMHO. LOL!
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Ageed. 250 for me. I could possibly justify more though. I dont play with low def super shafts though.
Their on sale now for around the $200 range. I paid closer to $300. I like L.D. shafts.
http://www.billiardwarehouse.com/cues/predator/z-2_shafts.htm
MalibuMike
Banned
I've tried just about every shaft out there & money is not an object
And as far as LD shafts go, I'm sticking to Tiger Pro-X 30" 11.75, and Tiger Pro-X "Carom" 30" 12.25mm. I have paid up to $400 for a shaft from Mezz and BD360/2 "Custom" with Ivory ferrule, Fury EXII, OB Plus and OB minus... The Jacoby Edge is a good shaft if you get the correct dimensions and stay away from "Pro" tapers.
The Tiger Pro-X is less expensive at $220 then any Predator or Jacoby and is made in Los Angeles Ca. Anyone can go and see how the shaft is made. Its has lower deflection and no hollow parts, solid wood Core with laminations around it to give it radial consistency, which gives it that awesome solid cue feel.
For Breaking I use a Mezz Deep Impact II $400 with a Toam Tip.
The 2 shafts at the bottom are all that's in my case now, along with the Mezz Deep Impact.
And as far as LD shafts go, I'm sticking to Tiger Pro-X 30" 11.75, and Tiger Pro-X "Carom" 30" 12.25mm. I have paid up to $400 for a shaft from Mezz and BD360/2 "Custom" with Ivory ferrule, Fury EXII, OB Plus and OB minus... The Jacoby Edge is a good shaft if you get the correct dimensions and stay away from "Pro" tapers.
The Tiger Pro-X is less expensive at $220 then any Predator or Jacoby and is made in Los Angeles Ca. Anyone can go and see how the shaft is made. Its has lower deflection and no hollow parts, solid wood Core with laminations around it to give it radial consistency, which gives it that awesome solid cue feel.
For Breaking I use a Mezz Deep Impact II $400 with a Toam Tip.
The 2 shafts at the bottom are all that's in my case now, along with the Mezz Deep Impact.
Attachments
My 2 cents.....
Here's what I figure.......if that matters to anyone else.
A cue shaft for a production cue from the mfr. should cost anywhere from $125 to $175 depending on the cue brand. If you want ivory ferrules etc, figure more like $200-$250. If a custom cue-maker is involved, you should figure $175 to $250 for the shaft and if fancy matching ring work is involved, add another $100 to $125/$150. The top price I can see paying for a cue shaft is $400 to $450 tops but that's with really fancy ringwork. Without the added labor, and that would require returning my cue butt so the shafts would be an identical match, then $300 is top price I'd pay.
I know that the crafting of a shaft can involve extended periods to taper the shaft but that's machine time......and the cost of the aged wood.......but every good cue-maker deals with that......it's always comes down to time and materials, more so with making a shaft. How much does a cue-maker value his time at and how does he either cost his time or bill his time because aside from the wood cost and other materials, it's just shop time.
Low deflection shafts are a creature of their own and I know little to nothing about the construction or durability of these cue shafts. I tend to think consistent performance is more likely as the shaft is fabricated versus wood being reduced. So those shafts can be priced at whatever the market will bear and should not be included in this discussion even when cue-makers make matching collars.
Having shared my views, the reader may or may not concur with anything or portions of what I've written. However, it is the underlying basis why I am really intrigued with Dennis Searing cue shafts. Obviously, his cue making talents are considered superb and shafts are certainly part of making a cue. I've also read that Searing makes outstanding cue shafts.....some claim them to be the best. In fact, Tom can likely vouch for that as a new owner of a Searing shaft for his Runde cue.....which looks great by the way.
So whereas I'd pay up to $400 to $450 range for a shaft with a matching fancy collar shaft, I 'd might stretch another $50 if it was a Searing shaft but that would be really overpriced if the Searing shaft did not also involve matching fancy ring work. I just can't imagine that the wood Mr. Searing uses is a better selection of wood that what's used by some of the other top names in cue-making that I do not own. Aside from the wood, I am at a loss to comprehend why there might be any differentiation in shaft performance and so why would a higher price be warranted? The obvious conclusion is because the market will support that price.......so is it more of a situation of charge what the market will bear or is the quality superior to other top name cue-makers?
I look forward to reading posts by others more knowledgeable about cue-making and cue shafts than myself and really appreciate that Shooter08 started this thread.
TX,
Matt B.
Here's what I figure.......if that matters to anyone else.
A cue shaft for a production cue from the mfr. should cost anywhere from $125 to $175 depending on the cue brand. If you want ivory ferrules etc, figure more like $200-$250. If a custom cue-maker is involved, you should figure $175 to $250 for the shaft and if fancy matching ring work is involved, add another $100 to $125/$150. The top price I can see paying for a cue shaft is $400 to $450 tops but that's with really fancy ringwork. Without the added labor, and that would require returning my cue butt so the shafts would be an identical match, then $300 is top price I'd pay.
I know that the crafting of a shaft can involve extended periods to taper the shaft but that's machine time......and the cost of the aged wood.......but every good cue-maker deals with that......it's always comes down to time and materials, more so with making a shaft. How much does a cue-maker value his time at and how does he either cost his time or bill his time because aside from the wood cost and other materials, it's just shop time.
Low deflection shafts are a creature of their own and I know little to nothing about the construction or durability of these cue shafts. I tend to think consistent performance is more likely as the shaft is fabricated versus wood being reduced. So those shafts can be priced at whatever the market will bear and should not be included in this discussion even when cue-makers make matching collars.
Having shared my views, the reader may or may not concur with anything or portions of what I've written. However, it is the underlying basis why I am really intrigued with Dennis Searing cue shafts. Obviously, his cue making talents are considered superb and shafts are certainly part of making a cue. I've also read that Searing makes outstanding cue shafts.....some claim them to be the best. In fact, Tom can likely vouch for that as a new owner of a Searing shaft for his Runde cue.....which looks great by the way.
So whereas I'd pay up to $400 to $450 range for a shaft with a matching fancy collar shaft, I 'd might stretch another $50 if it was a Searing shaft but that would be really overpriced if the Searing shaft did not also involve matching fancy ring work. I just can't imagine that the wood Mr. Searing uses is a better selection of wood that what's used by some of the other top names in cue-making that I do not own. Aside from the wood, I am at a loss to comprehend why there might be any differentiation in shaft performance and so why would a higher price be warranted? The obvious conclusion is because the market will support that price.......so is it more of a situation of charge what the market will bear or is the quality superior to other top name cue-makers?
I look forward to reading posts by others more knowledgeable about cue-making and cue shafts than myself and really appreciate that Shooter08 started this thread.
TX,
Matt B.
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I tend to agree with almost everything Matt said above. I did pay a premium for the shaft I purchased because I could only find one for sale and was able to justify the cost as I sold a cue I made a couple bucks on to purchase it. After shooting with it for a few days, I could not part with it
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Why the attitude towards someone's opinion? Was it because of the Scruggs comment or the LD comment? I agree that LD shafts are total garbage. Does that make me a nit as well?
I'll preface this with saying, any shaft that I bought would have just a basic collar with maybe a silver ring, so there is no fancy ring work involved.
With that said, the only thing the shaft would consist of is: collar, insert (if applicable for type of pin), ferrule (non-ivory), tip, and the shaft blank.
I know what, or close to what, each part of the shaft costs if I were to buy them individually so the only item that would set the shaft apart from any other shaft made by anybody else is the piece of shaft wood itself and its taper.
Why is there such a differential in prices between makers? I can understand name, and I can understand some wood is better than other pieces, but I can't understand what one person can supposedly do different, or better, to justify the great variances in price. Since nobody can agree that one person makes the "very, very BESTEST" shaft, the difference seems to be based upon name alone.
I think $250 would be about my limit that I would pay for any custom maple shaft from anybody, unless somebody could convince me that it was "the one for me and nothing could be better for me". So far, that hasn't been done.
With that said, the only thing the shaft would consist of is: collar, insert (if applicable for type of pin), ferrule (non-ivory), tip, and the shaft blank.
I know what, or close to what, each part of the shaft costs if I were to buy them individually so the only item that would set the shaft apart from any other shaft made by anybody else is the piece of shaft wood itself and its taper.
Why is there such a differential in prices between makers? I can understand name, and I can understand some wood is better than other pieces, but I can't understand what one person can supposedly do different, or better, to justify the great variances in price. Since nobody can agree that one person makes the "very, very BESTEST" shaft, the difference seems to be based upon name alone.
I think $250 would be about my limit that I would pay for any custom maple shaft from anybody, unless somebody could convince me that it was "the one for me and nothing could be better for me". So far, that hasn't been done.
This brings back memories of being at Tim Scruggs shop. He had a box of shafts that were turned in that he sold for maybe 10 dollars each. It was fun to pick through them.
Onto the price I would pay, it depends on the maker, and the fact that I only play with Ivory Ferrules and plain old school shafts (no LD for me), so I would have a bit more of an uncharge. I got spoiled for years, as Tim took care of me. I needed a third shaft, and I got one, out of the goodness of his heart.
Had an eye opening experience wanting to get a third shaft for a non Scruggs cue I owned to find out it was going to be 3 bills. I said well that is with an ivory ferrule right?......wrong, and it was priced with a triangle tip as well.
I passed on the deal.
Onto the price I would pay, it depends on the maker, and the fact that I only play with Ivory Ferrules and plain old school shafts (no LD for me), so I would have a bit more of an uncharge. I got spoiled for years, as Tim took care of me. I needed a third shaft, and I got one, out of the goodness of his heart.
Had an eye opening experience wanting to get a third shaft for a non Scruggs cue I owned to find out it was going to be 3 bills. I said well that is with an ivory ferrule right?......wrong, and it was priced with a triangle tip as well.
I passed on the deal.
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Being that my cue is one of one hundred made at $1,400 each, I would pay $300 for a shaft with the matching rings.
There's more common agreement than disagreement on the general price range of the shafts from what I'm discerning.
Let me toss a curve ball into the foray........would you still buy the shaft if you did not like the weight?
Personally speaking, the weight of the cue shaft is an important criterion for buying & enjoying its play.
There are probably lots of opinions about what's the favorite diameter or perhaps the ideal thickness.
And obviously taper length plays a big influence on the cue shaft's ultimate final weight......heck, even
a 1" ivory ferrule can add a bit of extra weight.......as would any brass fitting in the shaft itself.
I try to avoid cue shafts with what I consider to be a lighter weight. I've found the same size shaft with a similar taper in a heavier weight felt different and played better than a comparable shaft in a lighter weight. I dunno if anyone else out there has had a similar experience or shares my preference for heavier weight shafts. It stands to reason that a 13mm shaft should weigh more than a 12.5mm shaft but how much more? And if you tinkered with the ferrule materials, tips and taper of the shaft, there'd be other little subtle tweaks to the shaft's weight.
I figure that the brass in a piloted cue shaft adds approx. 1/3 ounce ....might be a bit high......I prefer my cue shafts to be 12.75mm with an elongated taper resulting in a weight of 3.8ozs or heavier. My 13mm shafts should be 4.0 ozs, preferably even heavier, and all my cue shafts are flat faced so if the shafts were actually piloted, the weight would be heavier. What is the minimum weight I'd consider in a flat faced shaft, >3.5 ozs. If the shaft was exactly 3.5 ozs, it would be a think it over situation only because it's a standard I established from past experimentation with different cue shafts.
Now I realize this probably portrays me as a really tight ass minded cue owner. It's really not the case at all but it does reflect what I willing to spend my money on which is merely cues that coincide with what I've found generally works best. I am the same way about cue weight and a couple of Azers have since posted on the Forum they switched to lighter weight ivory joint cues and the are really enjoying the difference. It goes without saying what's good for the goose does not have to be good for the gander and everyone should play what they like. As you experiment with pool cues, play attention to the anatomy and differences with the various cues and the specs......learn what feels best to you.
There are pool players on the Forum that don"t care if the cue is over 21 ounces or under 19 ounces and tend to play the same with either type cue. You can simply adjust your hand position to consistently attain the pendulum that feels the best and shoot that way with the heavier pool cue. Well, I am not one of those players. I have a special Runde Schon cue that never gets played because it's almost 2 ounces heavier than my other pool cues. Anyway, the weight of the pool cue is as important to me as the weight of the pool cue shaft. That's why I closely match the specs of the pool cues in my small collection and that's not easy to accomplish In fact, this practice has interfered and kept me from with adding some great cues the last few years.
So back to the topic of cue shafts.......... Would you buy a cue shaft if it was too light and what the heck would too light mean to you....3.2-3.3 ozs for a 13mm shaft?
Matt B.
Let me toss a curve ball into the foray........would you still buy the shaft if you did not like the weight?
Personally speaking, the weight of the cue shaft is an important criterion for buying & enjoying its play.
There are probably lots of opinions about what's the favorite diameter or perhaps the ideal thickness.
And obviously taper length plays a big influence on the cue shaft's ultimate final weight......heck, even
a 1" ivory ferrule can add a bit of extra weight.......as would any brass fitting in the shaft itself.
I try to avoid cue shafts with what I consider to be a lighter weight. I've found the same size shaft with a similar taper in a heavier weight felt different and played better than a comparable shaft in a lighter weight. I dunno if anyone else out there has had a similar experience or shares my preference for heavier weight shafts. It stands to reason that a 13mm shaft should weigh more than a 12.5mm shaft but how much more? And if you tinkered with the ferrule materials, tips and taper of the shaft, there'd be other little subtle tweaks to the shaft's weight.
I figure that the brass in a piloted cue shaft adds approx. 1/3 ounce ....might be a bit high......I prefer my cue shafts to be 12.75mm with an elongated taper resulting in a weight of 3.8ozs or heavier. My 13mm shafts should be 4.0 ozs, preferably even heavier, and all my cue shafts are flat faced so if the shafts were actually piloted, the weight would be heavier. What is the minimum weight I'd consider in a flat faced shaft, >3.5 ozs. If the shaft was exactly 3.5 ozs, it would be a think it over situation only because it's a standard I established from past experimentation with different cue shafts.
Now I realize this probably portrays me as a really tight ass minded cue owner. It's really not the case at all but it does reflect what I willing to spend my money on which is merely cues that coincide with what I've found generally works best. I am the same way about cue weight and a couple of Azers have since posted on the Forum they switched to lighter weight ivory joint cues and the are really enjoying the difference. It goes without saying what's good for the goose does not have to be good for the gander and everyone should play what they like. As you experiment with pool cues, play attention to the anatomy and differences with the various cues and the specs......learn what feels best to you.
There are pool players on the Forum that don"t care if the cue is over 21 ounces or under 19 ounces and tend to play the same with either type cue. You can simply adjust your hand position to consistently attain the pendulum that feels the best and shoot that way with the heavier pool cue. Well, I am not one of those players. I have a special Runde Schon cue that never gets played because it's almost 2 ounces heavier than my other pool cues. Anyway, the weight of the pool cue is as important to me as the weight of the pool cue shaft. That's why I closely match the specs of the pool cues in my small collection and that's not easy to accomplish In fact, this practice has interfered and kept me from with adding some great cues the last few years.
So back to the topic of cue shafts.......... Would you buy a cue shaft if it was too light and what the heck would too light mean to you....3.2-3.3 ozs for a 13mm shaft?
Matt B.
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There's more common agreement than disagreement on the general price range of the shafts from what I'm discerning.
Let me toss a curve ball into the foray........would you still buy the shaft if you did not like the weight?
Personally speaking, the weight of the cue shaft is an important criterion for buying & enjoying its play.
There are probably lots of opinions about what's the favorite diameter or perhaps the ideal thickness.
And obviously taper length plays a big influence on the cue shaft's ultimate final weight......heck, even
a 1" ivory ferrule can add a bit of extra weight.......as would any brass fitting in the cue joint.
I try to avoid cue shafts with what I consider to be a lighter weight. I've found the same size shaft with a similar taper in a heavier weight felt different and played better than a comparable shaft in a lighter weight. I dunno if anyone else out there has had a similar experience or shares my preference for heavier weight shafts. It stands to reason that a 13mm shaft should weigh more than a 12.5mm shaft but how much more? And if you tinkered with the ferrule materials, tips and taper of the shaft, there'd be other little subtle tweaks to the shaft's weight.
I figure that the brass in a piloted cue shaft adds approx. 1/3 ounce ....might be a bit high......I prefer my cue shafts to be 12.75mm with an elongated taper resulting in a weight of 3.8ozs or heavier. My 13mm shafts should be 4.0 ozs and all my cue shafts are flat faced so if the shafts were actually piloted, the weight would be heavier. Is there a minimum weight I'd consider in a flat faced shaft......Yup, >3.5 ozs. If the shaft was exactly 3.5 ozs, it would be a think it over situation for me merely because it's a standard established from my past experimentation with different cue shafts over decades.
Now I realize this probably portrays me as a really tight ass minded cue owner. It's really not the case at all but it does reflect what I willing to spend my money on which is merely cues that coincide with what I've found generally works best. I am the same way about cue weight and a couple of Azers have since posted on the Forum they switched to lighter weight ivory joint cues and the are really enjoying the difference. It goes without saying what's good for the goose does not have to be good for the gander and everyone should play what they like. As you experiment with pool cues, play attention to the anatomy and differences with the various cues and the specs......learn what feels best to you.
There are pool players on the Forum that don"t care if the cue is over 21 ounces or under 19 ounces and tend to play the same with either type cue. You can simply adjust your hand position to consistently attain the pendulum that feels the best and shoot that way with the heavier pool cue. Well, I am not one of those players. I have a special Runde Schon cue that never gets played because it's almost 2 ounces heavier than my other pool cues. Anyway, the weight of the pool cue is as important to me as the weight of the pool cue shaft. That's why I closely match the specs of the pool cues in my small collection and that's not easy to accomplish. In fact, it's a practice that's interfered and kept me from with adding some great cues over recent years.
So back to the topic of cue shafts.......... Would you buy a cue shaft if it was too light and what the heck would too light mean to you....3.2-3.3 ozs for a 13mm shaft?
Matt B.
p.s. Not trying to hijack Tom's thread.....maybe responding Azers can consider framing their posts to address everything.
Let me toss a curve ball into the foray........would you still buy the shaft if you did not like the weight?
Personally speaking, the weight of the cue shaft is an important criterion for buying & enjoying its play.
There are probably lots of opinions about what's the favorite diameter or perhaps the ideal thickness.
And obviously taper length plays a big influence on the cue shaft's ultimate final weight......heck, even
a 1" ivory ferrule can add a bit of extra weight.......as would any brass fitting in the cue joint.
I try to avoid cue shafts with what I consider to be a lighter weight. I've found the same size shaft with a similar taper in a heavier weight felt different and played better than a comparable shaft in a lighter weight. I dunno if anyone else out there has had a similar experience or shares my preference for heavier weight shafts. It stands to reason that a 13mm shaft should weigh more than a 12.5mm shaft but how much more? And if you tinkered with the ferrule materials, tips and taper of the shaft, there'd be other little subtle tweaks to the shaft's weight.
I figure that the brass in a piloted cue shaft adds approx. 1/3 ounce ....might be a bit high......I prefer my cue shafts to be 12.75mm with an elongated taper resulting in a weight of 3.8ozs or heavier. My 13mm shafts should be 4.0 ozs and all my cue shafts are flat faced so if the shafts were actually piloted, the weight would be heavier. Is there a minimum weight I'd consider in a flat faced shaft......Yup, >3.5 ozs. If the shaft was exactly 3.5 ozs, it would be a think it over situation for me merely because it's a standard established from my past experimentation with different cue shafts over decades.
Now I realize this probably portrays me as a really tight ass minded cue owner. It's really not the case at all but it does reflect what I willing to spend my money on which is merely cues that coincide with what I've found generally works best. I am the same way about cue weight and a couple of Azers have since posted on the Forum they switched to lighter weight ivory joint cues and the are really enjoying the difference. It goes without saying what's good for the goose does not have to be good for the gander and everyone should play what they like. As you experiment with pool cues, play attention to the anatomy and differences with the various cues and the specs......learn what feels best to you.
There are pool players on the Forum that don"t care if the cue is over 21 ounces or under 19 ounces and tend to play the same with either type cue. You can simply adjust your hand position to consistently attain the pendulum that feels the best and shoot that way with the heavier pool cue. Well, I am not one of those players. I have a special Runde Schon cue that never gets played because it's almost 2 ounces heavier than my other pool cues. Anyway, the weight of the pool cue is as important to me as the weight of the pool cue shaft. That's why I closely match the specs of the pool cues in my small collection and that's not easy to accomplish. In fact, it's a practice that's interfered and kept me from with adding some great cues over recent years.
So back to the topic of cue shafts.......... Would you buy a cue shaft if it was too light and what the heck would too light mean to you....3.2-3.3 ozs for a 13mm shaft?
Matt B.
p.s. Not trying to hijack Tom's thread.....maybe responding Azers can consider framing their posts to address everything.
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I'm pretty sure he was kidding, based on another thread we has just been in. If not that's OK too! To elaborate on my price point though, maybe a year ago or so I found an old Scruggs that I had forgotten I had. It is without shaft as I noted. Since finding it I have been kinda looking around for a shafts or two for it. I had three options I was ( and still am ) considering. First having Bob Frey make me one as he would have been the one who made the original shaft, Leon Sly because I know him and he treats me good - and he has the original machinery from Timmy's shop including taper machine, or lastly trying to source an original TS shaft. The price I gave is what I KNOW I can get one made for AND over the past year I've ran across maybe a dozen original shafts and they have all been priced within that range. I haven't bought any of the originals yet because most of them have a collar ( which I don't want ) or I was not happy with the condition.
Not Hijacking!
Matt, I appreciate your input and by no means think you are hijacking. Actually I'm hoping more people will weigh in. Personally I have come to like a cue butt to weigh approx 15oz with a forward balance and a shaft over 4oz. If someone wants a killer shaft that fits a Schon Pilot, I have a Runde 13mm 4.3 oz old school micarta ferrule shaft in the for sale section. Anyway, I was hoping to bump this for more responses and opinions on why or what is desired is appreciated. Thx
Matt, I appreciate your input and by no means think you are hijacking. Actually I'm hoping more people will weigh in. Personally I have come to like a cue butt to weigh approx 15oz with a forward balance and a shaft over 4oz. If someone wants a killer shaft that fits a Schon Pilot, I have a Runde 13mm 4.3 oz old school micarta ferrule shaft in the for sale section. Anyway, I was hoping to bump this for more responses and opinions on why or what is desired is appreciated. Thx