My aiming system is guessing....who use the Guessing System?

R
7stud said:
When I first started practicing 14.1, I made the break ball less than 50% of the time. The Poolology geometry works well near the 1-ball in the diagram below, so to start a run I setup a 1/2 ball hit, which is easy to aim--you aim the center of the CB at the edge of the OB. You can try it and see if it works better than feel for you.

View attachment 732795

In the diagram, the 1-ball position value is 18 along the long rail, so I set up the CB so the line of centers between the CB and 1-ball points at 9 (= half of 18) along the end rail. Then I aim the center of the CB at the right edge of the 1-ball (a half ball hit) with topspin. If the OB position value was 16 along the long rail, then I would setup the CB so that the line of centers between the CB and OB hit the end rail at 8 (= half of 16). Likewise, if the OB position value was 20, then I would setup the CB so that the line of centers between the CB and OB hit the end rail at 10 (= half of 20). In the diagram above, the vertical position of the 1-ball is irrelevant, only it's horizontal position along the long rail determines the 1-ball's "position value".

My initial break ball make percentage shot up to around 80% after doing that.
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R U serious??
IDK why people make shit so complex. Why overthink this stuff??
Chinese arithmetic. All of it!!
This is an awesome game to play that requires repetitious movement and good hand/eye. Not turning your brain into squash trying to develop some concept or trick nobody else has ever seen nor thot of.
I guarantee somebody already has and might just call you out on it.
Your time is better spent focusing on stroke and aiming fundamentals instead of numbers on the rail and postings or whatever.
If you're having trouble w those type break shots, the easiest ones out there besides side pocket slammers, it's back to basics for you.
I'm climbing off my soapbox now.
Forgive me.
Arthur itis came calling earlier. Makes me grumpy old dude.😂
 
I just started reading the book Pleasures of Small Motions, and it appears that the best way to shoot is from the subconscious mind. After extensive practicing Through Time, making shots should come natural without much thinking about them. The more we use the conscious mind to think about things like a ghost ball, a line right through the center of the object ball to the pocket, and so on, these conscious thoughts interfere with the subconscious thought thoughts that are so capable of success. It's like driving a car 10 miles down the highway and not realizing how you got from the starting point to 10 miles later because it's all done pretty much subconsciously. Individuals drive a car so much with success that the subconscious mind can take over and do the job. It is the same in pool the more we rely on the subconscious to pot balls I think the better off we will be. The more we rely on conscious thoughts the more they interfere with all the subconscious thoughts that we have practice so extensively. With all this being said, I just know how and what angle to put on a ball by looking and just let it happen. I don't like using a ghost ball or the likes, because I have pocketed so many balls from every angle I should know how to do it without extensive thinking.
 
The_JV said:
I call bs...

If you look at the object ball and the pocket at any point, then you've instinctively developed a path (line) you want the ob to follow. Just because you haven't envisioned an imaginary red line to the pocket, doesn't mean you haven't developed that line (path) in which you want to the ob to follow.

I also think everyone is kidding themselves if they claim that don't envision a 'ghost ball' contact before pulling the trigger. You may not adhere to the ghost ball methodology, but you still are directing the CB toward the OB. Pretending that you don't imagine how the CB will strike the OB before pulling the trigger is either comical or a glaring error.

I know there are systems out there that do not rely on the above, but that doesn't mean you don't do those things in happenstance.

Flame on
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It's not really BS, it's just an unschooled player not knowing how to quantify or explain how aiming and shooting works. A lot of bar bangers I know can pocket balls, but they are totally incapable of teaching others because they have no idea of what methods and steps they take to play position of make a ball. It's like that story about a centipede that was asked how it was able to move all the legs without messing up, it thought about it and could not walk again. With a lot of blind repetition eventually someone will get better at a task without knowing why, but they will almost never get close to the level of someone that really understands and gets the process they use to get there.

At the end of it all, everyone uses the ghost ball method because that is the only way to hit the object ball to make it. How you tell yourself to get the cueball there is the learning and execution part. Guessing where to hit the ball is just guessing where you are putting the ghost ball.
 
hang-the-9 said:
At the end of it all, everyone uses the ghost ball method because that is the only way to hit the object ball to make it. How you tell yourself to get the cueball there is the learning and execution part. Guessing where to hit the ball is just guessing where you are putting the ghost ball.
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Sure, but that's only valid for the first shot a player will ever hit. Beyond that point it becomes a matter of adjustment based on the feedback of that first shot.

Besides the OP is selling a "guess" system. Which is BS. Just because you don't understand how the bull dropped the turd doesn't make it any less his crap.
 
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hang-the-9 said:
At the end of it all, everyone uses the ghost ball method because that is the only way to hit the object ball to make it. How you tell yourself to get the cueball there is the learning and execution part. Guessing where to hit the ball is just guessing where you are putting the ghost ball.
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There are those who can in fact imagine contact points based on the cut angle by standing directly behind the OB in a straight line to the target center pocket and seeing where the spot is. The image has to be kept clearly in mind and view while going back to the CB to link an equal and opposite contact point on it with the CB. In doing that, the overlap can also be seen between the two balls. So, imagination is required.

Another way to do it instead of imagining a ghost ball is by actually seeing the edge of the CB clearly against the OB as well as the center of the CB clearly on the OB simultaneously. In other words, if a half ball hit was required, the edge of the CB would be directly at the center of the OB and the center of the CB would be directly at the edge of the OB. It can be done for any and every shot on the table. You're not going to believe what this method of aiming is called. (OK, everybody in unison as I count to
three) ONE......TWO......THREE!!
 
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SpiderWebComm said:
There are those who can in fact imagine contact points based on the cut angle by standing directly behind the OB in a straight line to the target center pocket and seeing where the spot is. The image has to be kept clearly in mind and view while going back to the CB to link an equal and opposite contact point on it with the CB. In doing that, the overlap can also be seen between the two balls. So, imagination is required.

Another way to do it instead of imagining a ghost ball is by actually seeing the edge of the CB clearly against the OB as well as the center of the CB clearly on the OB simultaneously. In other words, if a half ball hit was required, the edge of the CB would be directly at the center of the OB and the center of the CB would be directly at the edge of the OB. It can be done for any and every shot on the table. You're not going to believe what this method of aiming is called. (OK, everybody in unison as I count to
three) ONE......TWO......THREE!!
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Yep, but this method also sends the cueball to the ghost ball position. No way around it, same location, different way. I don't aim at the ghost ball position per se, but I know how to send the cueball there based on shooting the shots thousands of times and finding the angle I need without much though or thinking. People use all sorts of conscious and subconscious ways to aim.
 
hang-the-9 said:
Yep, but this method also sends the cueball to the ghost ball position. No way around it, same location, different way.
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That would be correct, as well as perfectly aligned contact points, fractions and everything else.
hang-the-9 said:
I don't aim at the ghost ball position per se, but I know how to send the cueball there based on shooting the shots thousands of times and finding the angle I need without much though or thinking. People use all sorts of conscious and subconscious ways to aim.
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The difference is they're all imaginary whereas Center to edge has a clearly visible edge and clearly visible center on the CB that can be positioned on the entire visible side of the OB.
CJ Wiley has only TWO places to aim on the OB which is Center or Edge with the center of the CB. Center to center or center to Edge and then the tip positioned on the INSIDE of the CB at varying distances from center to create the angles as well as squirt. Balls definitely go in as illustrated below.

 
I think a lot just happens naturally. If I do a thin cut shot on 2 1/4 balls , and thwn again on 2 1/8" balls then my aim needs to change. I tend to just look where I want the balls to hit and not the imaginary ghost ball center point. Its off in space anyway.
In this instance since the ghost ball size would change, so would it center and so will the imaginary aiming point.
I also think that getting into your stroke may not be so instant, warmup helps you settle these things down and get into your groove.
 
snookered_again said:
I think a lot just happens naturally. If I do a thin cut shot on 2 1/4 balls , and thwn again on 2 1/8" balls then my aim needs to change. I tend to just look where I want the balls to hit and not the imaginary ghost ball center point. Its off in space anyway.
In this instance since the ghost ball size would change, so would it center and so will the imaginary aiming point.
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Pool balls are 2 1/4". Where does 2 1/8" come into play? I would imagine based on your screen name, that's what it is. I've never played snooker or had a table available or know the exact size of the balls.
 
ShootingArts said:
If you aren't comfortable with finding your aimpoint on rail or cushion point from behind the cue ball, ...
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I find that the easiest and most reliable way to memorize the aimpoint on a rail is to think of it as a fractional point between two diamonds. Typically 1/10 precision is good, or if e.g. it's exactly 1/3 of the way I just remember that instead of 3/10 or 4/10. Or if it's less than 1/10 from a diamond, you can think of it in millimeters instead of 1/20, or whatever works the best for you. But whatever scale and precision you are working with, using the diamonds in this way means it's impossible to lose the point or mix it up since a single number/fraction is very easy to find, and very easy to memorize.
 
SeniorTom said:
I just started reading the book Pleasures of Small Motions, and it appears that the best way to shoot is from the subconscious mind. After extensive practicing Through Time, making shots should come natural without much thinking about them. The more we use the conscious mind to think about things like a ghost ball, a line right through the center of the object ball to the pocket, and so on, these conscious thoughts interfere with the subconscious thought thoughts that are so capable of success. It's like driving a car 10 miles down the highway and not realizing how you got from the starting point to 10 miles later because it's all done pretty much subconsciously. Individuals drive a car so much with success that the subconscious mind can take over and do the job. It is the same in pool the more we rely on the subconscious to pot balls I think the better off we will be. The more we rely on conscious thoughts the more they interfere with all the subconscious thoughts that we have practice so extensively. With all this being said, I just know how and what angle to put on a ball by looking and just let it happen. I don't like using a ghost ball or the likes, because I have pocketed so many balls from every angle I should know how to do it without extensive thinking.
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Agreed. Visualization is key. When it comes to aiming, conscious methods and thoughts are a good starting point, but every player who isn't already letting their subconscious have the final say in their aim should, from time to time, give it another try, perhaps stick with it for a while and see if you have cumulated enough experience for it to finally give you satisfying results.
 
skiergd011013 said:
Thoughts about this rail first system? Anyone have anything better?
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That seems to work.

It's basically how I do it on that type of a shot but I imagine shooting the 8 directly into the center of the pocket at it's contact point (as if there were no blockers), then just parallel shift that line over to the rail (90 or 180 are basically the same, just different ways to think). Then shoot the CB along that shifted line with center ball or a touch high. Basically just visualizing the ideal shot line to put the 8 in center of the corner pocket then shifting it parallel into the other rail. Basically I am trying to get the CB to hit the rail at the same angle I would ideally hit the 8 with no blockers.

I hope this makes sense, it's been a long day!:sleep:

I'm not really imagining anything but the shot line parallel shifted but I suppose you could imagine a ghost ball where your chalk is and said ghost ball being shot into a ghost pocket. I think it's the same thing just different ways to get to it.

Personally I don't like using my stick to visualize angles and distances. I'd rather use my eyes. I think sticks can add in perception errors or optical illusions. It's best for me to look at it and execute it how I see the shot happening. I think your method is great to teach what is going on but I also think once you understand them you don't really need to measure them out. It's easier to just visualize.
 
I use both a system and a guess. The system is the 'parallel aiming system'. After completing the parallel system aim I go to my 'side to side' guess.

Let me explain; take a straight in shot. Aim the cue ball to object ball, to the pocket. That completes the parallel part. Now for the guessing part. Pivot the aim a little to one side of the pocket and then pivot to the other side of the pocket. After doing this once or twice you should feel comfortable enough to shoot. Quite a few folks have tried this due to problems with straight-ins. It seems to work.
 
boogieman said:
That seems to work.

It's basically how I do it on that type of a shot but I imagine shooting the 8 directly into the center of the pocket at it's contact point (as if there were no blockers), then just parallel shift that line over to the rail (90 or 180 are basically the same, just different ways to think). Then shoot the CB along that shifted line with center ball or a touch high. Basically just visualizing the ideal shot line to put the 8 in center of the corner pocket then shifting it parallel into the other rail. Basically I am trying to get the CB to hit the rail at the same angle I would ideally hit the 8 with no blockers.

I hope this makes sense, it's been a long day!:sleep:

I'm not really imagining anything but the shot line parallel shifted but I suppose you could imagine a ghost ball where your chalk is and said ghost ball being shot into a ghost pocket. I think it's the same thing just different ways to get to it.

Personally I don't like using my stick to visualize angles and distances. I'd rather use my eyes. I think sticks can add in perception errors or optical illusions. It's best for me to look at it and execute it how I see the shot happening. I think your method is great to teach what is going on but I also think once you understand them you don't really need to measure them out. It's easier to just visualize.
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I do think that eyes unaided avoids possible complications. However I saw some guys traveling together checking or double checking angles with their sticks. Transferring lines or angles as you say. I tried it a few days later and it does give you an exact point on the object ball to shoot at. I didn't take up the habit but I think it could bail me out when my eyes are acting contrary sometimes. I can add a couple words of gibberish down in New Orleans to go with the stick waving and tell people it is voodoo!

Some of these tricks come in handy for a beginner, might come in handy in waning years too.

Hu
 
dr_dave said:
For those interested in a full presentation of the system, including how to make adjustments for speed and for the OB distance from the rail, see:


Here's a useful 1-page handout that summarizes all the important info. And here's one of the videos from the resource page:

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skiergd011013 said:
dave, at 2:48, do you always find the midpoint, and then extend that line *INTO* the pocket?
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Yes. FYI, that system, along with how to make all required adjustments, is covered in detail here:

 
hang-the-9 said:
It's not really BS, it's just an unschooled player not knowing how to quantify or explain how aiming and shooting works. A lot of bar bangers I know can pocket balls, but they are totally incapable of teaching others because they have no idea of what methods and steps they take to play position of make a ball. It's like that story about a centipede that was asked how it was able to move all the legs without messing up, it thought about it and could not walk again. With a lot of blind repetition eventually someone will get better at a task without knowing why, but they will almost never get close to the level of someone that really understands and gets the process they use to get there.

At the end of it all, everyone uses the ghost ball method because that is the only way to hit the object ball to make it. How you tell yourself to get the cueball there is the learning and execution part. Guessing where to hit the ball is just guessing where you are putting the ghost ball.
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Sorry, but I don't use a ghost ball. Never have and never will.
I don't think I'm deluding myself. Just honestly don't use one.
I apply contact points, not balls. More precise and less baggage. Lol.
Please don't ask me to explain it further bcuz I won't. I save my secrets for those I deem worthy. Lol.
 
ShootingArts said:
I do think that eyes unaided avoids possible complications. However I saw some guys traveling together checking or double checking angles with their sticks. Transferring lines or angles as you say. I tried it a few days later and it does give you an exact point on the object ball to shoot at. I didn't take up the habit but I think it could bail me out when my eyes are acting contrary sometimes. I can add a couple words of gibberish down in New Orleans to go with the stick waving and tell people it is voodoo!

Some of these tricks come in handy for a beginner, might come in handy in waning years too.

Hu
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Pocketing JuJu Hu!!🤣🤣👍🏻
 
shooter_Hans said:
When I approach a shot I look where I need to hit the object ball and how the impact affects the cue ball. I bend down look, stroke it a few times and shoot.

No looking at ghost ball or lines or any other principle applied.

I call it the guessing system but what system would this be? I don't use any other principles except to see where I need to hit and hit it.
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I am on the guessing system! Since the speed that you hit a bank shot drastically changes where you must hit the rail to make it, I really don`t see any other system. For me it is a guess.
 
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