I must be getting old, in my old age. We have a LOT of players in my area, with small diameter tips. LOTS of under 11mm tips. I find them more time consuming & generally a pain in the ass, to work on the tips & the ferrules. Starting today any tip job on a 12mm or smaller has a BASE price of $12 (my regular price is $8). Anything under 11mm can be done by someone else, because I won't do them any more. There I've gotten that off of my chest & I feel better. HAVE A GREAT DAY...JER
My price for small tips
- Thread starter BLACKHEARTCUES
- Start date
Purdman
Banned
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Now all ya got to do is stick to your guns. I don't blame ya. I also hate it when they give you the tip that flew off and want you to re-use it. I am talking LePros man. How freeking cheep can you get. I have a hard time realigning the dam things up perfect. I would much rather have some edge to trim. I remember paying $50 to have a Moori put on my cue at the US Open in 2001. Today they look at ya like your crazy if you ask for $25 or $35. What gives here?
Purdman
How about giving pool lessons to those who think they need 11 MM tips?
They obviously have no clue.
They obviously have no clue.
Purdman
Banned
JoeyInCali said:
Joey, I know a guy who had 11 mm shafts made for all his high end cues. Black Boar, Gina, you name it. He was one miscueing MF. After they all went south on him, he changed. I could have a very nice cue with the cash he spent on shafts. Speaking of nice cues
. How ya doing today!Purdman
It's 200 degrees here today.Purdman said:Joey, I know a guy who had 11 mm shafts made for all his high end cues. Black Boar, Gina, you name it. He was one miscueing MF. After they all went south on him, he changed. I could have a very nice cue with the cash he spent on shafts. Speaking of nice cues
Purdman
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
I also get a lot of smaller diameter tips and ferrules but quite a few of them are snooker cues. I keep both in stock from 10mm up and (other than the Elks which are a pain to install) don't have much of a problem. I can see your frustration if you are trying to install 14mm tips on a 11mm shaft.
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Great Post, I also have come to the same conclusion. Where I am located I will get $10 for a Le-pro, Triangle. or an Elk Master. I normally charge $20 for a Ferrule replacement with one of the above tips. Last week, I had a guy come in with a 11.4 mm ferrule that had a broken tenon, when I told the individual that it would cost $35 to drill the and in cert a new Tenon. The Guy got mad, he just could not under stand why it cost more. This was the last straw for me I also will not work on anything smaller than 12mm in the futture.
Craig
I do a lot of billiard cues and most are small. Small tips are common, has nothing to do with someone not knowing any better. I can't imagine why I would not re-tip someone's cue because it has a small tip and I don't know why I would even charge more.JoeyInCali said:
Cuemaker's Worth
From what I have seen in this industry there are too many cue repair persons that work for nothing. They don't seem to appreciate the investment they have in education, equipment, overhead, supplies and labor. We should all be paid what we are worth. Lets just look at replaing a broken off tenon:
First a new tenon must be made from scratch - I use seasoned hard maple because I don't want it to shrink. I make it two inches long - 5/16 inch in diameter.
Next I face off the old wood until I get a perfect face. Then I center drill the end of the cue and then I drill a 1/4 inch hole 1 inch deep. Next I bore the hole to .512 dia. (5/16 inch). I mix some 2 part exoxy and use a small stick to get some into the hole making sure it is well soaked. I apply some epoxy to the tenon I made and work it onto the hold until it hits the bottom. I use the tail stock to apply some pressure to the end of the tenon until it sets (I wait about 15 minutes on 5 minute epoxy). I machine off the excess glue and make sure I have a perfectly faced shoulder.
I install a ferrule which is another whole process and then I apply the tip. All together I have over an hour of macnine time in this operation. I know there are shorter ways to accomplish this but I think this is the best way for this kind of repair. I charge $10.00 to drill a hole. $10.00 to bore a hole. $5.00 to face the shaft for ferrule installation and $40.00 to install a new melamine ferrule. I charge $10.00 to make and install the new tenon.
I charge $15.00 extra to install a tip: LePro - Triangle - Elkmaster; $25.00 to install a Layered Tip and $50.00 to install a Genuine Moori tip.
If they had bought an American made custom cue to begin with they would not be having to have all this repair work done at all. I have never had to replace one of my tenons.
That is how I see it.
manwon said:
From what I have seen in this industry there are too many cue repair persons that work for nothing. They don't seem to appreciate the investment they have in education, equipment, overhead, supplies and labor. We should all be paid what we are worth. Lets just look at replaing a broken off tenon:
First a new tenon must be made from scratch - I use seasoned hard maple because I don't want it to shrink. I make it two inches long - 5/16 inch in diameter.
Next I face off the old wood until I get a perfect face. Then I center drill the end of the cue and then I drill a 1/4 inch hole 1 inch deep. Next I bore the hole to .512 dia. (5/16 inch). I mix some 2 part exoxy and use a small stick to get some into the hole making sure it is well soaked. I apply some epoxy to the tenon I made and work it onto the hold until it hits the bottom. I use the tail stock to apply some pressure to the end of the tenon until it sets (I wait about 15 minutes on 5 minute epoxy). I machine off the excess glue and make sure I have a perfectly faced shoulder.
I install a ferrule which is another whole process and then I apply the tip. All together I have over an hour of macnine time in this operation. I know there are shorter ways to accomplish this but I think this is the best way for this kind of repair. I charge $10.00 to drill a hole. $10.00 to bore a hole. $5.00 to face the shaft for ferrule installation and $40.00 to install a new melamine ferrule. I charge $10.00 to make and install the new tenon.
I charge $15.00 extra to install a tip: LePro - Triangle - Elkmaster; $25.00 to install a Layered Tip and $50.00 to install a Genuine Moori tip.
If they had bought an American made custom cue to begin with they would not be having to have all this repair work done at all. I have never had to replace one of my tenons.
That is how I see it.
macguy said:
I have to kind of agree here. If all you carry are 14mm tips then small diameter ferrules can definitly be a pain but then that is your fault for not having the correct materials, not the customers fault for having a smaller shaft. Of coarse on the other hand, if you don't want to carry smaller tips and refuse to work on them is totally your option. I have a box of both 11 and 12 mm tips in Elk Masters and LePros just for these situations. It is especially rough installing Elks in these smaller sizes as they need to be pressed to start with and then they are big as a pancake.
I've been thinking about charging extra to install LePros. There are so many rotten ones in a box that it is very time consuming installing a LePro tip sometimes 4 or 5 times to get a good one. About 2 months ago I opened a new box, installed 7 bad ones in a row and then just tossed the entire box and opened a new one. They only cost 13 or 14.00 a box but a lot of time is wasted reinstalling tips over and over to give a customera good tip.
Dick
I hate when they bring their own tip and ask "how much to install". Same price....my tip or yours...you are paying for my talent not the tip.
Well, in the old days when I used to do tips, I would refuse this kind of works. The worst part about doing some unknown tip from a customer is sometimes I do not even know what was it that they were giving me to install. Some of these tips could be very poorly made and they may delaminate real soon. It is just a waste of my time when I could not even do anything to make sure the tip I spent a lot of time and effort to install would play well for the customers.Varney Cues said:
Sometimes, someone would give me something which they were told was Moori but was really not, and then they would complain that it did not play like a Moori.
I still cannot understand why anyone would spend 1000+ on a cue and then tries to save 20 on a tip job by using some cheap tip and worst yet, getting someone to do it by hand. Some of the jobs they have on their high end cues are so terrible(the ferrule was scratched, it was cut much shorter, there are glues everywhere, the facing is off, the ferrule is no longer round due to being sanded by hand...) that the value of the cue would certainly drop much more than what they have saved.
Exactly....
Exactly.
I pick up these cues and they play terrible. Luckly I have enough exprience to know that the tip makes a huge difference.
My latest one, had an impossible hard tip on it and shaft taper was poor. I sent it to Rick Howard and he replaced tip and tapered shaft to his specs. Now it plays awesome. He tapered shaft and retipped with Lepro for grand total of $25.
Unbelievable.
Ken
nipponbilliards said:
Exactly.
I pick up these cues and they play terrible. Luckly I have enough exprience to know that the tip makes a huge difference.
My latest one, had an impossible hard tip on it and shaft taper was poor. I sent it to Rick Howard and he replaced tip and tapered shaft to his specs. Now it plays awesome. He tapered shaft and retipped with Lepro for grand total of $25.
Unbelievable.
Ken
Varney Cues said:
I love when they bring their own tips. It removes much of my responsibility for how it plays and lasts.
Charge a standard fee for putting a tip on, then add the cost of the tip to that, and you have a fair price for a tip. If you charge $15 for a lepro, a moori should cost no more than $25 or 30. Gouging people gives all of us a bad name.
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Sheldon said:
I bring in my tip to my local cue repair guy all the time. I order from atlas and my buddy puts them on for me for 5 bucks. He sees no problem with it and actually prefers it this way. Like Sheldon said, he takes no responsibility in any tip defect. So It's cheaper for me and less stress on him. I see no problem with it.
Tony
Arnot Wadsworth said:
I also use the same procedure that you have outlined, except I also thread the tenon and the cavity in the shaft and screw the tenon and shaft together. I use old house cues to make my tenons. I also agree that 5/16 is the standard diameter of the tenon, but when you are dealing with a 11.4 mm ferrule it will not work so you must improvise. That is why I will not do any more repairs on cues with small shafts. The prices charged for cue repairs will vary from location to location. If you attempted to charge the prices you quoted above where I am located you would go broke, so your statement about people not being paid for their work is all based on local economics more than anything else. For the work involved and the materials used, I think that your prices are inflated. I own and operate a Pool Hall in Lakewood, Washington. I have a fully stocked billiard pro-shop and I do all cue repairs, from Tips to complete refinish work out of my Pool Hall. I do very well locally due to the quality of my work. Thanks for your insight and have a great day.
Craig
Sheldon said:
I charge 10.00 to install a standard tip ( Elk Master, LePro, Triangle or W/B). I include cleaning, polishing and removing dents and also include guaranteeing the tip not coming off for life. I will not reinstall a tip that has come off as they are to hard to get aligned properly. If some one brings me in a tip to install I charge my normal 10.00 but if the tip comes off I replace with a standard tip.
Dick
Sheldon said:
This is so true specially when a customer wants a tip that I don't personally prefer and have in stock... I tell them either to purchase their own tip or I'll buy it one time for that repair job with the corresponding charges... this happens when they ask for a Lepro or Masters