My review of Diamond Pro/Am table

Mark Griffin said:
I realize I am biased-but that does not alter the facts. The ONLY reason I affiliated with Diamond is because of the quality and committment to pool. The same cannot be said about Brunswick. I honestly do not feel you or anyone can 'spew off a bunch of facts and figures' - because the facts favor Diamonds materials.

It usually comes down to personal preference -and that is fine. But to compare imported rubber to artemis is ridiculous. Brunswick rubber probably costs $25 a set-artemis is over $150. Artemis has been a standard for years and with no known failures - please try to say the same for any other imported rubber.

I really did not come here looking to argue - but to state that one is better because of 'feel' is just an opinion. But the facts are that Diamond maintains better quality at the manufacturing level. And they are more than willing to make changes if it improves the product.

All the other manufacturers had their opportunity to make a better table - most elected to make a cheaper table. Sometimes quality costs more and sometimes it doesn't. A Diamond usually costs less to buy than a Brunswick...but that is because Diamond is factory direct. A NEW ProAm (with Dymondwood rails) is less than $5,000. Tournament used ones are quite a bit less. Diamond does not charge an additional $1,000 for pro-cut pockets like Brunswick does.

Anyhow, enuff rambling. I support Diamonds - and I am biased. I also respect Brunswick for what they have done for pool. But they have no excuse for the rubber problems they have had over the years - it is because of trying to buy a much cheaper part.

Mark Griffin

Mark,

What is strange to me is why the rails/rubber on some of the older Gold Crowns (I's and II's) remain good for a lifetime and the newer Gold Crowns have more problems. I have seen GCI's in the same poolroom for over 40 years and still playing good. In fact I prefer the I's and II's to the newer Crowns for playability.
 
Mark Griffin said:
I realize I am biased-but that does not alter the facts. The ONLY reason I affiliated with Diamond is because of the quality and committment to pool. The same cannot be said about Brunswick. I honestly do not feel you or anyone can 'spew off a bunch of facts and figures' - because the facts favor Diamonds materials.

It usually comes down to personal preference -and that is fine. But to compare imported rubber to artemis is ridiculous. Brunswick rubber probably costs $25 a set-artemis is over $150. Artemis has been a standard for years and with no known failures - please try to say the same for any other imported rubber.

I really did not come here looking to argue - but to state that one is better because of 'feel' is just an opinion. But the facts are that Diamond maintains better quality at the manufacturing level. And they are more than willing to make changes if it improves the product.

All the other manufacturers had their opportunity to make a better table - most elected to make a cheaper table. Sometimes quality costs more and sometimes it doesn't. A Diamond usually costs less to buy than a Brunswick...but that is because Diamond is factory direct. A NEW ProAm (with Dymondwood rails) is less than $5,000. Tournament used ones are quite a bit less. Diamond does not charge an additional $1,000 for pro-cut pockets like Brunswick does.

Anyhow, enuff rambling. I support Diamonds - and I am biased. I also respect Brunswick for what they have done for pool. But they have no excuse for the rubber problems they have had over the years - it is because of trying to buy a much cheaper part.

Mark Griffin

Stupid question- Are we talking real rubber here (Latex)-like from a rubber tree?
 
I bought two for my room

I would never allow my long standing biased for Gold Crowns to get in the way of progress. That being said, these Diamond tables are a product of someone who is obsessed with perfection. Attention has been paid to every detail and I understand that the designer and manufacturer are always looking for ways to improve the table. Frankly, I don?t know how they make money.

I am most surprised by the engineering of the ?perfect relationship between all the measurable components of a pocket?. The pocket opening size is just a first step in ?assessing a pocket?.

When it is all said and done, the market will choose.
 
cardiac kid said:
To the contrary, I would love to play on your table. A friend of mine in Vegas has an Olhausen with the tight pockets. Try as he might, he has yet to beat me on his table. Nine ball or banks!

Lyn

if you friend has tight pockets than its probably far different from a stock olhausen.
 
cardiac kid said:
To the contrary, I would love to play on your table. A friend of mine in Vegas has an Olhausen with the tight pockets. Try as he might, he has yet to beat me on his table. Nine ball or banks!

Lyn

I am a "B" level player on a bad day and on my focused moments I dip a bit into the "A" bracket. But some times I think my pockets are the kiss of death. I miss shots at speed all the time. If I catch the rail before the pocket at all even the nipple I am sure to rattle them. Mind you I paid good money to have them tighten up. Extending the sub rails and replacing the almost new rubber. All Olhausens I've played on have had "Pocket rattle issues". I would love to have a good player give my table a whirl and give me there unbiased opinion.

I have had this discussion before about Olhausen pocket opening angles and shelf depth. So I am not sure which is the culprit. If I visually compare a GC-3 (league tables) and mine my shelf is not as deep so it must be the pocket angles.

But I will say this if I spend 30mins on my table before league night the GC's are like buckets. :thumbup:
 
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I have yet to be asked to make a Diamond play like a Brunswick, the requests are always to make "My Brunswick" play more like a Diamond...LOL

Glen
 
Mark Griffin said:
... But to compare imported rubber to artemis is ridiculous. ...

Not to flame but Artemis is also an import -
of much better quality then far east imports.
 
Nostroke said:
Stupid question- Are we talking real rubber here (Latex)-like from a rubber tree?
Latex rubber is not vulcanized and cannot be used for rails. Vulcanized rubber is specially treated to harden so that it is consistent and durable.
 
tjlmbklr said:
I am a "B" level player on a bad day and on my focused moments I dip a bit into the "A" bracket. But some times I think my pockets are the kiss of death. I miss shots at speed all the time. If I catch the rail before the pocket at all even the nipple I am sure to rattle them. Mind you I paid good money to have them tighten up. Extending the sub rails and replacing the almost new rubber. All Olhausens I've played on have had "Pocket rattle issues". I would love to have a good player give my table a whirl and give me there unbiased opinion.

I have had this discussion before about Olhausen pocket opening angles and shelf depth. So I am not sure which is the culprit. If I visually compare a GC-3 (league tables) and mine my shelf is not as deep so it must be the pocket angles.

But I will say this if I spend 30mins on my table before league night the GC's are like buckets. :thumbup:


it's not your shelf depths. It has to do with how soft the cushions are in conjunction with the thin facing.
 
sdbilliards said:
it's not your shelf depths. It has to do with how soft the cushions are in conjunction with the thin facing.

Interesting, that's the first time i heard that. Makes sense though accu-fast cushions are fast and soft.
 
Jay

Jay, the reason why some of the old crowns still bounce great is that they have the "Manhattan" rubber. Its the nuts. Never seen a bad set yet. Pretty strong considering how old the rubber is.
 
Big C said:
Latex rubber is not vulcanized and cannot be used for rails. Vulcanized rubber is specially treated to harden so that it is consistent and durable.

You lost me (not hard to do) - so where does it come from?
 
Star Date 20 08

Nostroke said:
You lost me (not hard to do) - so where does it come from?



Why Vulcan of course, Captain!

Ray
(not a Trekke, but I play one on AZ)
 
Nostroke said:
You lost me (not hard to do) - so where does it come from?
Natural latex comes from the sap of rubber trees. In the early days rubber was harvested in South America. Nowadays rubber comes from plantations in Southeast Asia. Vulcanization of the latex is a process of adding sulfur and applying heat thereby weatherproofing it so that the rubber will not expire. Latex can also be made from petroleum and other chemicals to achieve the desired elasticity. This is known as synthetic latex. There are some good articles about this at wikipedia and ask.com.
 
Well, I have to say that i like the Diamond design way better then the GCIV.

The only thing that i didn't like about the diamonds initially, were when they first came out, and you had those early tables that had such a tight cut of pocket, that you couldn't shoot the cue ball from the spot into the side pocket with confidence. It was that tight.

And then with the smart tables, i didn't like the face that the Aramith ball would get switched out and replaced with the red circle cue ball cause the sensor picked up the red circle better, but then the weight of the cue ball would be different in relation to the set of balls.
I also didn't like the original smart table inner pocket design that if you rifled a ball into it, it would hit the bottom, and bounce right back out and off the table cause it was basically flat. (That particular design flaw cost me a hill hill match that with Jimmy Reid) They have since fixed the problem.

And finally, when they have the table set up, and the rail has a hump (mentioned earlier in this thread) so that you can see the ball on the rail, but when striking the ball, if your not careful, you will hit the bump in the rail and ramp up and over the cue ball or miscue severely.

SO, The rails are cut right now. Nothing IMO is better then a rail that is cut to the pocket size you want. I can't begin to tell people how much money i've lost playing 1 pocket on tables with crappy shim jobs where the divots in the shims cause a pot luck situation where some of the time the ball shoots downtable, and some of the time, it shoots uptable, on simple cross corner banks that would never be a problem on a diamond.

The table design is nice. I don't ever have to worry about gouging a huge groove in my shaft because the chunk of metal around the pocket is sticking up or not flush, cause there IS no metal around the pocket.

Plus, i NEVER have balls falling out of the table. I dunno if it's the GCIV specifically, but since i've been playing on them, i ALWAYS have balls falling out of the rails when i shoot something in the side pocket.
ALWAYS.
It really starts to get on ones nerve when you realize that it's not a fluke, but rather, is some issue with the table when you might have to walk around and pick up a ball that is on the floor, 10-15 times in a 2 hour session.

My only complaint is the rail speed.

Maybe that's cause the majority of times i ever played on one was a tournament situation where it was either wet or iced cold from the air conditioning or both.
But i don't know if the hump in the rail has been taken care of or not, whether they shave them down or if the rails installed are different somehow in that aspect.

So in the grand scheme of things, i would say that the evolution of the Diamond table has had some hiccups along the way, but that's to be expected with any new product.

Diamond is IMO the far superior product.
If i could manage to get the rail speed down, i would have no complaints.

But a bouncy rail is WAY better then a dead one.
At least you can move.

Just like when my buddy was playing on a table at the Boston Billiard Club in Danbury Conn., where he had a pretty steep cut shot on a ball close to the bottom rail and had to go uptable to the other end rail for position, (mind you now, he already had found out exactly how slow the rails were playing and was trying not to self destruct) so anyway, he CRUSHED the shot, and cut the ball in.
On any other table, the ball would have gone up and down maybe 3 times if not more, length of the table.
But that's not what happened.
It hit the rail, and came off about a FOOT. (not due to any spin)
A FOOT on a maybe 120-degree angle cut shot at worst.

Diamond has come a long way, and fully deserve all the credit they get.
 
sdbilliards said:
if you friend has tight pockets than its probably far different from a stock olhausen.

The rail rubbers and the pocket dimensions were determined at purchase. The table was not re-built in house. Every other Olhausen I've seen had pockets like bushel baskets including those used at the May BCA pro events in past years!

Lyn
 
My Review

I've owned a GC IV, Gabriels, and now a Diamond Proam. Of course my Proam is a 7', so I believe it has different rubber than the 9'.

At any rate I like the Proam best so far. Of course I just put it up 4 hours ago and I'm high on the "got a new table" buzz. The GC was a nice table and played great. I have no real complaints. The looks of the GC just bore me a bit, no big deal. The Gabriels was probably the most sturdy. That thing weighed a ton. My only complaint with it was the pockets were buckets, but the deep shelf made it play a little tougher than you would expect a table with that sized pockets to play.

So far I like the Proam a lot. The appearance is great. I personally love the Diamond wood, especially with two little kids that are pretty tough on things. It looks killer in my opinion. The matching light is very cool too.

I haven't noticed the skirts or legs getting in my way at all yet, with the limited number of racks I've played so far. I'm only about 5'8" though.

It seems to bank fine...I'm missing them same as always:wink:

It's construction is very heay. That one piece slate was not fun to move...at all. I can't imagine the 9' piece...count me out.

The ball return is fast, but not really all that quiet. I was just shooting and my wife was upstairs (right above) trying to go to sleep. She thought I was moving something it was making so much noise. She hears everything though, it's not that bad. When reaching in for the ball I bumped them to see what the originally poster was talking about. They do roll back but come back quick too. I don't see a problem there. Ball storage does suck but I'll just buy a wall mount one, they add character to the room.

Oh, don't worry Bigtruck...I'm still in the raffle!
 
My only issue with diamonds is the same as a previous poster--the rails seem higher than other tables, making shooting off the rail extremely punishing. The slight curve to the wood too makes every shot from agains the rail at a slight jacked-up angle. Maybe I'm just too used to slightly friendlier tables, but those Diamonds seem almost prohibitive to me.
 
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